Why has 7 card stud died out and what did the old timers like so much about the game? (1 Viewer)

upNdown

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It’s not “fun”. There’s no bells or lights.


Also in stud games it’s important to watch your opponents and read into their cards what they are doing.
In holdem you put on sunglasses, headphones, and a hoody so you can ignore all the other players. Fuck them, this is YOUR time.
There’s so much truth to this. And as a result, you can’t multi-table stud. So even if stud had a good online presence (it really doesn’t, outside of the occasional HORSE tournament AFAIK) it’s not like people are likely to be introduced to the game that way, because they’d need to pay attention.
 
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We used to include it in our game rotation, but played it pot limit (and hi lo). It was an absolute sh*t show. The antes making the initial bet bigger combined with the extra round of betting made the game play proportionally bigger than the rest of the games. People were getting crushed in this game. So we bounced it from the rotation. Still play the game sometimes in a limit format but people would much rather see flops.
Saw the same. New players had watched NLHE on TV and learned it at the kitchen table, asking them to bet on that many streets, they have his compulsion to call any bet. Good for money making if you're halfway decent but wasn't even fun.
 

doublebooyah85

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Fantastic first post @frondaro ! There are still a few solid stud players around and IMO those are the players you need to watch out for most! The ones that understand the math of card counting and basically the mentality of the long haul (limit poker). Back before everyone wanted to be Matt Damon sitting across from ole Mr. Malkovich...

Tons of people give the "fame" of NLHE to Moneymaker but I personally believe it was Rounders that came out 5 years before Chris's "big run" ask all your poker buddies what their favorite poker movie is. 70% rounders 28% Casino Royale %2 Baeney and Friends because they have no idea what you are talking about "poker movie" listen we all have "that guy in our games"

Even here on the forum @Lil Tuna and @ChaosRock for example will call 7 stud variants over Omaha variants every time... they know their edge on the game as many have all but forgot the mechanics of Stud playing.

It is not the sit back, drink and jam game that holdem has all but become. You have to keep your head in the game and pay attention the entire time, I would say the majority of poker players today do not want to dedicate that much attention to the game.

Whilst I still play with a group that calls Razz or Follow the Queen, the only true remmanance of stud that most of us play now is "Tahoe Pitch n Roll" I am a huge fan of Hi/low stud, not a huge fan of declare but brings another angle to the game (all stud games in our group are played declare) and the oldest guy in our group is NOT of retirement age yet... so hard to find a game? Sure, but there are still a few around that embrace what poker once was.

Wowzer brotha man, I am pretty sure you can go to any casino and sit down woth $500 and play $1/$2 NLHE, to properly play $100/$200 limit stud would take minimum what $4,000 - $5,000, definitely not the same stakes... but maybe I am missing the point on that one.
Rounders the theatrical release was actually a flop. It became a hit during the dvd release almost years later when the poker boom came.

Hole card cameras (WPT+ESPN) and online poker (party poker) was the reason for the boom (imho).

When moneymaker won it just added gas on fire but the boom was already started. Look at WSOP entries (bc of online play).

In addition, Vegas was having an amazing resurgence with tons of new properties on the strip with big poker rooms. Playboy Palms, Venetian, Palazo, Wynn, Encore, Caesers Towers, etc.
 

timinater

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We used to include it in our game rotation, but played it pot limit (and hi lo). It was an absolute sh*t show. The antes making the initial bet bigger combined with the extra round of betting made the game play proportionally bigger than the rest of the games. People were getting crushed in this game. So we bounced it from the rotation. Still play the game sometimes in a limit format but people would much rather see flops.
May I interest you in spread limit stud? We've switched to that for stud games and it's made it reasonable vs PL/NL Stud as well as added some new dynamics to the game. Blocker bets on 6th street? Yep!
 

krw17

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Don't miss stud at all, never liked it much, but I also remember a very popular game when my parents used to host game nights 40 years ago. 5 card draw! I feel like 5 card draw and Hold'em are much easier for the casual player to pick and participate in.
 

pltrgyst

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Don't miss stud at all, never liked it much, but I also remember a very popular game when my parents used to host game nights 40 years ago. 5 card draw! I feel like 5 card draw and Hold'em are much easier for the casual player to pick and participate in.
Interesting. Growing up, my parents played in a neighborhood three-couple poker game every Saturady night. The only games were 5-card draw, 5 stud, and 7 stud.

I grew up hating 5-card draw. IMO, it's the poker game in which you have the least information to go on and little basis for sound decision-making. 5-card draw low is a little bit better in that regard.

(And 7-stud roll-your-own is definitely a good game...)
 
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Interesting. Growing up, my parents played in a neighborhood three-couple poker game every Saturady night. The only games were 5-card draw, 5 stud, and 7 stud.

I grew up hating 5-card draw. IMO, it's the poker game in which you have the least information to go on and little basis for sound decision-making. 5-card draw low is a little bit better in that regard.

(And 7-stud roll-your-own is definitely a good game...)
Roll your own, does order still matter? Can I choose to keep my first three cards down in exchange for all others being face up? Interesting lil addon to the game, I like it.
 

jpike16

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Less variance in stud. Also it contains a more clear cut gto model, meaning that there is a more defined way to play among the professionals. Because of this, the gap between serious players and recs is wider. Therefore, not as popular among recs and not as profitable for serious grinders.
 

doublebooyah85

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Roll your own, does order still matter? Can I choose to keep my first three cards down in exchange for all others being face up? Interesting lil addon to the game, I like it.
You still need to follow the basic principles.

You get dealt 3 cards, pick one to be shown.

4th card comes face down, again, pick a card to be shown etc.

2 down 4 up 1 down.
 
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You still need to follow the basic principles.

You get dealt 3 cards, pick one to be shown.

4th card comes face down, again, pick a card to be shown etc.

2 down 4 up 1 down.
So I can change which one is faceup? I dont see a choice if Im following the basic principles on 4th street? Is it just preying on people with memory issues that forget about the one I had showing earlier?
 

JFG

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NLHE is more popular because of the Moneymaker effect and the popularity of televised tournaments. In the early 2000’s everyone wanted to experience the excitement of the game and they started playing it in home games. Newbies learned hold’em and preferred that game over others.

I love stud. To me, it’s far superior to hold’em in a social setting. I feel like the players are more relaxed and talk more. There are more variant rules to mix things up. Because position advantage changes with every street, it keeps everyone on their toes.
 

Jimulacrum

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As others have said, Hold'em is easier to learn than Stud. It's also a way better game for a tournament format, which is largely what drove the rapid, overwhelming popularity of NLHE.

Don't underestimate starting with 2 cards instead of 3 as a huge selling point for new players. I'd say it's part of the reason why Blackjack, for example, is more popular than Let It Ride. It's very easy, even as a non-math-oriented person, to see all the possibilities of 2 cards, but much more brain work for 3 cards.

And that's not even getting into tracking the upcards. Casual players want a game where they can drink beer and be half-distracted the whole time, and not have to worry that everyone's laughing at them for drawing to a straight with no outs or failing to raise when they're a board lock. Hold'em is a lot more forgiving in that area (in that you get less information to fuck up with).
 

BGinGA

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So I can change which one is faceup? I dont see a choice if Im following the basic principles on 4th street? Is it just preying on people with memory issues that forget about the one I had showing earlier?
All seven cards are dealt face-down. Once you flip a card face-up, it remains up.

Initially you flip up one of your three dealt down cards, on each successive street you flip up one of your three down cards (except the river -- all three remain down plus the four previously exposed cards).
 
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All seven cards are dealt face-down. Once you flip a card face-up, it remains up.

Initially you flip up one of your three dealt down cards, on each successive street you flip up one of your three down cards (except the river -- all three remain down plus the four previously exposed cards).
Ah thank you very much, got it. Sounds fun
 
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We sometimes play a variant called 7 card no-peek. All seven cards are dealt face down. No players are allowed to look at their cards, one card is revealed from the top of the deck, and the first person to act has to flip their cards until they beat the top card. A round of betting ensues, and the next player to act does the same until they can beat the previous player’s revealed hand, and so on.

It has positives and negatives, but the reveal aspect of the game can be exciting. By the final two or three hands, everyone is invested in the outcome, regardless of whether they are still in the game or not.
 

doublebooyah85

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So I can change which one is faceup? I dont see a choice if Im following the basic principles on 4th street? Is it just preying on people with memory issues that forget about the one I had showing earlier?
No once it’s face up it’s face up.

On 4th street you will be dealt a 4th card. You now have 3 cards face down, 1 card face up. Before your turn to act you will need to pick a card to show face up so you will have 2 down 2 up. Etc.
 

doublebooyah85

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All seven cards are dealt face-down. Once you flip a card face-up, it remains up.

Initially you flip up one of your three dealt down cards, on each successive street you flip up one of your three down cards (except the river -- all three remain down plus the four previously exposed cards).
Yes, but just to clarify not all 7 at same time. Same order as usual.
 

grebe

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The only time I have ever played roll your own, your low hole card was wild. Fuck that. You get 7 cards and you still need a wild card? I just don't get it. Also, 5 of a kind is fantasy camp bullshit.

Playing it as regular stud sounds appealing.
 

DeusEx

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This is such a good game!


33B S Super Stud 8.jpg
 

doublebooyah85

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The only time I have ever played roll your own, your low hole card was wild. Fuck that. You get 7 cards and you still need a wild card? I just don't get it. Also, 5 of a kind is fantasy camp bullshit.

Playing it as regular stud sounds appealing.
Wild cards only make sense in 5 card draws. Sometimes we do wilds with double draw and it’s a riot.
 

grebe

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Wild cards only make sense in 5 card draws. Sometimes we do wilds with double draw and it’s a riot.
One of my groups loves follow the queen. They do 50 buy ins with $2 antes per person (ridiculous, I know). I told them I want to sit out of those and caught a bunch of shit. I said fine, what's the betting structure. They said there isn't one... So now I fold or just open shove if I have a queen in the first 4 cards. It takes 20 minutes to play a hand.
 

legend672

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One of my groups loves follow the queen. They do 50 buy ins with $2 antes per person (ridiculous, I know). I told them I want to sit out of those and caught a bunch of shit. I said fine, what's the betting structure. They said there isn't one... So now I fold or just open shove if I have a queen in the first 4 cards. It takes 20 minutes to play a hand.
Oh I want to sit out of those......I can only imagine what R. Lee Emery would have said if he was in that game.
 

grebe

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Oh I want to sit out of those......I can only imagine what R. Lee Emery would have said if he was in that game.
They are overall really bad though....and fun to play with. I am trying to mold this game into a circus game. I have them hooked on badugi already.
 

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