Tourney Turbo tourney help (1 Viewer)

[horseshoez]

Helping a friend in putting together back to back turbo tourneys with a T25 bade. Need suggestions as to starting stacks you guys have used, blind schedules, etc.

Total number of players, 8 of 9 max so STT. Thinking would like for it to last no more 1 1/2 hr so as to allow for another one right after.

 

[Blind Joe]

I'm sure the experts will be along at some point with a cast iron structure for you, but until then here's one I put together a few months ago when I was considering a turbo night (never used it in the end though so...)

By my reckoning a STT should end no later than L9, so just over 2 hours including a break half way through, though you could reduce the overall time by shortening the levels.

PS. You didn't specify any criteria like how many players you expect or how long you actually want it to last so if you let people know that they will probably come up with something better.

 

[horseshoez]

I'm sure the experts will be along at some point with a cast iron structure for you, but until then here's one I put together a few months ago when I was considering a turbo night (never used it in the end though so...)

View attachment 378972

By my reckoning a STT should end no later than L9, so just over 2 hours including a break half way through, though you could reduce the overall time by shortening the levels.

PS. You didn't specify any criteria like how many players you expect or how long you actually want it to last so if you let people know that they will probably come up with something better.

Awesome, thanks for providing that. I edited the OP to reflect number of players and total duration desired.

 

[Blind Joe]

I think 90 min is a tough duration to aim for for a full table. You could reduce the blind durations but they're already pretty short and won't allow for many hands, or you could reduce the stacks but they're already only 75bb and would be a shove fest pretty soon.

If it were me and I really wanted to reduce the overall duration I'd get rid of the break (you'd have to colour up on the fly though) and aim for 2 hours, but my group isn't the quickest so you might be able to manage it without it seeming too frantic.

 

[JustinInMN]

I don't do turbos often, but this should be good for 90 mins

T3000 start (12*25, 12*100, 3*500)

15 mins

50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300 (optional break color up)

10 mins
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200 (expected end with 8 entries)
800-1600 (expected end with 9-10 entries)

Expected end calculated with 20BB in play rule.

Trouble with turbo is getting the button to make full orbits between changes without starting at something like 20BB.

 

[Dix]

The "math" I use to guesstimate when a tourney will end (and it seems to work pretty well) is when the total of the blinds (& antes if used) is roughly equal to 5% of the total chips in play. It's a little shorter than Justin's (but not by much - either would be pretty close - give or take a level) But, by my math that's 30BB in play, or a couple levels quicker.

All the tourney's I play, I'm usually within a level one way or the other of calling the end depending on how "sticky" the final table players are at playing it out or if they cut a deal at 4-5 players.

Point being, you can do that math "backwards" from a level in a given structure to figure out what to use for starting stacks.

If you look at the one Joe posted, level 6, is 500-1000. (It should be listed as ending at 1:40, the "duration" math is off after the break)

500 + 1000 = 1500 (5% of your total chips in play)

1500 x 20 = 30,000 (total chips in play)

30,000 / 9 players = 3333

Starting stacks = 3500. (or 3000 if you want to make sure it gets done in time to start another)

Doing that same math on Justin's schedule (which I prefer)...

300+600=900 | 900x20=18,000 | 18,000/9=2000 starting stacks

As Justin pointed out, the real issue with 15 minute turbo levels is getting the button to make a complete orbit of the table in a level. My solution to that is to use 2 decks. While the button is dealing, the small blind is shuffling a second deck (use 2 different color decks). The big blind can perform the "cut". Now, when the hand in play is over the next dealer has a pre-shuffled deck ready to go. Pot is awarded to the winner, cards are swept to the BB so he can shuffle 'em, & new button can start dealing immediately. This can easily add 10-12 hands per hour & allows for the button to complete an orbit of a full table in under 15 minutes.

 

[JustinInMN]

The "math" I use to guesstimate when a tourney will end (and it seems to work pretty well) is when the total of the blinds (& antes if used) is roughly equal to 5% of the total chips in play. It's a little shorter than Justin's (but not by much - either would be pretty close - give or take a level)

FWIW, the 20BB rule is certainly not mine and is often repeated in other PCF structure threads. It's usually understood the 20BB rule to be give or take a level as well .

 

[Blind Joe]

Aren't they the same thing?

T ÷ 20 = T × 0.05

 

[horseshoez]

Really will all depend on the first couple of runs and seeing what he and that group like. All the above suggestions help in at least knowing what’s to be expected using certain stacks and blind lengths. I’m sure after the first few, they’ll be able to determine what they like best and just stick to that setup for their turbos. Really appreciate the input.

 

[Dix]

Joe: Not quite. Justin's is when only the BB equals 5% of the chips in play (20BB). & mine is when the total of BOTH blinds is 5%. So, mine actually works out to 30BB. Or, mine has it over a level or two quicker depending on the structure.

Justin: In thinking about it a bit, 20-25BB probably works OK for single tables, but 30BB is closer for larger multi-table.

I'm usually within a level of calling it in the tourneys I play. But, those are all multi-tables.

I can't recall off the top of my head where I heard the 5% rule... but I think it may have been conceived based on Harrington's M-factor.

The logic is basically, this...

If you're down to head's-up & both players have equal stacks, then each player has 15BB, or an M of 10. Which is the cutoff point between Harrington's "Yellow" & "Orange" zones. If you've made it this far it's not going to last much longer. I usually see a deal being cut a level or so sooner. Only someone with a serious chip lead has any real room to play normally. Everyone else is getting pushy.

At 20BB everyone is short-stacked, I don't see many going this far.

 

[JustinInMN]

500 + 1000 = 1500 (5% of your total chips in play)

1500 x 20 = 30,000 (total chips in play)

Aren't they the same thing?

T ÷ 20 = T × 0.05

I think Dix is counting 30x both small and big blind combined. Which is the same thing as counting 20 bb alone so long as BB = 2 * SB.

(And you thought you were never going to need algebra in real life )

 

[JustinInMN]

I think Dix is counting 30x both small and big blind combined. Which is the same thing as counting 20 bb alone so long as BB = 2 * SB.

And then @Dix posts this explanation at the same time.

 

[BGinGA]

The 20bb rule is merely used to identify the longest duration the tournament is likely to last. Most will finish one or two levels earlier, depending on:

• ante use (antes = shorter, bba = even shorter)
• player styles (more agressive = shorter)
• relative chip stack sizes (equal stacks = longer)
• payout structure (larger pay jumps = longer)
• what's planned for after the tournament (something desireable = shorter)

 

[Dix]

The 20bb rule is merely used to identify the longest duration the tournament is likely to last.

Ah, that explains it. Thanks.