• PCF is an eBay Partner. If you make a purchase through one of our links, we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you. Thank you for your support!

What is going on here? W/ sales (3 Viewers)

coolguy101 said:
As a relatively new member, I’ll add my $0.02. I got in on the HSI buy, and bought 500 chips. Then I realized that wasn’t enough for what I wanted to do, and bought some more. And bought a few more. I then realized that I needed more of certain denominations to make my set playable. So I went to buy more, only to realize that all the higher denominations were sold out. I checked the for sale forum, and sure enough there they all were at steep prices. It became apparent that members just bought up the chips they figured they could profit off of later, and didn’t really ever actually need those chips. They just bought them to resell them to people like me. Well, I contacted Jim directly and told him what I needed, and lo and behold he had some and sold them to me at the original sale price! Now I have my complete 1,000 piece set. Jim is a stand up guy, as he could see by my previous orders what I was doing, and did me a solid. I was very put off by the apparent profiteering of the forum members. Sure, it’s a free country and they can do what they want, but nevertheless it was a big turn off for me.
Click to expand...
It's a big turn off for a lot of people. And unfortunately, it's a big turn on for some.
 
Pretty good comment @Windwalker :tup:

1) Personally, I’m not shocked at the prices you paid for some of the grail sets you acquired here on PCF. It took me a little while to figure out what set I really like and what I wanted to invest in the hobby (I have an interest in cars & watches so there is always something else I’d rather buy) and with hindsight, I’d pay the same for some of the sets in that list now. You were more “aggressive” from the start, and I would have loved to have little competition for some of these sets lol, but I am fine with that! Collecting is a journey.

2) What I take out from that table is the amount of chips you managed to acquire off forum. That must be hard work. I’ve tried to establish contacts with a collectors club in Cali, collectible shops etc. None of these guys need another buyer they know nothing about, and being based outside the US makes it very hard to build that network. Buying chips here on PCF or eBay is relatively easy. I’ll pay a premium to buy something if there is little work involved. I think that partially explains the price differential.

3) For me, among all the (valid) arguments you make to explain rising prices, this point resonate the most:
Windwalker said:
We are transitioning from just "hobby" to "collectibles" -- where the context of purchase and use have different motivations
Click to expand...

As much as we (new members like me) don’t like to pay the instant premium, this is just a natural evolution of the hobby.
A rising tide lifts all boats. When supply < demand, prices are driven by replacement cost. And when one can no longer afford their first choice, they’ll turn to the next best thing. Hopefully, we don’t all end up with dice chips :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

Alex
 
Last edited:
Windwalker said:
I spent some time thinking through this comment, and similar ones from the last couple weeks. A comment from @Ben8257 comes to mind, though I can't be bothered to find it. Suffice to say, it was a similar sentiment, around a single individual changing market dynamics.

By the way, this isn't a defense or retort, it's more of an examination, and as such, some thoughts as a new hobbyist / collector of how I see things and pricing from my side. I had some time over the last couple days, and was able to pull together some statistics for this examination. What the data tells is an interesting story that might surprise you.

Let's start with some real data. For the purposes of this exercise, I'll limit the data to average price per chip in full sets that I have bought, as opposed to individual racks of a denomination I may have acquired. The one exception to this will be an analysis of what happened with the Bourbon $5s, and why it caused such a tizzy.

Outside of the numbers below, I have lots of other individual and partial set purchases, some which are in line with "market pricing", and others, which are not. An example of the latter is my cost per chip on the BTP $20 cash, which is north of $24 a chip. On the other hand, my cost per chip on the High Sierra $1000 mint chips is less than $8 a chip. In general, I think individual racks of purchases don't really skew purchases that much, and have to be taken in context.

View attachment 607707

Notice a few anomalies. It is ONLY in the case of chips that are either rare, or extremely contained in terms of ownership, that I *chose* to pay a premium to acquire them. Those chips were simply not going to move unless a similar price was paid, period. Maybe they could have been traded after a while, maybe someone would take pity on your long years as a chipper and do you a solid, but for the most part, the anomalies in pricing are within PCF, not outside of it, from people who had to get a fantastic offer in order to feel like they could let go of them.

You'll also notice that even in this shortlist, a significant number of my chips were acquired off-forum, and the prices are almost always better that way. Oh -- and I didn't include any sets that were ONLY acquired off-forum (like the Doc's) because that has no relevance on this thread, the OP, or pricing on PCF.

Here's where this data and perception don't compute: I fail to see a plausible argument that purchasing certain rare items at a premium by an individual could affect the entire pricing landscape of PCF. The RVCLs were simply not available, so it can't be counted; I might argue the same for the Lakeshores and Nevada Lodges. A more plausible explanation is one or more of the following:

- The hobby has reached a "tipping point" and demand far outweighs supply;
- There is a socio-economic disruption in the makeup of the hobbyist, with wealthier people entering the hobby than before;
- We are transitioning from just "hobby" to "collectibles" -- where the context of purchase and use have different motivations.

A note on the Bourbon $5s -- an individual had placed a WTB ad, offering $900 per rack for the chips. I was completely unaware of this, when I made a deal to buy a chipset on PCF for about 40% more. I subsequently found 12 additional racks off-forum, but needed to pay a heavy premium to extricate it, which I was OK with. I think the subsequent noise that ensued was frustration that people were willing to a) sell at stepper prices and b) people (me) were willing to buy at higher prices. Ultimately, people will sell at whatever price someone is willing to pay. For CERTAIN chipsets, I have been (and will continue to be) willing to pay more.

Like I said, this isn't a defense, or explanation. I wanted to examine perception of my own role in market dynamics against real facts.
Click to expand...


Holy Cow Wind!!!

That is VERY Impressive. Those sets could payoff my house!

Such a cool way to get rid of $300K.

Kudos!!!!

Next time im in The USA can i have a look?
 
I blame the introduction of 43mm Paulsons via both Ohio Horseshoe Casino sales. Yeah, there were flippers around before then, but they took those IHC high-denomination chip prices to unheard-of levels of shameless greed.

Subsequent NAGB sellers of 43mm chips merely followed suit, although not nearly to the same degree.
 
tabletalker7 said:
I thought chipping Jesus took less than valuable Paulsons and magically removed all the "weird satanic markings" in the middle of them so we could make those chips into valuable customs ......maybe @Josh Kifer can offer an opinion on this ............
Click to expand...
The book of drill revolutions 7:14 says.... Thee who clears the center of the evil, will have enterace into heaven....
 
This is my final thought on this who chip flipping issue

1. As I mentioned before, the seller has the right to ask for whatever outrageous amount he wants. Others have the right not to pay for it.

2. Chipping is a hobby. It is NOT an investment (or a good one at that) unless you are doing a full scale business like the Chiproom (and seriously, who knows how much money they really make after expenses). For those that feel it's worth the risk to buy a bunch of chips, sit on it, pray for the prices to go up, and flip it for a few extra bucks, good for them. Most people who are good with their money have better ways to invest their time and money.
 
viet rounder said:
This is my final thought on this who chip flipping issue

1. As I mentioned before, the seller has the right to ask for whatever outrageous amount he wants. Others have the right not to pay for it.

2. Chipping is a hobby. It is NOT an investment (or a good one at that) unless you are doing a full scale business like the Chiproom (and seriously, who knows how much money they really make after expenses). For those that feel it's worth the risk to buy a bunch of chips, sit on it, pray for the prices to go up, and flip it for a few extra bucks, good for them. Most people who are good with their money have better ways to invest their time and money.
Click to expand...
I agree you have the right to sell at whatever price you want, but I am one of those guys who thinks of the noobs. I absolutely agree they should take their time and research before buying chips, know the value before the investment... but in this crazy market of way more supply than demand many times people jump to say "I will take it" especially on chips that do not come up very often or considered rare. This is a slippery slope but the whole "no thread crapping" thing I think is BS. We should be able as a community to warn people when prices are way out of wack. I understand that would lead to constant bickering and absolutely we couldn't have that... even if someone knew someone was increasing by a dollar (per rack) over their paid amount everyone would be yelling about it.

There was a recent sale of a barrel of Pick Hobson $100s, the seller wanted $15 a chip and it is publicly know these are chips that I own. The buyer reached out to me asking what the going rate was for minty PH Hundos because multiple people reached out trying to sell after they saw them move for that price. It's sad man, people looking for these chips or a wanted ad saying I will pay the going rate of $8 each would probably produce zero results. But I guess that is just where we are now, max profits or I am not moving chips period!!

How awesome would a Red/Yellow/Green light system be!! Basically a database that kept track of sales prices and based off that data a little traffic light saying green is a great price, yellow being average and red meaning this isn't a good price... proceed with caution! I realize this would never happen just thinking out loud, that would be pretty damn cool!!

Ben
 
longflop said:
I love this idea in theory. In practice, I'm not sure how it could happen without a ton of butthurt happening.
Click to expand...
This will NOT work period!!!

Buyers who want to buy will buy. Hobbies cost money and it usually does when a persons interest is at it's peak. Say I guy needs another stack of Olivia hundus to complete his rack. He will likely pay premium price (5x the amount it cost him for the first 4x stacks). That's his choice and the seller is there to provide the service.
 
Ben8257 said:
There was a recent sale of a barrel of Pick Hobson $100s, the seller wanted $15 a chip and it is publicly know these are chips that I own. The buyer reached out to me asking what the going rate was for minty PH Hundos because multiple people reached out trying to sell after they saw them move for that price. It's sad man, people looking for these chips or a wanted ad saying I will pay the going rate of $8 each would probably produce zero results. But I guess that is just where we are now, max profits or I am not moving chips period!!

How awesome would a Red/Yellow/Green light system be!! Basically a database that kept track of sales prices and based off that data a little traffic light saying green is a great price, yellow being average and red meaning this isn't a good price... proceed with caution! I realize this would never happen just thinking out loud, that would be pretty damn cool!!

Ben
Click to expand...
We need a price guide, lol, maybe someone will volunteer to assemble one that wouldn’t be biased to the chips they like/own. This is one hobby that is missing a grading or valuation service. But I wouldn’t use it or pay attention to it if there is one, but that’s just me. I don’t shop like that, I buy what suits my needs, and no matter what the current market value is I’m willing to do some work to find or create opportunities to pay a price I'm comfortable with.
 
Ben8257 said:
I agree you have the right to sell at whatever price you want, but I am one of those guys who thinks of the noobs. I absolutely agree they should take their time and research before buying chips, know the value before the investment... but in this crazy market of way more supply than demand many times people jump to say "I will take it" especially on chips that do not come up very often or considered rare. This is a slippery slope but the whole "no thread crapping" thing I think is BS. We should be able as a community to warn people when prices are way out of wack. I understand that would lead to constant bickering and absolutely we couldn't have that... even if someone knew someone was increasing by a dollar (per rack) over their paid amount everyone would be yelling about it.

There was a recent sale of a barrel of Pick Hobson $100s, the seller wanted $15 a chip and it is publicly know these are chips that I own. The buyer reached out to me asking what the going rate was for minty PH Hundos because multiple people reached out trying to sell after they saw them move for that price. It's sad man, people looking for these chips or a wanted ad saying I will pay the going rate of $8 each would probably produce zero results. But I guess that is just where we are now, max profits or I am not moving chips period!!

How awesome would a Red/Yellow/Green light system be!! Basically a database that kept track of sales prices and based off that data a little traffic light saying green is a great price, yellow being average and red meaning this isn't a good price... proceed with caution! I realize this would never happen just thinking out loud, that would be pretty damn cool!!

Ben
Click to expand...

we kind of already do this by the silence in over priced listings. You notice when someone lists chips at a fair price many people like the post and comment what a great seller the person is and what a great price the chips are. That someone better jump on them fast before they are gone. I try to do it.

on the other side, when prices are what most feel to be crazy, nobody comments or likes the post. It is the best option we have.
 
BGinGA said:
I blame the introduction of 43mm Paulsons via both Ohio Horseshoe Casino sales. Yeah, there were flippers around before then, but they took those IHC high-denomination chip prices to unheard-of levels of shameless greed.

Subsequent NAGB sellers of 43mm chips merely followed suit, although not nearly to the same degree.
Click to expand...
Am I the only one that hasn’t fallen under the spell of the over-sized chip? As soon as I see 43mm, I get turned off. (Out of context thread accomplished)

Color and spot pattern should elevate the higher denoms, not size. Mixed sizes is off putting.

Don’t get me started on plaques.
 
Last edited:
I've been really biting my tongue here for a few days. I still am, to be honest, but the heartburn this thread has caused me is almost unbearable.

Even people I thought had common sense have been out for lunch, honestly.

I do not think there is any thread in the history of PCF with more non-sense.

You guys think prices are driving people away from the forum? Nah, threads like this are...
 
Last edited:
I have a question. So a few times earlier on mostly I over paid for chips. Yeah that’s on me for being new and not researching prices enough. But if I decide to sell those same chips do I sell them high like I paid or cheaper and eat the cost? Do I mention I bought at a premium to tip the seller off that it’s towards the top end of what the chips go for? Thoughts
 
Pinkdan said:
I have a question. So a few times earlier on mostly I over paid for chips. Yeah that’s on me for being new and not researching prices enough. But if I decide to sell those same chips do I sell them high like I paid or cheaper and eat the cost? Do I mention I bought at a premium to tip the seller off that it’s towards the top end of what the chips go for? Thoughts
Click to expand...

You buy / sell at whatever you feel comfortable with AND based on what the market dictates. Can't blame the supplier if the demand is there.
 
Josh Kifer said:
It's time for the new Kifer Chippies Price index. I'm gonna be rich! 19.95 each year!
Click to expand...
Great idea! I found these for $12 per bag, am I overpaying?

1609859467248.png
 
Ben8257 said:
I agree you have the right to sell at whatever price you want, but I am one of those guys who thinks of the noobs. I absolutely agree they should take their time and research before buying chips, know the value before the investment... but in this crazy market of way more supply than demand many times people jump to say "I will take it" especially on chips that do not come up very often or considered rare. This is a slippery slope but the whole "no thread crapping" thing I think is BS. We should be able as a community to warn people when prices are way out of wack. I understand that would lead to constant bickering and absolutely we couldn't have that... even if someone knew someone was increasing by a dollar (per rack) over their paid amount everyone would be yelling about it.

There was a recent sale of a barrel of Pick Hobson $100s, the seller wanted $15 a chip and it is publicly know these are chips that I own. The buyer reached out to me asking what the going rate was for minty PH Hundos because multiple people reached out trying to sell after they saw them move for that price. It's sad man, people looking for these chips or a wanted ad saying I will pay the going rate of $8 each would probably produce zero results. But I guess that is just where we are now, max profits or I am not moving chips period!!

How awesome would a Red/Yellow/Green light system be!! Basically a database that kept track of sales prices and based off that data a little traffic light saying green is a great price, yellow being average and red meaning this isn't a good price... proceed with caution! I realize this would never happen just thinking out loud, that would be pretty damn cool!!

Ben
Click to expand...
Two years ago I could buy any chip in the Artichoke Joe lineup for less than $10 from Spinetti’s. Now the $1 chip is going for three times that and Chris won’t budge on price. They want $30 bucks a chip for the twenty! I’m not blaming you, just because you paid that, but it sucks that they are selling at that price and Spinettis has doubled and tripled their prices on these in less than two years. I’m not trying to start shit and I really like you, Ben. I’m just pointing out that there are buyers at the new inflated prices, or there wouldn’t be sellers.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
we kind of already do this by the silence in over priced listings. You notice when someone lists chips at a fair price many people like the post and comment what a great seller the person is and what a great price the chips are. That someone better jump on them fast before they are gone. I try to do it.

on the other side, when prices are what most feel to be crazy, nobody comments or likes the post. It is the best option we have.
Click to expand...
Ironically, I look for this in sale threads, but I didn’t realize it was a thing.

No likes to me equals subliminal “stay away” messaging lol
 
John Conor said:
Two years ago I could buy any chip in the Artichoke Joe lineup for less than $10 from Spinetti’s. Now the $1 chip is going for three times that and Chris won’t budge on price. They want $30 bucks a chip for the twenty! I’m not blaming you, just because you paid that, but it sucks that they are selling at that price and Spinettis has doubled and tripled their prices on these in less than two years. I’m not trying to start shit and I really like you, Ben. I’m just pointing out that there are buyers at the new inflated prices, or there wouldn’t be sellers.
Click to expand...
Oh shit. These two are gonna fight!!!!

Fight! Fight! Fight!
 
Flipping has always been a part of every hobby. I collect LEGOs and believe me they have the same debate. A millenium falcon (Starwars) set was around the $800-$900 mark when it first came up. Now it's worth like $5K. Again, you can't blame the seller if the demand is there. Why would he sell for less if someone is willing to take it off his hands for premium.

We have the same problem with real-estate where I live (Windsor). The real-estate here has gone sky rocket (ripple effect from Toronto). Lots of people buying and flipping and it's driving up the prices big time. The green monopoly house (also known as war-time homes) initially cost $150K. Now, it's about $450K. Can't blame these flippers for doing what they have to do... BUT... when the market turns and they fall flat on their a@@s I won't shed a tear for them because they were the ones responsible for driving up the prices in the first place.
 
Ben8257 said:
I agree you have the right to sell at whatever price you want, but I am one of those guys who thinks of the noobs. I absolutely agree they should take their time and research before buying chips, know the value before the investment... but in this crazy market of way more supply than demand many times people jump to say "I will take it" especially on chips that do not come up very often or considered rare. This is a slippery slope but the whole "no thread crapping" thing I think is BS. We should be able as a community to warn people when prices are way out of wack. I understand that would lead to constant bickering and absolutely we couldn't have that... even if someone knew someone was increasing by a dollar (per rack) over their paid amount everyone would be yelling about it.

There was a recent sale of a barrel of Pick Hobson $100s, the seller wanted $15 a chip and it is publicly know these are chips that I own. The buyer reached out to me asking what the going rate was for minty PH Hundos because multiple people reached out trying to sell after they saw them move for that price. It's sad man, people looking for these chips or a wanted ad saying I will pay the going rate of $8 each would probably produce zero results. But I guess that is just where we are now, max profits or I am not moving chips period!!

How awesome would a Red/Yellow/Green light system be!! Basically a database that kept track of sales prices and based off that data a little traffic light saying green is a great price, yellow being average and red meaning this isn't a good price... proceed with caution! I realize this would never happen just thinking out loud, that would be pretty damn cool!!

Ben
Click to expand...
So. You wanna do a truecar system for chips.
articleimg_6631_price-curve-example-corolla_494x358.jpg
 
Nine pages (so far) summary/learnings, IMHO...

1.
BonScot said:
... “caveat emptor” ...
Click to expand...

2.
CHP TD said:
@Windwalker - Such a cool way to get rid of $300K.
Click to expand...

3.
Some people are upset that their chips have risen in value and refuse to sell at market prices (preferring to hoard "good karma" by selling at cost or not at all).

(This is the best forum ever!)
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

CardRally
Chip Riddle - What am I looking at? (Majestic Star $100s)
Replies
5
Views
343
casinochipper22
casinochipper22
HeresyReznor
Community sample set?
Replies
3
Views
173
HeresyReznor
HeresyReznor
FortunesFool
What is going on with Kem?
Replies
29
Views
2K
Old State
Old State
maxim_666666
Does anyone know what color this is?
Replies
13
Views
718
Santa123
Santa123
Innoruuk
Another BR Pro fanboy is born
Replies
6
Views
390
Innoruuk
Innoruuk
Back
Top Bottom