Never change Dave
PCF Group Chip Buys & Advice (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter mnebesny
- Start date
You have an odd and somewhat extended way of saying goodnight. Just sayin'.
A group of people put their money together to buy chips. Sounds like a group buy. I dont understand the necessity for verbal gymnastics.
To the OP: Jeremy Irons tells it like it is. Just silence!
Because when the boat chips happened people still believed in community.
Don't worry though there is plenty of salt to go around - and it does!
Kyle
Full House
Why are you sour? You got your custom chips. You are part of the "community" why didn't you invite the entire "community" to your buy? I don't give a damn but that is a pretty hypocritical.
I am not sour just explaining why there is more hate for the boat buy than any other.
There was a true belief in community before that.
There is a lot of truth in this...
The reason why the boat chips created this big stink was because of the choice of participants, the size of the orders, the way these were obtained and the fact that PCF actively supported the NAGB by creating a secret forum for these participants(thus rendering the other members to second tier). To add insult to injury, many chips were (quickly) flipped by members that never had the intention to keep the chips or bought them with the specific intent to flip them asap. And let us not forget the shameless creativity some showed to really suck out the most value from these flips & auctions.
Besides that, many OG sets were sold before main forum was aware of the NAGB's...those dropped in value after the word/pictures got out.
So plenty of the second tier members got stung twice...
You can not filter down all the bad to one person....but many showed their real colors (good & bad).
The (small) community many/some believed we had, died after the NAGB....a lot of OG members left, gone silent or only posting via private chat....but also a lot of new members joined. Some of those would have loved the old community but many other fit the current culture.
I don't have personal issues with any member, sponsor or owner over here.... but the only reason i'm still here is because a handful of members & sponsors.
If it helps clarify, I think that person’s PCF handle rhymes with melonvest.
The guys who got in on the boat chips definitely knew what it would do to the community if most people were excluded.
The guys that flipped their boat chips for massive profit definitely knew how their greed would affect the community.
Yet everyone went ahead and did what they did. Which is fine. It’s their choice.
But let’s not pretend how much these decisions cost us here at PCF. The damage that was done to the community will last for years. It sucks.
The guys that flipped their boat chips for massive profit definitely knew how their greed would affect the community.
Yet everyone went ahead and did what they did. Which is fine. It’s their choice.
But let’s not pretend how much these decisions cost us here at PCF. The damage that was done to the community will last for years. It sucks.
Plenty of those involved would not give a flying fuck about the community....that's one of the reasons why things went south.
If the boat chips were bought by longtime members that showed for years they do care about the community...not many chips would have been flipped or these would have been sold at acceptable margins....MANY members showed that kind of kindness pre-NAGB/CT times.
Now you have Dave being the voice of the NAGB (or at least the only one giving more insight), he can justify HIS actions but we all know too much happend to call this a succes (or NAGB because it was).
After the boat chips entered the market, things changed...and members did things that would gotten a lifetime ban on CT (supported by the whole community...remember Silks
).Now...there is no shame anymore and people will go to any extend to reach their goal...but who is to blame if people made +$10.000 on boat sale ventures.
RichMahogany
Straight Flush
Only got through a page and a half before I remembered how boring and dead this topic should be.
Yawn
Yawn
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
I will just say that I have only been here a year so I have no salty taste in my mouth. I have found a sense of community through PMs with some members who do hold a sense of community. That was more than I expected when I joined and it has kept me here.
@mnebesny, you hit a touchy subject with some members but don’t let it discourage you. Also, these “direct buys“ from Paulson are difficult to pull off and require money, time, connections, discretion, etc. and can result in large profits and also can generate animosity so there is no incentive for those pursuing them to involve extra people. So don’t expect any invites soon. The last couple “direct buys” involved one to few members (Big Top Poker, Harlequin, Sunset Beach, etc). Don’t let that discourage you. There are plenty of chips that become available in the Classifieds or every couple months in the vendor section from Hold’em Poker, The Chip Room, etc. Just realize this is a hobby of assembling sets, not a buying club or a store. It takes time. Take your time and do your research. If you don’t enjoy the pursuit and the hunt then this may not be the hobby for you.
@mnebesny, you hit a touchy subject with some members but don’t let it discourage you. Also, these “direct buys“ from Paulson are difficult to pull off and require money, time, connections, discretion, etc. and can result in large profits and also can generate animosity so there is no incentive for those pursuing them to involve extra people. So don’t expect any invites soon. The last couple “direct buys” involved one to few members (Big Top Poker, Harlequin, Sunset Beach, etc). Don’t let that discourage you. There are plenty of chips that become available in the Classifieds or every couple months in the vendor section from Hold’em Poker, The Chip Room, etc. Just realize this is a hobby of assembling sets, not a buying club or a store. It takes time. Take your time and do your research. If you don’t enjoy the pursuit and the hunt then this may not be the hobby for you.
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Eloe2000
Straight Flush
Y’all always argue over what “group buy” means when it always really seemed to me you should be calling it a “direct buy”. When people discuss these things I think they are really trying to discuss the purchase itself, not who was involved.
Yeah, I don’t think there’s any real point to the group buy versus not a group buy argument. I just find it funny that some people believe it is objectionable to refer to these purchases by groups as group buys.
Not a Group Buy
I think I've heard that phrase before, I wonder who said it...?
I think I've heard that phrase before, I wonder who said it...?
I just think it's misleading, given the common usage of -- and dedicated forum for -- the term 'group buy'. If the Star chips had been a true group buy, there would have been a group buy thread. Same for the BTP chips, or the SB chips, or dozens of other private purchases of chips (some later resold here, some not) that were never listed in the group buy forum, and thus are not referred to as 'group buy' chips -- even though they were purchased in bulk by more than one person -- sometimes direct (whatever that means), sometimes not.
To be excluded from a group buy is generally not acceptable, as one of the primary features of a group buy is open participation. Restricting the number of participants in a private purchase is pretty much the norm, at least in every single one I've ever seen or heard of (and there have been many). There are significant differences between the two, and for the sake of clarity and not confusing new members, worth noting imo.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I guess it's about defining a term, isn't it?
I think of a Group Buy as something that is publicly posted for anyone in the community to get in on. Group Buys are done for the benefit of the community, and nobody profits unless a professional artist is used (then only the artist turns a profit).
Boat chips were done discreetly. NAGB.
Harlequin, House of Truman, and a few others were done for the owners, and just the owners. NAGB.
Sunset Beach and Big Top were done with one motive, ass-raping profit. NAGB.
ChipRoom sales, and the occasional brilliant casino buy-out are done to get nice chips affordably into the community, but for a profit. They declare themselves vendors. NAGB.
I don't see why some people want to argue that any of these are group buys. They are not. Just because it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, does not mean that you won't go to jail for murder when you shoot a man dressed like Donald Duck.
I think of a Group Buy as something that is publicly posted for anyone in the community to get in on. Group Buys are done for the benefit of the community, and nobody profits unless a professional artist is used (then only the artist turns a profit).
Boat chips were done discreetly. NAGB.
Harlequin, House of Truman, and a few others were done for the owners, and just the owners. NAGB.
Sunset Beach and Big Top were done with one motive, ass-raping profit. NAGB.
ChipRoom sales, and the occasional brilliant casino buy-out are done to get nice chips affordably into the community, but for a profit. They declare themselves vendors. NAGB.
I don't see why some people want to argue that any of these are group buys. They are not. Just because it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, does not mean that you won't go to jail for murder when you shoot a man dressed like Donald Duck.
I have to say Dave that I understand your point of view now much better than I did before, so thank you for that. Your definition is much more limited than mine and incorporates some common practices on PCF as limitations on the term. I don’t view public and open participation in a group buy in a thread as being a requirement for something to actually be a group buy. I think we can just agree to disagree on this one.
Only 2 of the examples above are buys that were done explicitly for profit.
And some of the one in the 2 ( Casino buy outs) may have altruistic roots, and compensate the entity buying out the casino. But the majority of the Casino buy outs are a for Profit venture.
For the Other "direct buys" "group buys" "NAGBs" I dont think the intentions were max profit, but if you get a large enough group of people buying something at cost, and someone offers them 8X what they paid. Even if their intention was NOT to sell for profit. Its a tough decision.
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Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I did point out that the casino buys are done for profit. I agree that the motives are somewhat altruistic - Jim sells chips here for far less that he can get on eBay.
I do know that some of the private buys were for max profit. Even a few of the Boat chip buyers were doing so, because they recognised it as an opportunity to make a profit.
My argument is that none of those counts as a "Group Buy."
I like the term @Hornet used. "direct buy"
I also think that assembling a number of people together whether privately or publicly to purchase something. Falls under the exact definition in any language of a "group buy'. But everyone has the right to call it what they want.
I know a few of the chip sets ordered in the Big Top round were personal sets for individuals and are not, and will not be for sale or any other kind of distribution. And were not purchased by any group. They were direct buys for individuals. And definitely NAGB. By any definition in any language.
I also think that assembling a number of people together whether privately or publicly to purchase something. Falls under the exact definition in any language of a "group buy'. But everyone has the right to call it what they want.
I know a few of the chip sets ordered in the Big Top round were personal sets for individuals and are not, and will not be for sale or any other kind of distribution. And were not purchased by any group. They were direct buys for individuals. And definitely NAGB. By any definition in any language.
Although I agree, I have to give credit to @Eloe2000 .
I also feel like this could be a great Judge Judy episode,
Plaintiff says , this is not a group buy.
Judge Judy: So you mean a group of people got together and bought something?
Plaintiff: Yes.
Judge Judy: So you're saying a GROUP of people got together?
Plaintiff: Yes
Judy: And bought something?
Plaintiff: Yes
Judge Judy: ( Rolls eyes) Get out.
Plaintiff says , this is not a group buy.
Judge Judy: So you mean a group of people got together and bought something?
Plaintiff: Yes.
Judge Judy: So you're saying a GROUP of people got together?
Plaintiff: Yes
Judy: And bought something?
Plaintiff: Yes
Judge Judy: ( Rolls eyes) Get out.
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
You or anyone else can take all the credit they want for the low low fee of entry into the next DBNAGB
just sayin’
Ah, so every PCF "For Sale" ad for a set of chips that gets split is a group buy. I see.
If they planned it together before ordering/buying the chips as a group, yes.Ah, so every PCF "For Sale" ad for a set of chips that gets split is a group buy. I see.
Good point ... may need some refining. Strike “third party” and insert “manufacturer or wholesaler.”Ah, so every PCF "For Sale" ad for a set of chips that gets split is a group buy. I see.
you don’t fold that easy in FishPond
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