teaching poker to kids/newbies (2 Viewers)

[navels]

I have a friend whose 11 year-old son wants to get better at poker. Apparently he has been playing with friends. Don't ask me for any more details because that's all I know so far. Let's assume we're talking about NLHE. That's a fair assumption although maybe it will turn out they're playing 5-card draw but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I agreed to help the kid but suggested we play as a group so that he'll actually be learning through playing. It'll be five-handed: this kid, his mom, my wife, my college-aged daughter, and myself. Everyone will be a novice except me.

Other than having printed hand-ranking charts (and awesome chips), any suggestions? I am just generally thinking we'll play a "cash game" and I'll be explaining the rules to everyone as we go and helping the kid (and hence everyone at the table) with basic strategy, something along the lines of

1. fold garbage pre-flop
2. bet sizing (very basic)
3. ????

It's been a while since my kids were that young so I don't really know what concepts are cognitively appropriate (odds to call, fold equity, etc.).

 

[Old State]

My sons are 10 and 7 and often want to play. I give them chips and quiz them on every street during (most) hands. I ask them what the best possible hand and draw is at every street. I ask them how many cards are left in the deck to make the draws. Other skills are harder to teach with just the three of us playing, but I figure, at the very worst they learn to understand some odds and maybe even get better at math.

 

[Coyote]

I think your two basic lines to take are sound.
Managing the win/loss situation is very delicate against minors and "civilians". I can't see how a cash game could be played. Maybe a $3 buy-in to a 300BB tourney with one re-entry if felted?
Again, it's necessary to teach them that, in this game, they 're not at the table to marvel at the multitude of wonderful combinations a deck of cards can produce, but just to take the opponents' chips; this may mean that we 'll never see "what would have happened". Happiness in that game is not about making hands, but about taking chips.

I taught some poker to my 8-year old godson last summer, after which the kid enquired his mom about the possibility of enrolling in a poker class.

 

[Alex Lundstrum]

My sons are 10 and 7 and often want to play. I give them chips and quiz them on every street during (most) hands. I ask them what the best possible hand and draw is at every street. I ask them how many cards are left in the deck to make the draws. Other skills are harder to teach with just the three of us playing, but I figure, at the very worst they learn to understand some odds and maybe even get better at math.

Definitely like the idea of quizzing on draws. Making new players aware of possible draws sets up future lessons on counting outs, rule of 4 and 2, etc. Which will lead eventually to discussions on ranges.

 

[moose]

I think newbies want to play a tournament that they can win. You can make the prizes something fun like chocolate bars. I think you should hand out hand range charts by position so they know what to play where.

 

[ruskba]

Along the lines of the quiz, one thing that should be taught from the very beginning is hand reading. What do you have, and how does that compare against the best possible hand. It starts getting into the weeds when people might be seeing monsters under the bed (he could have had quads so I folded my full house!) but I think it’s a concept that is overlooked.

 

[Hobbyphilic]

This is a great question. My 5 year old likes to play poker but still doesn't get strategy ideas. There is a lot of good advice above. I'd get him watching Doug Polk or Andrew Neeme when he's not actually playing.

Best of luck.

 

[Poker Zombie]

There are two levels to teaching newbies poker.

1. How to play. This doesn't take long, but this is where you create a lifelong love for the game. Teach them their options (check, fold, bet, raise). This is where you teach etiquette as well. No sting bets, act in turn. This step is crucial to learn before you are taught any strategy. I've taught literally hundreds of people how to play games with the intent to get them to buy the game. I have never taught strategy with the rules.
2. How you play. Once the basic have been mastered you play a game where you turn your hand face up at the end of the hand. You get to play your best game and explain the "whys" of every single hand. This is where newbies learn in a game environment how rarely you bluff, and how pot-odds influence when you chase. Chances are great that they will also show their hands - everyone I taught this way has, because they want to know when a move was right or wrong.

I too am in the camp that it should be taught tournament style. When there is no money on the line, there is still a winning aspect. Cash games require cash, otherwise jam-reload is without consequences. The tournament can be short - 2 hours, with a break. If they want more after 2 hours, just play another one. The tournament should allow for lots of small denom chips per player. Newbies limp a lot. Let them. They will learn on their own but will stop limping when they have cut into their mid-range chips.

I have 4x6 cards that I use to teach. Side A:

Side B:

The formatting is a little messed up (I printed the cards a couple computers ago and don't have the right font now apparently), but you get the idea. The early levels are deep stacked - this allows for errors without serious consequences.

If you are eliminated from the tournament, give each player a chip that they can exchange for a private strategy conference when they get in a tight spot. Take them to the side and explain why you think they should fold (rarely have I ever had anyone ask and they had a calling or raising hand). I use a 4x6 card for this as well, but a bounty chip or something similar would work as well.

My cards are meant for use during live games, so they are worded to prevent the "helper" from gathering additional information. For your learning game, it wouldn't be necessary, because no money should be at risk.

 

[navels]

All great stuff, thanks everyone! Will report back!

 

[navels]

Well it went great! We ended up playing 1/2 but for no money. Everybody got a $200 stack. It went something like this:

We started out with

- everyone had a hand ranking cheat sheet
- we spent a few minutes going over the hand rankings
- I explained that I would be dealing and how the button and blinds work.
- at the end of each hand we turned all the cards face up and we talked about what hands people made and what were the possible nuts, etc.

We did a few orbits this way and of course it was a limp-fest.

Then I gave everybody a pre-flop starting hand chart:



and explained the importance of folding garbage pre-flop. I also explained why limping was generally not good strategy, and then we played with:

- folding according to the chart
- never limping. I suggested the first to raise make it $6.

and we playing a few more orbits like that. I told the big blind that they could play anything close to the red because they already had $2 in the pot.

Then I played a hand without looking at my cards. After the flop checked around I bet the turn and took it down and told everyone what I had just done and why it was important to bluff. By then they all recognized that whiffing the flop was a common occurrence and so therefore when there were only a few players in the pot bluffing could be good strategy. And I pointed out that I knew everyone was weak because the flop had checked around. (Yes, this is level 1 ABC poker . . .)

Then we talked more about betting. I tried to explain why we bet (pre 2019 reasoning: to get value from worse or to get better to fold). Not everyone totally understood this but okay. Then we played an orbit where everyone would limp and we would stop on the flop and I would explain that you had to bet if you had

- top pair w/ good kicker or better
- flush draw
- straight draw

and why this would make it hard to know if you had a good hand or were bluffing. And the importance of bluffing with a hand that could become nuttish on later streets, rather than with total air. We then played a couple more orbits where I told them do whatever they wanted in terms of hand selection and limping as long as they were betting post-flop according to those rules above.

We also played some bomb pots and double-board bomb pots for fun.

In all we played for maybe four hours and everyone had a great time and learned a lot. It was fun! And the kid got pocket aces on the very last hand of the night!

 

[navels]

The kid was rivering me constantly, which was hilarious fun by the end of the night. My wife and I were the only ones to bust and have to "rebuy".

 

[sheikh617]

I'll have my daughter playing as soon as she's ready . For now she likes to handle chips while I shuffle a tiki barrel. 2 years and 8 months old!

 

[allforcharity]

And to anyone that might know anyone that thinks teaching poker or other "gambling" games to children just sets them up for a lifetime of debauchery, this is no different than teaching them to play any other strategic card game or board game or whatever. Think of other people's chip stacks as the victory points that you need to get to win.
And, like music, those who learn the value of cards and hands and odds of getting them will do better than their peers in math.

 

[JScott]

And to anyone that might know anyone that thinks teaching poker or other "gambling" games to children just sets them up for a lifetime of debauchery, this is no different than teaching them to play any other strategic card game or board game or whatever. Think of other people's chip stacks as the victory points that you need to get to win.
And, like music, those who learn the value of cards and hands and odds of getting them will do better than their peers in math.

funny thing is my family is out here visiting (for the month apparently thanks to covid) and my dad taught me poker but thinks I’m a total degen just for playing.

Turns out my uncle ended up hundreds of thousands in debt because of VLT’s and my dad bailed him out. Spent all night tonight explaining how comparing my poker nights to that situation is like saying the glass of whisky we had this evening was akin to being a raging alcoholic.

I consider the bankroll management a great skill, never mind figuring out the math and learning to read people.

 

[RowlettTexasChipGuy]

I taught both my daughters and most of their friends, now my oldest is in college and she plays with the frat guys and cleans house, they think a pretty blonde girl doesn't know how to play, boy are they wrong

while I was teaching them I did offer advice to all of them, but we always played for something, be it chores or change, told them something ha d to be on the line so it was worth winning

 

[Poker Zombie]

Pretty Blonde Girl: "I'm re-raising, all in"

College boy: Looks down at pocket aces. Looks at the table of frat boys that will pester him relentlessly the rest of the night... nay, semester, if he sends the pretty blonde packing before she finishes her first drink.

You know his response is going to be "fold".

It's a no-brainer.

 

[redeagle]

College game with pretty girls? I raise one t-shirt!

 

[allforcharity]

Pretty Blonde Girl: "I'm re-raising, all in"

College boy: Looks down at pocket aces. Looks at the table of frat boys that will pester him relentlessly the rest of the night... nay, semester, if he sends the pretty blonde packing before she finishes her first drink.

You know his response is going to be "fold".

It's a no-brainer.

Or else it moves on to suggesions of strip poker after that.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Or else it moves on to suggesions of strip poker after that.

I only avoided that aspect because it is Rowlett's daughter.

...but it was the first thing I thought too.

 

[allforcharity]

I only avoided that aspect because it is Rowlett's daughter.

...but it was the first thing I thought too.

Purely theoretical scenario, nothing more.

 

[detroitdad]

I taught both my daughters and most of their friends, now my oldest is in college and she plays with the frat guys and cleans house, they think a pretty blonde girl doesn't know how to play, boy are they wrong

while I was teaching them I did offer advice to all of them, but we always played for something, be it chores or change, told them something ha d to be on the line so it was worth winning

I agree. There has to be some juice in the game. We would often play for chores, and/or who picks the movie on movie night? Sometimes the winner would get to pick where we went to dinner.

 

[redeagle]

I agree. There has to be some juice in the game. We would often play for chores, and/or who picks the movie on movie night? Sometimes the winner would get to pick where we went to dinner.

@detroitdad How about making the losers were Spartan shirts.

Go Blue!!

 

[Rhodeman77]

By 11-12 years old they should have enough math to understand fractions and percentages. And to really help sink the basics of math and odds I would look to play limit to start. It keeps the betting simple. There is only one amount to bet or raise. Playing trash hands doesn’t get rewarded like it can in deep no limit games where you can win a persons stack potentially. In limit the lucky trash hand wins a pot, not a stack. And the majority of them that lose will show how fast a stack can disappear.

 

[detroitdad]

Screw starting with Hold'em. Start them off with draw2maha and scarney

 

[Poker Zombie]

Bill's grandchildren...

 

[Sal Bandini]

Pretty Blonde Girl: "I'm re-raising, all in"

College boy: Looks down at pocket aces. Looks at the table of frat boys that will pester him relentlessly the rest of the night... nay, semester, if he sends the pretty blonde packing before she finishes her first drink.

You know his response is going to be "fold".

It's a no-brainer.

 

[DeeVee8]

Hand him a copy of Super System.

 

[redeagle]

Hand him a copy of Super System.

He will have to wait about 12 years until the kid is old enough to lift it.
It's better than weight training with dumbells, reading that book.

 

[legend672]

The first word I ever spoke was poker. My father loved it. My mother, not so much.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Gotta help them find a passion for the game first. Play lots of card games, not just poker. I grew up playing poker, cribbage, hearts, rummy, go fish, bullshit, you name it. Get uses to the cards, shuffling and dealing, ranks and suits. If it feels like work its too much. It has to be fun. Set the kindling and build the fire slowly.