Unwritten Rules of Chipping

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I wholeheartedly disagree with #3, especially for international transactions. No amount of packaging protects against a lost shipment. Defining a liability transfer point in any deal is beneficial to both buyer and seller. Only a seller can purchase insurance to protect against loss/theft/damage; however, some buyers want to assume the risk rather than pay additional costs incurred by a seller. This is particularly true when buying from an experienced chipper with a good transaction reputation. If a default liability assumption is made such that all sellers are responsible for shipments from door-to-door, some buyers who are willing to accept shipment risk would be unnecessarily excluded from being able to close deals (e.g., especially deals where the seller doesn't want to ship internationally, due to lack of insure-ability or cost). I package relatively bomb-proof, but defining liability transfer isn't about packaging, it's about protection from loss and having a mutual understanding between all parties that makes the parameters of a deal crystal clear. $0.02
I get the importance of clarity around liability transfer, but I've never paid for extra insurance and I find it shitty if an international chipper, already burdened by ridiculous shipping, would basically be forced to pay for it or else they get the response of...

"Lost package? Sorry homie - you're beat. See bullet #10 of my T's & C's."

I agree that it is important to protect yourself in a transaction. However, this is a community, and if I ever gave someone a response like that, without offering to provide relief (in some capacity), I'd deserve any blowback I get.
Some international shipments do not allow insurance. Liability should not be directly just on the shipper on this one.

I actually disagree with all of number three. But I'm six beers in and I don't wanna bicker. My defense would be piles of youtube videos and bad gifs.
My 2 cents...which is worth about .50 cents.

I was 100% in you camp Dan...until a recent incident (for which the seller was AMAZING to work with). The piece I didn't factor in previously was Customs opening the package, using the contents to play soccer or some shit, because there's zero chance you could F up a package so bad accidentally, and then stuffing the contents back in the box half missing. Not opining on the liability, just that this experience has created a fear in me related to international shipping that didn't previously exist. So much so, that it significantly reduced the probability of me selling my Deadwoods to an international buyer.
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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Not opining on the liability, just that this experience has created a fear in me related to international shipping that didn't previously exist. So much so, that it significantly reduced the probability of me selling my Deadwoods to an international buyer.
So from 0.000002% to 0.000001%? ...Crushing. :D
 

GenghisKhan

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9. If you don't like someone, or have a disagreement take the time to talk it out. Whether same day, or 6 months later. Cleaning the air can turn an enemy into a friend
So much this.

I've never come across someone here I did not like. There are many public squabbles though where it's clear certain members don't like each other. It's your right I guess. But often times it's 2 people I talk to and both are cool people.

But, I know personally I've sometimes formed opinions on someone (outside of PCF) and realized maybe we should clear the air. And that can be hard. To be the person who takes the 1st step. Sometimes I did not take that 1st step, neither did they, and we still don't talk unless it's 100% unavoidable.

(If you're not a fan of reconciliation skip lol)

This happened at work 2 weeks ago. Without going into specifics, a coworker was 100% in the wrong, and it was literally my job to politely tell them so (could not be avoided). I'm very good at my job, stating facts, keeping my cool, being polite.

But they took it like an 8 year old and had a temper tantrum. Going above my head to anyone who would listen. That pissed me off. But I also knew I was 100% in the right and that's what they'd be told. (Management had my back).

The next morning, I thought we should clear the air immediately and not let this fester for weeks and get worse.

I went to see him and said hey can we talk about yesterday? I just want to explain my side. He agreed to hear me out.
"When I told you "x", it's because that's what management wants me to do and say. It's what has always been said to everyone in that situation for the last 10 years. It has nothing to do with me or you. It's just how management wants me to handle that situation."

He immediately said he understood now, and apologized. He assumed it was my opinion and didn't know it was company policy that I was being asked to enforce. And we've been talking daily since and have become friends.

I'm actually not the hero here. He is.
I've read so many times in a disagreement you have to agree to hear the other person's viewpoint. After which you understand where they are coming from, and can better appreciate their side. And may even realize you were in the wrong. I took the 1st step, but he heard me out and met me the other half of the way.

This therapy session will be $250. I accept Paypal. Lol.

(If you have had disagreements with a PCFer who you find is otherwise cool, when the opportunity presents itself, reach out. Reconnect. Give it a shot.)
 

WedgeRock

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So much this.

I've never come across someone here I did not like. There are many public squabbles though where it's clear certain members don't like each other. It's your right I guess. But often times it's 2 people I talk to and both are cool people.

But, I know personally I've sometimes formed opinions on someone (outside of PCF) and realized maybe we should clear the air. And that can be hard. To be the person who takes the 1st step. Sometimes I did not take that 1st step, neither did they, and we still don't talk unless it's 100% unavoidable.

(If you're not a fan of reconciliation skip lol)

This happened at work 2 weeks ago. Without going into specifics, a coworker was 100% in the wrong, and it was literally my job to politely tell them so (could not be avoided). I'm very good at my job, stating facts, keeping my cool, being polite.

But they took it like an 8 year old and had a temper tantrum. Going above my head to anyone who would listen. That pissed me off. But I also knew I was 100% in the right and that's what they'd be told. (Management had my back).

The next morning, I thought we should clear the air immediately and not let this fester for weeks and get worse.

I went to see him and said hey can we talk about yesterday? I just want to explain my side. He agreed to hear me out.
"When I told you "x", it's because that's what management wants me to do and say. It's what has always been said to everyone in that situation for the last 10 years. It has nothing to do with me or you. It's just how management wants me to handle that situation."

He immediately said he understood now, and apologized. He assumed it was my opinion and didn't know it was company policy that I was being asked to enforce. And we've been talking daily since and have become friends.

I'm actually not the hero here. He is.
I've read so many times in a disagreement you have to agree to hear the other person's viewpoint. After which you understand where they are coming from, and can better appreciate their side. And may even realize you were in the wrong. I took the 1st step, but he heard me out and met me the other half of the way.

This therapy session will be $250. I accept Paypal. Lol.

(If you have had disagreements with a PCFer who you find is otherwise cool, when the opportunity presents itself, reach out. Reconnect. Give it a shot.)
Noobs always think they have nothing to offer PCF and need to keep their head down and their mouth shut.

This is the perfect example of good insight that has nothing to do with poker, that can be a noob adding value to the community (not that @GenghisKhan is a noob -- far from it). I think PCF is a great community because of the collective wisdom and knowledge that isn't poker/poker chip related.

Good story, @GenghisKhan!
 

GenghisKhan

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Thomacetti

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My 2 cents...which is worth about .50 cents.

I was 100% in you camp Dan...until a recent incident (for which the seller was AMAZING to work with). The piece I didn't factor in previously was Customs opening the package, using the contents to play soccer or some shit, because there's zero chance you could F up a package so bad accidentally, and then stuffing the contents back in the box half missing. Not opining on the liability, just that this experience has created a fear in me related to international shipping that didn't previously exist. So much so, that it significantly reduced the probability of me selling my Deadwoods to an international buyer.
So besides conversion fees, transaction fees, exuberant shipping cost, customs fee, VAT (21% on value+shipping cost), import charges, handling fees (courier) and taking all risk in shipping (lost package, damage, ...) we will just being denied access to an open market ?

What's next...25% PCF upcharge for international deal ?

I know a thing or two about international shipping...and we are mixing things here:

When a package is damaged or lost due to poor packaging, incorrect or missing info, negligence... it doesn't matter Seller has to make this right.
All other issues that can occure (theft, damage, ...) that are not a direct consequence of wrongdoing by involved parties should be worked out on case by case approach. Often it's difficult to insure high end packages since customs will up those cost with +30%...but that's the choice of the buyer.
I would never expect a seller to make good when an issue occured that was not his/her fault...but since I rarely deal with people I don't 100% trust, I never got shafted, even when things went bad.

This is all concerning member to member sales...from a business I would expect refund or replacement (normal business risk)
 
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TheDuke

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Here’s one I’d like considered -

If you advertise chips for sale in the classifieds, and you agree to sell them to somebody and take their money, you should ship them the chips instead of holding into them for a week while you make a better deal and then reneging.
Damn! Whoever pulls shit like this needs to be called out and ostracized. That's complete BS!
 

Josh Kifer

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Here’s one I’d like considered -

If you advertise chips for sale in the classifieds, and you agree to sell them to somebody and take their money, you should ship them the chips instead of holding into them for a week while you make a better deal and then reneging.
PM me and I'll follow him around for weeks being a douche. YOU WILL SEE THE FULL EXTENT OF MY POWERS.
 

JRReynolds6181

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Wow, took my phone out of my pocket after yard work. And I managed to pocket post the above empty chart? Lol.

I've heard of butt dialing someone.
Is this a butt post?
Honestly, I thought it was some of the best feedback in the thread. I was just thinking “V.. vuh vuh vuh...” and then you posted it.
 

Thomacetti

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My 2 cents...which is worth about .50 cents.

I was 100% in your camp Dan...until a recent incident (for which the seller was AMAZING to work with). The piece I didn't factor in previously was Customs opening the package, using the contents to play soccer or some shit, because there's zero chance you could F up a package so bad accidentally, and then stuffing the contents back in the box half missing. Not opining on the liability, just that this experience has created a fear in me related to international shipping that didn't previously exist. So much so, that it significantly reduced the probability of me selling my Deadwoods to an international buyer.
Again, nothing directed to you personal...

But a big chunk (600) of your upper denom rounders chips would never been reunited if I used same POV
Dan bought them from me...ask him @MegaTon44 how I/we handled that situation...speaks volumes in how things can materialize if people want to think from both side.

And actually...this should not matter, most of the seasoned international chippers have mules (aka friends) & relays to avoid losing out on buys (if not most is bought via PM & relations anyway.....were intern. shipping has not even been a thing).

This just bothers me for new (intern.) members that are getting priced out due overhead already (imagine paying 30% on ALL you chip purchases and pray they get home unharmed after being locked up by customs for a few weeks regarding paperwork).

Some sympathy would go a long way here.
And again nothing personal...but you know that Kevin @Seeking Alpha Social Club
 
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And actually...this should not matter, most of the seasoned international chippers have mules (aka friends) & relays to avoid losing out on buys (if not most is bought via PM & relations anyway.....were intern. shipping has not even been a thing).

This just bothers me for new (intern.) members that are getting priced out due overhead already (imagine paying 30% on ALL you chip purchases and pray they get home unharmed after being locked up by customs for a few weeks regarding paperwork).

Some sympathy would go a long way here. @Seeking Alpha Social Club
Hi @Thomacetti ,

I think you misinterpreted my point. My post has nothing to do with lack of sympathy for the chipper and everything to do with with the point you made perfectly:

"(imagine paying 30% on ALL you chip purchases and pray they get home unharmed after being locked up by customs for a few weeks regarding paperwork)."

That's exactly my point. This thought has now entered my mind when it didn't exist before. I always thought that as long as I provided bomb proof packaging, everything would be okay. I didn't factor in that customs might open the package and then throw only half the contents back in packaged like crap.

And on this point:

" (if not most is bought via PM & relations anyway.....were intern. shipping has not even been a thing)."

^^^^^^ PERFECT...problem solved. Package doesn't have to go through customs.
 

upNdown

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Hi @Thomacetti ,

I think you misinterpreted my point. My post has nothing to do with lack of sympathy for the chipper and everything to do with with the point you made perfectly:

"(imagine paying 30% on ALL you chip purchases and pray they get home unharmed after being locked up by customs for a few weeks regarding paperwork)."

That's exactly my point. This thought has now entered my mind when it didn't exist before. I always thought that as long as I provided bomb proof packaging, everything would be okay. I didn't factor in that customs might open the package and then throw only half the contents back in packaged like crap.

And on this point:

" (if not most is bought via PM & relations anyway.....were intern. shipping has not even been a thing)."

^^^^^^ PERFECT...problem solved. Package doesn't have to go through customs.
After seeing what customs did to those casino modianos recently, I wonder if international shippers would do well to pack their stuff in a re-closable box, inside their taped up cardboard.
 
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