Unreasonable Home Game Rake?? (5 Viewers)

[theedegen]

I was invited to a home game this week and got really excited because I had been struggling to find anything in my area. But I was surprised with the rake he said they were taking for hosting.

Exact quote was "It's 1/2 no limit holdem. Minimum buy-in is $50, max is $300 until 10 pm, then it’s match the stack. There is a rake of 10% up to 8+2 to help fund the royal and high hand promos."

10% up to essentially $10 seems crazy high to me, but maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the scene. Is this to be expected?

Feels like the game would have to be really loose for me, an average trying player, to have a chance at breaking even.

Thanks for any info you guys can provide. Still fairly new to all of this.

 

[TheJestyr]

Personally I don’t think that’s too out of line for a home/underground game. Especially if the action is good and the host goes above and beyond to make the game enjoyable (good food and drink, nice chips, comfy chairs, solid security, waitresses, etc.)

Obviously if the game is tight an no one buys in more than a couple times, then it’s probably not worth it. But if it was me, I’d go once, maybe twice, and see how it is. Some of the best games I’ve played in had pretty high rake, but the hospitality and the action was awesome.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe!

 

[doublebooyah85]

IMHO too much for a $1-$2 game. Max should be $5 imho. Taking $10 from a $100 pot is crazy.

 

[Regularjohn]

could be me, but a "home game" (ie at someones house, the host is playing, self deal) should only have a minor "rake" at max. which should just cover some food and random stuff. i dont have a rake at my game, but at the end when we are cashing out, people always throw some money my way to help with food and booze.

when we are getting into a moderate rake level AND collecting more for high hand promos, this feels more like an underground game than a home game. if the rake is moderate + promos, im going to expect dealers and food included in there. because if not, then its just going into someones pocket.

to echo @TheJestyr , play in it and see. could be way loose and profitable.

 

[casinochipper22]

you should get what you pay for. For $10 a hand, I'd expect a good dealer, good environment, free drinks and decent food. And most importantly enough action to be able to win in a game like that. but ten bucks a hand for a home game isn't that unreasonable if the host is delivering a good product.

check it out. If you don't feel like there is any value, play an hour or two and just leave.

 

[BamaT8ter]

Personally I don’t think that’s too out of line for a home/underground game.

IMHO too much for a $1-$2 game. Max should be $5 imho. Taking $10 from a $100 pot is crazy.

Both of these statements are true.

 

[doublebooyah85]

$8 a hand. 25 hands an hour. 8 hours. That’s taking $1000 off the table. Add another $200 for dealer tips.

You’re not playing poker. You’re paying for drinks and food and the host to have extra money in his pockets. And I have no problem with a rake, but that’s egregious.

If buy in range was $200-$500 match the stack it would be fair game to try it out no doubt.

 

[grahamplayscards]

I think my comment got deleted. Shorter version:
1. Not unprecedented levels of rake but definitely high
2. Likely unbeatable if stacks are short
3. Watch out for dealers taking a little extra for themselves

 

[upNdown]

This is an easy one for me, because I have so many regulated casino/cardrooms with 90 minutes. If I want to play those stakes and pay that rake, I’ll go to those places.
But for a home game? No way. I don’t mind paying a bit for a good dealer. But I’ll bring my own drinks and I have no interest in food, so these heavily raked home games are not for me.

 

[mdt11]

I think my comment got deleted. Shorter version:
1. Not unprecedented levels of rake but definitely high
2. Likely unbeatable if stacks are short
3. Watch out for dealers taking a little extra for themselves

Weird. Mine too.

 

[Rakrul]

Tommy had to roll back to a back up so some posts got lost.

5 bb rake in a home game is wild. You're gonna need a high win rate to go even here.

 

[grahamplayscards]

This is an easy one for me, because I have so many regulated casino/cardrooms with 90 minutes. If I want to play those stakes and pay that rake, I’ll go to those places.
But for a home game? No way. I don’t mind paying a bit for a good dealer. But I’ll bring my own drinks and I have no interest in food, so these takes home games are not for me.

I’ve never played an unraked home game, so pardon my ignorance - are these self dealt? How does the host cover their expenses?

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’ve never played an unraked home game, so pardon my ignorance - are these self dealt? How does the host cover their expenses?

PCF has a lot of generous hosts and for the most part are anti rake. A lot of these games are self dealt and if they do have dealers they work for tips only anyways and that isn’t rake.

I run a home game and don’t rake. But I also only invite friends.

 

[upNdown]

I’ve never played an unraked home game, so pardon my ignorance - are these self dealt? How does the host cover their expenses?

I host single table .25/.50. We pass the deal. I put out water, soda, candy and hot dogs at my own expense. But seriously, that’s like $20 or $25 - not a big deal. And I’ll usually get tips that cover maybe half of that.

I’ve been at other unraked home game where the host doesn’t offer any food or drink (or people order foood together) and that’s fine too.

I played in a PCFers $1/1 home game a few times where he raked just a dollar out of every pot that got to a flop, to pay the dealer.

If you think “expensive” includes chips tables chairs utilities, I disagree.

 

[grahamplayscards]

I host single table .25/.50. We pass the deal. I put out water, soda, candy and hot dogs at my own expense. But seriously, that’s like $20 or $25 - not a big deal. And I’ll usually get tips that cover maybe half of that.

I’ve been at other unraked home game where the host doesn’t offer any food or drink (or people order foood together) and that’s fine too.

I played in a PCFers $1/1 home game a few times where he raked just a dollar out of every pot that got to a flop, to pay the dealer.

If you think “expensive” includes chips tables chairs utilities, I disagree.

I wouldn’t have a problem with paying $5/hand rake in a 1/3 or 2/5 game because I know hosts incur costs. If they do rake, I expect a certain level of amenities.

 

[Sal Bandini]

I wouldn’t have a problem with paying $5/hand rake in a 1/3 or 2/5 game because I know hosts incur costs. If they do rake, I expect a certain level of amenities.

Host costs are fixed regardless of blinds, so therefore you should happily pay $5/hand in a nickel/dime game.

And what amenities are you expecting?

 

[grahamplayscards]

Host costs are fixed regardless of blinds, so therefore you should happily pay $5/hand in a nickel/dime game.

And what amenities are you expecting?

hey buddy, I wouldn’t waste my time in a game playing for pennies. Obviously the game becomes unbeatable when the rake is 50BBs.

It’s hilarious you guys that play 10c/20c in your buddies basement can’t comprehend that’s not the pinnacle of home game luxury…

 

[TheJestyr]

I’ve posted this elsewhere, but growing up in Cleveland, we didn’t have a casino May of 2012. If we wanted to play, we were pretty much going to Detroit or playing in home games. Raking was just part of the deal. Sure there were some friendly smaller games where you could win or lose a hundred or two, but the big games had security, good food, and great action. But they were raked. Sometimes the rake was high compared to the blinds or initial buy-ins, but after a few hours, the rake didn’t even matter. We’d all gladly give up a few extra bucks for a chance to win five or six figures.

Even when the casino opened, the underground scene stayed strong. Guys with questionable incomes wanted to stay under the radar and not deal with buying chips or cashing out at the casino. Celebrities didn’t want to be seen staying out late at the downtown casino. The casino’s rules and regulations wouldn’t let us have prop bets or pass chips. I can go on, but bottom line is:

Games with your friends where no “real” money gets exchanged? I’m anti-rake.

Games that are more competitive with great action? Give me security and food and drinks and take my money.

 

[Sal Bandini]

hey buddy, I wouldn’t waste my time in a game playing for pennies. Obviously the game becomes unbeatable when the rake is 50BBs.

It’s hilarious you guys that play 10c/20c in your buddies basement can’t comprehend that’s not the pinnacle of home game luxury…

Missing the point obv

Costs don't change based on stakes, so what are you looking for when you pay rake?

 

[doublebooyah85]

Missing the point obv

Costs don't change based on stakes, so what are you looking for when you pay rake?

A .50/$1 is going to have hot dogs and soda. A $5-$10+ game will have carry out food, security at the door and when you cash out going to your car, massage therapists, multiple dealers, more snacks, alcohol, lines of credit etc.

 

[Sal Bandini]

A .50/$1 is going to have hot dogs and soda. A $5-$10+ game will have carry out food, security at the door and when you cash out going to your car, massage therapists, multiple dealers, more snacks, alcohol, lines of credit etc.

So you're paying extra for over-priced food and drinks.

Casinos have security and multiple dealers. Food and drink are extra.

Rake is nothing more than profit for the host. Period. If people are ok with that, fine, but they shouldn't pretend that they are getting some great value out of it.

 

[grahamplayscards]

Missing the point obv

Costs don't change based on stakes, so what are you looking for when you pay rake?

Not missing the point at all, it’s a dumb “point”

Looking for meals, drinks, comfortable chairs/table, host that can lend money, safe location, decent parking, TVs with poker or sports on, massage therapist - ultimately the value a host brings to players is consistency and reliability, he’s doing work on the back end to get the right mix of players and keep the losing players happy so the game isn’t full of 8 nit regs.

 

[Kam]

hey buddy, I wouldn’t waste my time in a game playing for pennies. Obviously the game becomes unbeatable when the rake is 50BBs.

It’s hilarious you guys that play 10c/20c in your buddies basement can’t comprehend that’s not the pinnacle of home game luxury…

I don’t think you’ve seen some of the god tier basements of PCFrs, stakes are relatively low but setups are epic

 

[grahamplayscards]

I don’t think you’ve seen some of the god tier basements of PCFrs, stakes are relatively low but setups are epic

I do find it comical people can have 20k worth of tigers on the table and be playing for pocket change. Give me dice chip 5/10 over Paulson 10c/20c any day of the week

 

[upNdown]

I do find it comical people can have 20k worth of tigers on the table and be playing for pocket change. Give me dice chip 5/10 over Paulson 10c/20c any day of the week

It may sound strange but rest assured, dice chip 5/10 over paulson 10c/20c is a minority opinion on PCF.

 

[TheJestyr]

So you're paying extra for over-priced food and drinks.

Casinos have security and multiple dealers. Food and drink are extra.

Rake is nothing more than profit for the host. Period. If people are ok with that, fine, but they shouldn't pretend that they are getting some great value out of it.

Strongly disagree. Rake is definitely not always profit for the host. Sure sometimes it can be, but I know quite a few games where rake just covers the cost for the experience. And bigger action players love it. Free drinks? Free cigars? Great food? A couple security guards? Great chips? All the sports channels on multiple TVs? A smoking room? It all sets the atmosphere and costs money.

And obviously if that’s not the games you want to be part of, fine. But many of the larger, action players love it.

 

[TheJestyr]

I do find it comical people can have 20k worth of tigers on the table and be playing for pocket change. Give me dice chip 5/10 over Paulson 10c/20c any day of the week

Many of my close friends can’t play more than .05/.10 comfortably. It’s not about money when I play with them.

I understand wanting to play 5/10 or higher, and have the blessing to do so regularly, but I also just love playing with my friends where no one can get hurt

 

[Kam]

I do find it comical people can have 20k worth of tigers on the table and be playing for pocket change. Give me dice chip 5/10 over Paulson 10c/20c any day of the week

Different strokes for different folks and all that I suppose.

People that spend ungodly amounts on tigers then only play $0.25/$0.5 are the worst. That’s because the chips are not leaded and don’t have shaped inlays and they’re too bright, not because they cost $20k #PCF

I liked Manzoni’s take on it, for him it’s friendship and fellowship first - so for most home games it’s not about the money, just enough to make it mean something and not trying to bankrupt your buddies.

There’s examples of higher stake games (way above $5-$10) that play with mixed dice chips. But they don’t care about the chips, it’s the stakes.

If you’re looking for a different take, 2+2 is a better forum if you’re not into the chips and it’s more about the $ and stakes.

GL

 

[doublebooyah85]

Rake is nothing more than profit for the host. Period. If people are ok with that, fine, but they shouldn't pretend that they are getting some great value out of it.

 

[TheJestyr]

The other thing missing in all these comments (except one) is that the host often extends credit to the players. This lets the game gets bigger and juicier. Then the host has to collect from the losers, which can be a chore. And in some cases, expensive failures.

I know several hosts who have lost millions in bad debt. Rake can help soften that.

Again, not saying raked games are for everyone. And there’s definitely some greedy hosts out there. But I know many who aren’t profiting from the rake.