Unreasonable Home Game Rake?? (2 Viewers)

[grahamplayscards]

It may sound strange but rest assured, dice chip 5/10 over paulson 10c/20c is a minority opinion on PCF.

I get it, not saying either is necessarily better but I prefer to play meaningful stakes.

 

[grahamplayscards]

Many of my close friends can’t play more than .05/.10 comfortably. It’s not about money when I play with them.

I understand wanting to play 5/10 or higher, and have the blessing to do so regularly, but I also just love playing with my friends where no one can get hurt

Different strokes for different folks and all that I suppose.

People that spend ungodly amounts on tigers then only play $0.25/$0.5 are the worst. That’s because the chips are not leaded and don’t have shaped inlays and they’re too bright, not because they cost $20k #PCF

I liked Manzoni’s take on it, for him it’s friendship and fellowship first - so for most home games it’s not about the money, just enough to make it mean something and not trying to bankrupt your buddies.

There’s examples of higher stake games (way above $5-$10) that play with mixed dice chips. But they don’t care about the chips, it’s the stakes.

If you’re looking for a different take, 2+2 is a better forum if you’re not into the chips and it’s more about the $ and stakes.

GL

I’m just here for Tinas and a HSI set eventually (the Tina’s arrive in a few days which I am very excited for)

 

[doublebooyah85]

The other thing missing in all these comments (except one) is that the host often extends credit to the players. This lets the game gets bigger and juicier. Then the host has to collect from the losers, which can be a chore. And in some cases, expensive failures.

I know several hosts who have lost millions in bad debt. Rake can help soften that.

Again, not saying raked games are for everyone. And there’s definitely some greedy hosts out there. But I know many who aren’t profiting from the rake.

I definitely mentioned credit because that is for sure the best benefit of a raked game. But that’s the difference between a Pcf, friendly game and a game for for profit with meaningful stakes.

 

[dinosaur]

10% up to essentially $10 seems crazy high to me, but maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the scene. Is this to be expected?

I’m in the Atl area and wanted to report that your experience is similar to mine. Personally, 10% seems too high to me. To be fair, snacks were provided. Tables, chips and chairs were okay. But - I’m pretty sure there’s an over rake. Whether for the house or dealer, iono. I’ve not returned.

It was presented as a home game but was definitely a business. I guess I just prefer a home game. But I’m also not a pro player. I play for fun and try to win more than I lose.

 

[TheJestyr]

I definitely mentioned credit because that is for sure the best benefit of a raked game. But that’s the difference between a Pcf, friendly game and a game for for profit with meaningful stakes.

Agreed.

And you’re an outlier. You’re such a great host who truly cares about the experience and don’t mind spending extra for chips, chairs, tables, food, etc.

Not everyone runs like you. I know many on PCF do, but outside of this forum, many hosts aren’t as attentive or caring.

But yeah, the credit is definitely a huge (if not the largest) benefit of raked games.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Agreed.

And you’re an outlier. You’re such a great host who truly cares about the experience and don’t mind spending extra for chips, chairs, tables, food, etc.

Not everyone runs like you. I know many on PCF do, but outside of this forum, many hosts aren’t as attentive or caring.

But yeah, the credit is definitely a huge (if not the largest) benefit of raked games.

I also don’t extend credit tho! And that’s really when you need a rake.

Back to OP. Give the game a shot but seems a bit stiff for a game you can buy in for $50-$100.

 

[Coyote]

IMHO, rake = underground game; NOT home game.
And that (together with lending and usury) may be the difference, official or practical, between legality and illegality in many jurisdictions.

There are other options for true (social) hosts to cover some expenses (BYOB, pay for your food to be ordered on the spot, etc).

I offer rivers of soda, some random beer or wine and at least one bottle of whisky.
Plus I buy the losers' (and the dealer's) food.
Each player contributes a standard down-payment for a professional dealer, plus optional tips by winners upon cash-out.

I know it's also culture-dependent. In Greece, for instance, hosting anything equals willingness to spend money for people you are supposed to like.

 

[Frogzilla]

I’ll wait for OP to answer basics like amenities…seems impossible to answer otherwise

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’ll wait for OP to answer basics like amenities…seems impossible to answer otherwise

I’m not sure the amenities matter. This is a $1-$2 game with $50 buy in max $300 taking almost $10 a hand. Unless they offer rake back lol

 

[GamingWithChips]

IMHO, rake = underground game; NOT home game.
And that (together with lending and usury) may be the difference, official or practical, between legality and illegality in many jurisdictions.

There are other options for true (social) hosts to cover some expenses (BYOB, pay for your food to be ordered on the spot, etc).

I offer rivers of soda, some random beer or wine and at least one bottle of whisky.
Plus I buy the losers' (and the dealer's) food.
Each player contributes a standard down-payment for a professional dealer, plus optional tips by winners upon cash-out.

I know it's also culture-dependent. In Greece, for instance, hosting anything equals willingness to spend money for people you are supposed to like.

I agree, I'm reading some of these comments like are they living in the movie Molly's Game? I get that it happens and I am definitely not judging or throwing shade, I'm just more confused as it sounds like a casino or card room to me. And I know that people would want all of that for high stakes, but I'm always under the impression that most home games are like $1-2 at the high end and just for fun with their friends or friends of friends.

I'm also with you that when you invite people over, you are doing it because you want to welcome them and have a good time, and sometimes that comes with a cost. I bought chips for my group to play with and they loved them and they were only Poker Knights slugs! lol They also thought I was nuts for paying like $300 for my set...maybe I shouldn't tell them I'm looking at upgrading to Tina's that will cost me like $600-900 loool

 

[upNdown]

I know it's also culture-dependent. In Greece, for instance, hosting anything equals willingness to spend money for people you are supposed to like.

I’m not worldly enough to know if there are cultural differences. But from everything I know, that’s exactly right.

 

[BigGrizz]

Everyone here is talking about rake and to me its like a different planet. I live in SoCal and having a raked game in my county without a gaming license, with my sheriff, would be a super quick ticket straight to jail.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Home games don't have a rake. Poker houses do. Poker houses are illegal in my state of residence.

But seriously, no rake ever.

 

[DrStrange]

tldr: It is a rare player who can beat the rake described in the OP. I would describle it as unreasonable and unbeatable by 95%+ of the player pool

For the most part, people misjudge how hard it is to overcome rakes / fees. A goodly number also overestimate their win rate. +10BB per hour is an excellent win rate. A crusher might be winning +15bb or more per hour - - - all before rake. Not knowing the actual rake / hands per hour / how the promotions work or how weak/strong the player pool is it difficult to know how few players end up winning. I'd guess 5% of the players in this game are profitable. Maybe less.

Let's just estimate $250 / hr in rake for an eight-hour session. $2,000 total. assume a full table or 10 players - so each player is paying $200 to play for the night, which comes to $25/hr in rake per player. That's 12.5bb per hour to overcome before making the first dollar. Hard to do.

OP considers how hard it is to win in a $1/$2 game with effectively a $10 per hand rake. Let's consider:

Does the game play like a $1/$2 game? Are pots of $500 or a $1,000+ common? If so, perhaps the game is more like $2/$5 or even $5/$10. I presume that five figurers almost never change hands in this $1/$2 game.

Does the host extend major credit to losing / drunk / drugged players? And eat the losses themselves. Does the host pay out all of the winners in cash at the end of the game?

How rich are the promotions?

How good are the amenities? Noting one player's amenities are another's negatives. What sort of cover charge would you pay for those amenities say at a movie or sports bar?

Does the game need security? I live in a gated community with private armed police where security at a $1/$2 card game isn't much of an issue. I am aware of "home games" running in pretty sketchy places that need security just to watch the cars. The kind of place you play the game matters.

Is security needed because the other players are potential criminals? I wouldn't play in a home game where I considered it plausible to be robbed by one of the losers even with guards. (see question above about loans to drunk/drugged players.) Are the players coming to the game armed?

We hear stories about remarkable win rates enjoyed by selected players. Not calling anyone a liar or even confused about their personal finances. I am saying such players are unicorns - not in any way typical. The original poster isn't at all likely to be such a player.

Good luck in this game, you will need it -=- DrStrange

 

[bubz_davis]

Lol, I feel like I would go to this game, poach the players, have a 1/2 game at my house with cooler chips and provide snacks, all with no rake. Then id never have to worry about filling my tables!

 

[dannyssteez]

yeah 10 dollar cap at those stakes is far too high unless the game gets crazy deep, I would avoid

 

[Old State]

I don’t understand…the rake is 10% no cap or $10 cap…not clear in the OP…plus a collection for promos? Uh …that better be one hell of a game with a dealer, great seats and food.

Here is what my “home” casino, Borgata, does….. 10% up to $6 +$3 for promos. It used to be 5% years ago.

But promos at a home game?? . I could care less.

I host every month….over a decade straight… with a legit full wet bar and two beers on tap….one is Guinness. I have enough types of booze to make 95% of the cocktails out there….I even pre squeeze fresh lemon and lime some nights! I put out some (non greasy) snacks as well. Not to mention…casino grade swivel chairs, cards, custom chips and now recently a Deckmate.

I’ve never I’m my life ever considered raking the game. Now, granted I’m and hour and 120 mins from AC and have other closer casinos around me….so we aren’t desperate to find a poker game…. but if I was gonna play a racked game, I just got to the casino.

People often bring beer for themselves and me and liquor bottles show up routinely. I never asked for anything though and don’t care to. I’m happy to host and glad I get to have a great game at my house and not have to drive anywhere

The only thing that has happened to my game even remotely like this is that my 14 year old son asked to deal the games when he is available. He does an excellent job. The guys love it and tip him through the night. I told them they didn’t have to do that thought…that he just likes dealing. Some nights he ends up with $50-70 bucks. Two regulars often over tip when they win and/or get a little drunk. Those nights he will make over $100. But I’m clear that isn’t the expectation

 

[goatblackmagic]

$10 rake is crazy for those stakes. Can't imagine any degree of amenities to justify it.

 

[GeeOhVee]

If you have a raked home game in California, and any width of a circle of players/people invited by others, expect to get raided. The local card rooms will snitch you out, or a bitter loser. Or both.

 

[BigGrizz]

Yup. Very strict no rake without a gaming license in California. There are other things you can do to boost the game without putting any cash in your pocket.

I do bonus chips for contributing to a pot luck for our tournaments. That's how I take care of food and drink costs.

 

[JustinInMN]

Exact quote was "It's 1/2 no limit holdem. Minimum buy-in is $50, max is $300 until 10 pm, then it’s match the stack. There is a rake of 10% up to 8+2 to help fund the royal and high hand promos."

I know Tennessee is anti-gambling so I know there aren't poker rooms open to the public there. But this compares to the high end of casino rakes I have ever seen. Still short of cruise ships though. (15/hand on Royal Caribbean e-tables for 2-5 NL. The drop gets it very quickly .)

I remember playing is 7+2 games in Elgin, IL once. That was back in 2016. That's the highest rake I ever remember paying.

 

[upNdown]

I know Tennessee is anti-gambling so I know there aren't poker rooms open to the public there. But this compares to the high end of casino rakes I have ever seen. Still short of cruise ships though. (15/hand on Royal Caribbean e-tables for 2-5 NL. The drop gets it very quickly .)

I remember playing is 7+2 games in Elgin, IL once. That was back in 2016. That's the highest rake I ever remember paying.

I haven't been there in a while, but Encore Boston was $10+2, and much like the price of groceries, these things never come down. Wouldn't shock me if it's gone up. It would be nice if these things were tracked and listed somewhere. I know folks have made efforts at the 2+2 forums, but even there it's tough to find and rarely updated.

 

[JustinInMN]

I haven't been there in a while, but Encore Boston was $10+2, and much like the price of groceries, these things never come down. Wouldn't shock me if it's gone up. It would be nice if these things were tracked and listed somewhere. I know folks have made efforts at the 2+2 forums, but even there it's tough to find and rarely updated.

I have not yet had the pleasure of playing in the northeast.

I am fortunate enough to live near to a room that rake's 5+2 , so I do recoil at seeing 10 on a small stake game outside a casino setting for sure.

 

[Old State]

I haven't been there in a while, but Encore Boston was $10+2, and much like the price of groceries, these things never come down. Wouldn't shock me if it's gone up. It would be nice if these things were tracked and listed somewhere. I know folks have made efforts at the 2+2 forums, but even there it's tough to find and rarely updated.

I try to play here whenever I’m in Boston for work. Id complain but its been hands down the luckiest card room I play in. I once flopped quad 8s, got raised all in, won a massive pot AND won $500 for the high hand jackpot!
Another time I was dealt AA on the cutoff the first hand after I sat down. Reraised a raise from middle postion then was put all in by the button. Doubled up the first hand! Got dealt AA about an hour later and the same guy doubled me up again! Both times he had KK

Three or four other stories like that. Everyone seems to think I’m bluffing in Boston

 

[upNdown]

I try to play here whenever I’m in Boston for work. Id complain but its been hands down the luckiest card room I play in. I once flopped quad 8s, got raised all in, won a massive pot AND won $500 for the high hand jackpot!
Another time I was dealt AA on the cutoff the first hand after I sat down. Reraised a raise from middle postion then was put all in by the button. Doubled up the first hand! Got dealt AA about an hour later and the same guy doubled me up again! Both times he had KK

Three or four other stories like that. Everyone seems to think I’m bluffing in Boston

That would be an interesting case study - would the players of New England rather lose their money than get bluffed? It wouldn’t surprise me; I’ve seen plenty of that behavior, especially from more casual players. But I’ve never actually played poker outside in NH, MA, and CT.

 

[Old State]

That would be an interesting case study - would the players of New England rather lose their money than get bluffed? It wouldn’t surprise me; I’ve seen plenty of that behavior, especially from more casual players. But I’ve never actually played poker outside in NH, MA, and CT.

I suspect blind luck on my part having big hands when others had second best or other good hands.

On another trip there a different guy also doubled me up twice!

This time he was simply pushing to hard. Both times I was in the BB and he was in middle position. First time I reraised him pre flop with AK suited and he calls. I flop the nut flush. I check to him and he bets….I raise and he reraises me all in. He flopped 2 pair and I win.

About 1-2 hours later I’m dealt AA on the BB and exact same scenario unfolds. This time I flop top set and he flops bottom set. In both cases he reraises me all in and loses