The "Infinite Rebuy" Strategy? | $10 Home Game Madness (1 Viewer)

[doc_junior]

]Hey everyone, I’m looking for some sanity checks on the strategy for my local home game. I donated the set—Bluff Canyon (breakdown below)—but the "tournament" structure is unlike anything I’ve seen discussed here.

The "Chaos" Structure:

• Buy-in: $10 for $40k chips.
• Bounties/High Hand: $5 each.
• The Rebuy Rule: Rebuys are unlimited and never close.
• The End Game: We don't play to a single winner. When we hit 3 players (usually around the 10k/20k blind level), we stop and pay out proportionally based on chip counts.

The Strategy Dilemma: Because the High Hand often ends up being the biggest payout of the night, and rebuys never close, the "correct" way to play seems... broken?

I’ve been playing a standard TAG style, but I’m getting run over by guys who rebuy constantly, or just splash around trying to hit that High Hand jackpot. Since the game ends with a chip-chop, these "re-buy warriors" often walk away with the most money because they’ve amassed huge stacks through high-variance play.

My Questions:

1. If the High Hand is the main prize, should I be widening my range significantly just to see more flops, even if it means rebuying more?
2. Is there any merit to "playing tight" when the game ends in a chip-chop and the blinds are 50% of a starting stack?
3. How do you value a $5 bounty when a rebuy only costs $10 and gives the opponent a fresh stack?

Bluff Canyon Set Breakdown:

• 100×125
• 500×125
• 1,000×100
• 5,000×100
• 10,000×50

I’d love to hear if anyone else plays these "infinite rebuy" formats and how you adjust when survival isn't actually the goal.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Welcome! I'll start by saying I definitely don't like calling any structure or game broken in that way. May be frustrating when priorities change but that's the course you're playing on. Gotta adapt to changes in priorities. Not a big deal but semantics can change the way we think about games and I've heard misregs complain about low stakes NLHE in that way, frustrated when playing against maniacs they should be able to beat.

Your instincts are correct. Its bananas to play TAG in a bananas game. TAG is meant to build chips using a tight range, leveraging your stronger starting range against 2nd best hands and missed flops. Tight ranges usually print against mooks at $1/2 tables that play for high hand jackpots, but when half the prize pool goes to that high hand there should be a huge premium on pairs and suited connectors. See flops, and checkraise or cbet a much higher percentage on flop when people are disinterested having missed. Play more hands and abuse the draws, make sure to make the most you can when you flush-over-flush the guy with 53s.

That being said, it makes all the sense in the world to have lots of rebuys ready. Playing high variance playstyles with lots of rebuys are the 100% best way to profit in large tournaments, we're seeing that at all levels even before the split-pot-high-hand shenanigans. Those rebuy-warriors have correctly adapted to the scenario and game rules they're playing, whether they knew it or not.

So
1. Yes, focus on hands that can more easily make monsters (straightflush/quads), and then CBET more.
2. Still certainly has merit, but there should be a bigger focus on being able to fold second best hands. Lots of other players will be drawing. See flops with solid hands, and feel confident Cbet/cbet/folding if needed.
3. I still value the bounty, and I want to isolate short stacks to take advantage of it. Due to the structure, I'm 3betting light to try and bait short stacks in who are excited to rebuy. Once someone loses a big pot and still has their bounty I'm targetting them and hoping to take half my buyin back. Its just like a split pot game: players that only focus on the high portion of the pot suck. Same with some of the players who are already focused on their next buyin, grab some chips and a bounty.

 

[doc_junior]

Welcome! I'll start by saying I definitely don't like calling any structure or game broken in that way. May be frustrating when priorities change but that's the course you're playing on. Gotta adapt to changes in priorities. Not a big deal but semantics can change the way we think about games and I've heard misregs complain about low stakes NLHE in that way, frustrated when playing against maniacs they should be able to beat.

Your instincts are correct. Its bananas to play TAG in a bananas game. TAG is meant to build chips using a tight range, leveraging your stronger starting range against 2nd best hands and missed flops. Tight ranges usually print against mooks at $1/2 tables that play for high hand jackpots, but when half the prize pool goes to that high hand there should be a huge premium on pairs and suited connectors. See flops, and checkraise or cbet a much higher percentage on flop when people are disinterested having missed. Play more hands and abuse the draws, make sure to make the most you can when you flush-over-flush the guy with 53s.

That being said, it makes all the sense in the world to have lots of rebuys ready. Playing high variance playstyles with lots of rebuys are the 100% best way to profit in large tournaments, we're seeing that at all levels even before the split-pot-high-hand shenanigans. Those rebuy-warriors have correctly adapted to the scenario and game rules they're playing, whether they knew it or not.

So
1. Yes, focus on hands that can more easily make monsters (straightflush/quads), and then CBET more.
2. Still certainly has merit, but there should be a bigger focus on being able to fold second best hands. Lots of other players will be drawing. See flops with solid hands, and feel confident Cbet/cbet/folding if needed.
3. I still value the bounty, and I want to isolate short stacks to take advantage of it. Due to the structure, I'm 3betting light to try and bait short stacks in who are excited to rebuy. Once someone loses a big pot and still has their bounty I'm targetting them and hoping to take half my buyin back. Its just like a split pot game: players that only focus on the high portion of the pot suck. Same with some of the players who are already focused on their next buyin, grab some chips and a bounty.

Thanks for the feedback! BTW, my intent was to say my strategy was broken, not the game. It's a great group of ladies and gentlemen and they've all been playing a lot longer than me. I've learned a lot from them.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Thanks for the feedback! BTW, my intent was to say my strategy was broken, not the game. It's a great group of ladies and gentlemen and they've all been playing a lot longer than me. I've learned a lot from them.

Ahhh understood, sorry I misread. Good call on all fronts, just here to affirm your instincts. Sounds like a fun group, that's what matters.

 

[Machine]

$10 for $40k chips.

Rebuys are unlimited and never close.

Next, you're going to tell me they are only playing holdem!

The only Winning Strategy: Don't Play

 

[Jimulacrum]

This whole structure is ridiculous. Pays out when it's down to 3, but it can only ever get down to 3 when the deepest-pocketed players decide to stop rebuying. Until then, everyone else is at the mercy of whoever is willing to fire the most bullets.

Best thing to do is to make this a cash game. It's already so close. Using cash-value chips would make a whole lot more sense out of the unlimited rebuys and the chip-chop method of cashing out. Now people can just cash out their chips instead of being held hostage indefinitely by whoever brought enough money to keep it 4-handed until all the poors bust out.

If you have no way to alter the structure, and your pockets aren't deep enough to keep up with the whales, your best bet is to just not play.

This whole structure sucks. I'm willing to play a lot of different games and formats, but this one is an overcomplicated shitshow that practically invites collusion and makes it way too easy for a few guys (3, specifically) to run the game over.

 

[doc_junior]

This whole structure is ridiculous. Pays out when it's down to 3, but it can only ever get down to 3 when the deepest-pocketed players decide to stop rebuying. Until then, everyone else is at the mercy of whoever is willing to fire the most bullets.

Best thing to do is to make this a cash game. It's already so close. Using cash-value chips would make a whole lot more sense out of the unlimited rebuys and the chip-chop method of cashing out. Now people can just cash out their chips instead of being held hostage indefinitely by whoever brought enough money to keep it 4-handed until all the poors bust out.

If you have no way to alter the structure, and your pockets aren't deep enough to keep up with the whales, your best bet is to just not play.

This whole structure sucks. I'm willing to play a lot of different games and formats, but this one is an overcomplicated shitshow that practically invites collusion and makes it way too easy for a few guys (3, specifically) to run the game over.

I should have said we normally have 11-12 players, occasionally 14. Out of that there are probably 6 that rebuy 3, 4, 5 or more times. I've had a huge night where I finished 1st with a massive chip lead, took down 5-6 bounties, and also the high hand. That's a rare feat, but glorious when it happens. Over all it's a fun game, but it can get wild with people going all in on the first hand.

I forgot to mention we also have a crazy-hand. When drawing for the dealer at the beginning of the night, the cards drawn by the two players immediately to the left of the dealer form the crazy-hand. If you happen to win with the crazy hand you get paid a $1,000 from every player at the table. It's a great incentive to play the crazy-hand aggressively early in the night. It's fun to get AA and go all in, there is an increased chance someone will put you on the crazy-hand and call with almost any two cards.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I should have said we normally have 11-12 players, occasionally 14. Out of that there are probably 6 that rebuy 3, 4, 5 or more times. I've had a huge night where I finished 1st with a massive chip lead, took down 5-6 bounties, and also the high hand. That's a rare feat, but glorious when it happens. Over all it's a fun game, but it can get wild with people going all in on the first hand.

I forgot to mention we also have a crazy-hand. When drawing for the dealer at the beginning of the night, the cards drawn by the two players immediately to the left of the dealer form the crazy-hand. If you happen to win with the crazy hand you get paid a $1,000 from every player at the table. It's a great incentive to play the crazy-hand aggressively early in the night. It's fun to get AA and go all in, there is an increased chance someone will put you on the crazy-hand and call with almost any two cards.

Man, this game has too many weird random features for my tastes.

As you can see, you can make a TAG strategy work in this kind of game, especially if you're not eager to shell out a bunch of rebuys. Players who rebuy like crazy will tend to turn up in the top 3 a lot, but the times you get into the top 3 on your first $10* buy-in, you'll be making a huge return on your money, while they'll have a lot more invested and thus will make a much smaller return (if not negative).

Spoiler: *

Is it $10 flat to buy in or $10 + extra for the high hand and bounties?

 

[DrStrange]

I wonder how the bounties work?

If there is a payout for every player you force to rebuy, that seems like a solid place to stack up a profit.

If the bounty is only paid when a killing knockout occurs, then it is not much use.

The victory conditions are unorthodox. You could be the biggest winner and not even make it into the top three. hero is incentivized to play big potential hands quite slowly as the reward from the HHJ is far higher than the value of an early session pot.

No matter - making the right adjustments should make the game plenty profitable and fun even if the game is a bit odd. -=- DrStrange

 

[doc_junior]

Man, this game has too many weird random features for my tastes.

As you can see, you can make a TAG strategy work in this kind of game, especially if you're not eager to shell out a bunch of rebuys. Players who rebuy like crazy will tend to turn up in the top 3 a lot, but the times you get into the top 3 on your first $10* buy-in, you'll be making a huge return on your money, while they'll have a lot more invested and thus will make a much smaller return (if not negative).

Spoiler: *

Is it $10 flat to buy in or $10 + extra for the high hand and bounties?

I thought the same thing when I first started playing it. There are big swings. Having a big stack at the break almost means nothing. What I can't figure is if it hurts or helps my game when I go to the casino.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I thought the same thing when I first started playing it. There are big swings. Having a big stack at the break almost means nothing. What I can't figure is if it hurts or helps my game when I go to the casino.

Exercising your noodle with new and different structures should be a net skill benefit if you're aware of it enough to ask yourself the question.

 

[doc_junior]

I wonder how the bounties work?

If there is a payout for every player you force to rebuy, that seems like a solid place to stack up a profit.

If the bounty is only paid when a killing knockout occurs, then it is not much use.

The victory conditions are unorthodox. You could be the biggest winner and not even make it into the top three. hero is incentivized to play big potential hands quite slowly as the reward from the HHJ is far higher than the value of an early session pot.

No matter - making the right adjustments should make the game plenty profitable and fun even if the game is a bit odd. -=- DrStrange

Bounties are optional, but almost everyone elects to purchase a bounty chip ($5) at the start of the game. If you get knocked out, whoever wins the pot (knocks you out) gets your bounty chip, but only if they have a bounty chip themselves. We have one player who never participates in the bounty. When he knocks a player out the knocked out player keep their bounty chip and will get $5 for it when they leave the game, or they rebuy for less since they still have their bounty chip. If you previously collected one or more bounties from other players they are yours until you cash out at which point you are paid $5 per bounty chip. Only your bounty is at risk.

Most players buy in for $20--$10 for the game, $5 for the high hand, and $5 for a bounty chip--however, as the night progresses, some players skip the high hand if the current high hand is four of a kind or a straight flush. When the blinds get large most people do not buy a bounty chip as being low on chips lessens the chance they'll knock someone out and win their bounty.

If someone get's four of a kind early, we'll often pay them off and reset the high hand. I got quad Jacks on the second hand a couple of months ago and everyone paid me $5 to reset the high hand.

Hope that all makes sense.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Hope that all makes sense.

Quite the opposite.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. No, it does not make sense.

 

[Jake14mw]

I agree with the idea of just making it a cash game. I like tournaments because it evens things up between people with deep pockets and those on a budget. Having unlimited rebuys makes it just the opposite. Seems like would be like playing in a online free game.

 

[BigGrizz]

It seems like the high hand bonus is kind of crazy. I would switch it to playing something like the 7-2 game where the award is everyone pays you a couple big blinds.

I'm totally down with an infinite rebuy tournament. I would make a couple big alterations though. For instance, maybe scramble seating at each break so that people are stuck in the same spot/table the whole time. Also, put a set end time on the tournament and pay out according to rank of chip stacks.

 

[doc_junior]

It seems like the high hand bonus is kind of crazy. I would switch it to playing something like the 7-2 game where the award is everyone pays you a couple big blinds.

I'm totally down with an infinite rebuy tournament. I would make a couple big alterations though. For instance, maybe scramble seating at each break so that people are stuck in the same spot/table the whole time. Also, put a set end time on the tournament and pay out according to rank of chip stacks.

The crazy-hand is similar to the 7-2 game. Often times the cards are rags, but occasionally you get connected cards or broadway cards. So, I kind of like that it is different from week-to-week. I hadn't thought about tying the amount of the payment to the blind structure. I'm going to suggest it the next time I play.

With my TAG play, I will often make it deep, but still usually miss out on the money. Although, since I rarely rebuy, when I do make it to the money it's a good payday considering my initial investment.

We start at 7pm and usually finish between 10:00pm and 10:30pm.

 

[Labrat]

So a cash game is out of the question?

 

[doc_junior]

So a cash game is out of the question?

I would be down with a low-stakes cash game, but I'm not the host and they've been using this format for years. The game is convenient to me and it helps satisfy the live poker itch, so I'm not complaining about the game. Just really trying to understand an optimal strategy given the variations in play.

 

[Labrat]

Ah, got it. It just sounds to me a low stakes cash game would be a better fit for the group, but I get it’s out of your hands.

 

[Darson]

Instead of us giving you advice, how do your players feel about it? If they’re happy then don’t change anything. It’s an unusual structure but does allow some people to buy in once and play tight all night and others to rebuy repeatedly and play loose. If everyone is happy then great!

As for your play you should identify those that are tight and done like to rebuy vs those that are loose and adapt your play accordingly.

 

[doc_junior]

Instead of us giving you advice, how do your players feel about it? If they’re happy then don’t change anything. It’s an unusual structure but does allow some people to buy in once and play tight all night and others to rebuy repeatedly and play loose. If everyone is happy then great!

As for your play you should identify those that are tight and done like to rebuy vs those that are loose and adapt your play accordingly.

I'm not seeking advice on how to change the game. It's long established and the folks that play, including me, seem to like it, as they continue to show up week after week. I'm just trying to figure out how to beat this variation of the game. The advice in that arena has already been helpful.

 

[BigGrizz]

The crazy-hand is similar to the 7-2 game. Often times the cards are rags, but occasionally you get connected cards or broadway cards. So, I kind of like that it is different from week-to-week. I hadn't thought about tying the amount of the payment to the blind structure. I'm going to suggest it the next time I play.

With my TAG play, I will often make it deep, but still usually miss out on the money. Although, since I rarely rebuy, when I do make it to the money it's a good payday considering my initial investment.

We start at 7pm and usually finish between 10:00pm and 10:30pm.

Just figure out which level ends around 10pm and make that the end. After that, pay out by rank.