Tourney WTHC Sanity Check (1 Viewer)

[MillyS]

Hi All

I wanted to off load some extra WTHC chips but before I do, I wanted to check if I have the correct numbers in my tourney set.

25 x 160
100 x 160
500 x 80
1000 x 160
5000 x 40

Total = 600

Will only ever be used in a single table with a T10000 or T20000.

I probably have more chips than I require and want to keep a 600 chip set.

Any tweaks/comments appreciated.

 

[mummel]

Whats your current starting stacks?

 

[btbmason]

That should be more than enough chips for one table, but I'm sure @BGinGA can confirm.

He gave me some advice in my thread below, and I have half as many 500s and 5ks for a single table set of 400 chips at 10k or even 20k starting.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/do-i-need-these-extra-chips.21687/

 

[MillyS]

Whats your current starting stacks?

probably 8/8/4/2/1

 

[links_slayer]

If you're doing 8-8-x-x(-x) starting stacks you only *need* 80xT25 and 80xT100

 

[btbmason]

If you're doing 8-8-x-x(-x) starting stacks you only *need* 80xT25 and 80xT100

If it's for a single table though, 160 will allow for 10 extra full rebuy stacks at 8-8-x-x-x.

Not necessary as change can be made with the same amount of people, but if 600 chips are being kept anyway I don't think it hurts to have them. It also allows for more starting stacks of 12-12-x-x-x.

 

[BGinGA]

I wanted to check if I have the correct numbers in my tourney set.

25 x 160
100 x 160
500 x 80
1000 x 160
5000 x 40

Total = 600

Will only ever be used in a single table with a T10000 or T20000.

That 600 chip set (160/160/80/160/40) will support up to 20 players with up to 20K stacks (8/8/4/7/2). It will also support 10 players with up to 35K stacks (16/16/8/14/3) or 25K stacks with re-buys. Plenty of T1000 and T5000 chips for color-ups in all cases.

Imo, 400 chips is the minimum needed for a decent single table T20K set with sufficient chips for color-ups and re-buys.

10 x 20K starting stacks (12/12/5/6/2):

120 x T25
120 xT100
50 x T500
75 x T1000 (includes 15x for T25/T100 color-ups)
35 x T5000 (includes 5x for T500 color-ups and 10x for re-buys)
---------------
400 total chips. If bumping it up to 600 chips (with no two-table plans, ever), I'd go with 120/120/60//200/100. If you want to retain two-table capability, keep your 600 counts as-is (160/160/80/160/40).


A few other random thoughts and comments:

Typical re-buy rate for a well-structured event is 25-30% of the starting field size (two or three in a 10-player event). If your re-buy rate is higher, it's likely due to either: the buy-in/re-buy cost is too low for the bankrolls involved, the starting stacks are too small in relation to the starting blind levels, the blind levels are overly-aggressive, the re-buy period is too long, or some combination of those factors.

A starting stack of 8/8/4/2/1 is pretty awful. You don't need T5000 chips in a starting stack (especially one as small as 10K), and just two T1000 chips is woefully lacking. 8/8/4/7 works much better, 12/12/5/6 is preferred and works great, eliminating the need for unnecessary change-making which slows down the tournament.

Provided the starting stacks are properly constructed, there is no valid reason to subsequently add more lower denomination chips into play that will just need to be removed again later in the event. That means that color-up and removal of T25 and T100 chips are best handled by T1000 chips (a workhorse chip later on, so more are needed later), and T5000 chips are used for re-buys and for the color-up and removal of the T500 chips. There is no need to use T25 /T100/T500 chips for re-buys or color-ups, as it is highly inefficient and a waste of money on chips that could be better spent elsewhere on the set.

 

[Lil Tuna]

If you wanted to unload a barrel of your 1000s and a barrel of your 500s, let me know.
I'll take them of your hands.

Thanks,

Tuna

 

[MillyS]

That 600 chip set (160/160/80/160/40) will support up to 20 players with up to 20K stacks (8/8/4/7/2). It will also support 10 players with up to 35K stacks (16/16/8/14/3) or 25K stacks with re-buys. Plenty of T1000 and T5000 chips for color-ups in all cases.

Imo, 400 chips is the minimum needed for a decent single table T20K set with sufficient chips for color-ups and re-buys.

10 x 20K starting stacks (12/12/5/6/2):

120 x T25
120 xT100
50 x T500
75 x T1000 (includes 15x for T25/T100 color-ups)
35 x T5000 (includes 5x for T500 color-ups and 10x for re-buys)
---------------
400 total chips. If bumping it up to 600 chips (with no two-table plans, ever), I'd go with 120/120/60//200/100. If you want to retain two-table capability, keep your 600 counts as-is (160/160/80/160/40).


A few other random thoughts and comments:

Typical re-buy rate for a well-structured event is 25-30% of the starting field size (two or three in a 10-player event). If your re-buy rate is higher, it's likely due to either: the buy-in/re-buy cost is too low for the bankrolls involved, the starting stacks are too small in relation to the starting blind levels, the blind levels are overly-aggressive, the re-buy period is too long, or some combination of those factors.

A starting stack of 8/8/4/2/1 is pretty awful. You don't need T5000 chips in a starting stack (especially one as small as 10K), and just two T1000 chips is woefully lacking. 8/8/4/7 works much better, 12/12/5/6 is preferred and works great, eliminating the need for unnecessary change-making which slows down the tournament.

Provided the starting stacks are properly constructed, there is no valid reason to subsequently add more lower denomination chips into play that will just need to be removed again later in the event. That means that color-up and removal of T25 and T100 chips are best handled by T1000 chips (a workhorse chip later on, so more are needed later), and T5000 chips are used for re-buys and for the color-up and removal of the T500 chips. There is no need to use T25 /T100/T500 chips for re-buys or color-ups, as it is highly inefficient and a waste of money on chips that could be better spent elsewhere on the set.

Thanks @BGinGA. Some really good info in there for me to think about. I am going to stick to your suggested 12/12/5/6 starting stacks - makes more sense.

Although I have no plans to host a 2 table tourney (could change in the future), I think retaining that capability with this set is better - its hard to source mint WTHC chips now - I can only imagine it getting more difficult in the years to come.

 

[BGinGA]

Agreed. Having two-table capability is a big bonus for a small set's marketability, and if the chips you'd need for a future add-on are already in short supply......it's probably not gonna get any easier in the future.

 

[hod]

160/160/80 for the first three demons if you want the capability of running a two table tourney. Also fun and satisfying for newer players having more chips in their starting stack I think.

I've never in 15 years of hosting or playing ever run a two table tourney - but can you imagine the awkwardness and embarrassment if the moment came to pass, and the poker chip nerd - who's been through more sets than normal people knew existed - didn't have a set that could accommodate two tables?

And so I always have at least one set that can, just in case....

 

[TexRex]

Generally I agree with BG. Here's a rough formula I'd use for the ratio of chips in a set.

• T25 -- 20-25% of chips (2.5-3x the T500s).
  
• T100 -- 20-25% of chips (2.5-3x the T500s). Notice the first 2 chips are going to be around 50% of your chips. Buying more of the chips you will remove first is too expensive and either means a lot of unnecessary chips, or lots of chips that will see little use.
• T500 -- 7-10% of chips. You should have fewer 500s than any other, so I base the # of other chips in relation to the T500s. See below for what I mean by that.
  
• T1000 -- 20-23% of chips. Should be 2.5-3x the # of 500s and close to the same # of lower chips. Usually after the T25s are out and definitely after the T100s are out, this is your workhorse chip for a while.
  
• T5000 -- 15-18% of chips. Should be 2x the # of 500s.

For even more flexibility, consider adding a T25000. There should be 1-1.5x the # of 500s.

That gives you a great deal of flexibility with plenty of chips if you have at least 12 T25s per player, though you could go as low as 8 T25s per player. Over time, you may change the following:

• Starting stacks, making them bigger
• Starting SB/BB
• # of players. I'd always try to be able to accommodate 2 tables of 10 personally; my current sets are designed for 30 but are very playable with 40.

Most people under-buy the larger chip values and over-buy the lower values. Most have way too many T500s if they are using T1000s.

One place I differ from BG is the T5000 in the starting stack. If your lowest is T25 and you start with T15K or more, I do use T5000 to start. But I definitely agree with him when you start with T10K that the T5000 isn't needed to start. We currently start with 40K and SB/BB of 50/100. We use several T25000s at the end, and if we go to Round 12, we only have T5000 and T25000 on the table, unless we have so many I've brought out the T100000.

The following is how I'd generally do this with T500 =1.

• T500 -- 1
  
• T25000 -- 1.5
  
• T5000 -- 2
  
• T25 -- 2.5 to 3
• T100 -- 2.5 to 3
• T1000 -- 2.5 to 3

General Rules

1. Buy with the idea that you will end up needing to accommodate more players than you currently have.
2. Buy with the idea that you will end up using larger chip stacks than you currently use.
3. Buy with the idea that you might mix things up for some reason. I bought with the idea that we might do a fun night with larger everything on occasion -- start with smallest chip being T100 with 4x the # of starting chips. Sometimes I do that just to get my largest chips in play.

 

[Ishouldbegolfing]

I love the detailed layouts in your replies to MillyS.

I was looking for some suggestions on starting stacks. as well.. I agree, being newer- I overbought $100 and 500 denoms.

 

[Gobbs]

A starting stack of 8/8/4/2/1 is pretty awful. You don't need T5000 chips in a starting stack (especially one as small as 10K), and just two T1000 chips is woefully lacking. 8/8/4/7 works much better, 12/12/5/6 is preferred and works great, eliminating the need for unnecessary change-making which slows down the tournament.

That^^^^^

I absolutely hate more than four colors in play at a time (and I prefer three colors, but that's not always realistic). Of course, if you're playing in a big stack tournament, like a season-ending championship, then it may be necessary if you don't have a huge tournament set, but that's not the case here. Keep the T5000 chip out of the starting stacks.