Tourney T3500 Deep Stack - Starting chi count? (2 Viewers)

darthEez

High Hand
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Messages
62
Reaction score
218
Rewards
0
Location
Michigan
Doing a T3500 deep stack tournament (rebuys before first break).

I have plenty of chips for any combo: 5s, 25s, 100s, 500s, 1000s, 5000s.

I’m thinking along the lines:
5x15
25x17
100x20
500x2

Pic shows this setup.

Not sure though. Would love to put in the 1K chip just because it’s a color we rarely use (usually T2000 tournament) but I feel it’s unecessarily big to start with.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    192.8 KB · Views: 261
5x15
25x17
100x15
500x3

May be better. Could use 100,500,1000 chip values for rebuys and they chip down with people at the table.
 
I generally prefer more chips, so I'd be fine playing with that breakdown. I might drop the hundos to 15 and add another T500, but that setup definitely works.

On the other hand, it would confuse the bejesus out of me if I was playing with a non-denominated black T500, green T100, and a white T25.

Can you switch the T500 to white and keep the other denoms the traditional colors?
 
I generally prefer more chips, so I'd be fine playing with that breakdown. I might drop the hundos to 15 and add another T500, but that setup definitely works.

On the other hand, it would confuse the bejesus out of me if I was playing with a non-denominated black T500, green T100, and a white T25.

Can you switch the T500 to white and keep the other denoms the traditional colors?

Lol understood. The issue with this set is I have the most in order: red, white, green, black, purple, yellow, blue. So I’ve always done their values in order of their counts. The group I play with is 75% occasional players (home games only) so they aren’t programmed to traditional colors. Also havedenomination values up on a big screen with tournament display.
 
Lol understood. The issue with this set is I have the most in order: red, white, green, black, purple, yellow, blue.

Here's the thing... If you bring that info to a forum like this, we're going to recommend something fun. A NEW SET! Hop on those new sunfly hybrid ceramics offered at OWPS. Those are some great looking chips.

The group I play with is 75% occasional players (home games only) so they aren’t programmed to traditional colors. Also havedenomination values up on a big screen with tournament display.

Understood. Good idea to have the values posted, and it definitely sounds like it works for the majority of your group. That being said, if I was part of the 25%, I would be a bit tilted!

New chips...(y) :thumbsup:
 
Here's the thing... If you bring that info to a forum like this, we're going to recommend something fun. A NEW SET! Hop on those new sunfly hybrid ceramics offered at OWPS. Those are some great looking chips.



Understood. Good idea to have the values posted, and it definitely sounds like it works for the majority of your group. That being said, if I was part of the 25%, I would be a bit tilted!

New chips...(y) :thumbsup:
I agree! And thanks for the recommendation on the type. My plan is to first get a new cash game set (played more often here) and continue using these for tournaments until I can swing some more.
 
Btw, the poker room is coming along! Been working on it as I can the past year or so from bare bone studs. Built both tables as well. I continue to be inspired by everyone on this forum!
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    146.2 KB · Views: 250
Btw, the poker room is coming along! Been working on it as I can the past year or so from bare bone studs. Built both tables as well. I continue to be inspired by everyone on this forum!

Looks great! I'd love to have a dedicated game room for sure. It's coming after we move, but for now the folding table does the duty. Nice work!
 
I think your breakdown looks good if your want plenty of chips. Assume 5/10 starting level?

Have you thought about using a T10k structure? 25/50 starting blinds. If you have the chips to support it, it might be fun for your players if you usually play a T2k.

Awesome looking room, love the brick wall.

Another vote for the recent Sunfly Hybrids, Sal did an awesome job with these designs and there are multiple great options.

Spring for the 43mm, they are awesome.

Can't resist posting mine every chance I get ;)

DSC_2839.JPG DSC_2841.JPG DSC_2846.JPG DSC_2857.JPG
 
As I was building the stacks I thought about just doing T10000. Maybe I will do that still...

Do you have suggestions for T10k breakdown with 5-6 colors? I feel there are tons of resources I can find for that format though with a little looking.

Love those chips!
 
I use a 12/12/7/5 usually. 25/100/500/1000 respectively.

Just do a forum search for T10K and you should see plenty of threads. It's a pretty popular starting stack size.
 
@v1pe has a good suggestion, but in the meantime what are your chip counts for what you currently have?
Ok so I have a combined set with a friend so I sat down and counted - yeah missing a couple reds over the 10+ years. I’m surprised I have more green than white but he had a lot in his set.

  • 398 red
  • 350 green
  • 300 white
  • 200 black
  • 150 blue
  • 50 yellow
  • 50 purple
Doing an 18 max tourney with rebuys. Likely will have more like 15 though with only a few rebuys this time.
 
Doing a T3500 deep stack tournament (rebuys before first break).

I have plenty of chips for any combo: 5s, 25s, 100s, 500s, 1000s, 5000s.

I’m thinking along the lines:
5x15
25x17
100x20
500x2
  • 398 red
  • 350 green
  • 300 white
  • 200 black
  • 150 blue
  • 50 yellow
  • 50 purple
Doing an 18 max tourney with rebuys.

Not a fan of stack sizes that big, it just slows down the game. If going T5-base T3500 tourney (350 BB with 5/10 opening blinds) for 18 players, I'd do the following:

10 x T5 - red (need 180, set has 398)
10 x T25 - green (need 180, set has 350)
7 x T100 - black (need 126, set has 200)
5 x T500 - blue (need 101 including 11x for T5/T25 color-ups, set has 150)
------------
32 chips = T3500

Color-up the T100s with 13 x T1000 (yellow), and use three yellows and one blue for the T3500 re-buys.

You can also drop the starting stack to T3000 (one less T500), which is still a hefty 300BB but makes for a more manageable format with the re-buys (just 3 x yellow T1000s each). A typical blind structure with 40% average increases will last about 4.5 hours plus breaks using 15-minute blind levels (6 hours with 20-minute levels), usually ending by the 1500/3000 level either way.

As I was building the stacks I thought about just doing T10000. Maybe I will do that still...

Do you have suggestions for T10k breakdown with 5-6 colors?
If wanting to play a T25-base tourney, I'd recommend the following T15000 tourney (300BB with 25/50 opening blinds), which will play similarly to the T3500 structure above:

8 x T25 - green (need 144, set has 350)
8 x T100 - black (need 144, set has 200)
6 x T500 - blue (need 108, set has 150)
6 x T1000 - white (need 127 including 19x for T25/T100 color-ups, set has 300)
1 x T5000 - yellow (need 29 including 11x for T500 color-up, set has 50)
------------
29 chips = T15000


The issue with this set is I have the most in order: red, white, green, black, purple, yellow, blue. So I’ve always done their values in order of their counts. The group I play with is 75% occasional players (home games only) so they aren’t programmed to traditional colors.
The problem with this approach is that you are doing those players a disservice if they ever go elsewhere to play...... including almost any casino, home game, or bar game (except in California). And any players who do already play elsewhere are forced to learn a new color scheme at your game with chips that have no denominations on them. If your set can support it, you are better off using "standard" colors.
 
Fantastic as usual BGinGA - thanks again. I think I’ll take the advice of all three of you and switch up the colors - especially since I have enough now with the extra sets. Until I can swing some new chips of course.

Cheers!

I’ll post back how it went after Friday.
 
One more question about chip colors then. Currently I use the same chips for cash games (I will get new chips ASAP and keep the two separate). We currently play .05/.1 but I plan to switch to .25/.25. In that case should I be doing:

$0.25: green
$1: white
$5: blue (save reds for 5 cent if we ever play that again...maybe.)

Or should the $1 be black to better match the tournament setup above?
 
I think it would be smarter to buy a cheap set of Walmart chips for the cash game, than risk hosting a cash game immediately following a tournament that uses the same chips.

A single error -- a misplaced tournament chip that gets introduced into the cash game -- could literally cost you as much as that entire set of temporary cheapo chips, not to mention the unnessessary grief and angst it would cause.
 
First attempt at the T15000 structure.
 

Attachments

  • 7712FC4E-92F5-434F-9217-12F4E8699E1E.png
    7712FC4E-92F5-434F-9217-12F4E8699E1E.png
    217.9 KB · Views: 580
First attempt at the T15000 structure.
7712fc4e-92f5-434f-9217-12f4e8699e1e-png.139403
A few minor suggestions:
  • Use 25/75 instead of 50/75 in L2. The ~total~ blinds increase (33% vs your 67%) is more consistent with the rest of the structure.
  • Add a 800/1600 level after L10. The current increase is 67% (vs 33%), and changing 1000/2000 to 1200/2400 allows for a subsequent 50% increase, and provides a natural point for the T100 color-up (breaks every six levels).
  • Likewise, add a 4000/8000 level after your L14 for the same reasons listed above, keeping the range of increases narrower and more consistent across the structure.
Below is your modified structure incorporating those suggestions, which now has an average 40% blind increase. Typical event will end no later than L17 (5000/10000), or 4:15 plus breaks.

lvl sb bb incr
L1 25 50 ---
L2 25 75 33%
L3 50 100 50%
L4 75 150 50%
L5 100 200 33%
L6 150 300 50%
remove T25 chips
L7 200 400 33%
L8 300 600 50%
L9 400 800 33%
L10 600 1200 50%
L11 800 1600 33%
L12 1200 2400 50%
remove T100 chips
L13 1500 3000 25%
L14 2000 4000 33%
L15 3000 6000 50%
L16 4000 8000 33%
L17 5000 10000 25% ***
L18 7500 15000 50%
remove T500 chips
L19 10000 20000 33%
L20 15000 30000 50%
 
I think you have too many chips of some colors. I've found the optimum number of chips at the lower levels is 10-12. I bought tournament chips sets for up to 30 players, with 40 max. However, I rarely have over 20. I decided to double the chips for the 40-player set up (8x25; 8x100). We seem to have just as much change making with 16 and 16 as we did with 8 and 8. I frequently became the change bank because I tend to bet the highest chip value for my bet instead of a large stack of smaller ones.

My objective was to get as many of my chips in play as possible since my two primary tournament sets are only currently used about 7 times a year each. But that required a lot more work than necessary, so I went with 12 and 12. Less change made than either other way, and fewer people getting massive amounts of the smaller value chips because I think (haven't really tested this) people tend to not overuse the smaller chips.

My general rule is no more than 10 or 12 of any one color in a stack.

My best suggestion: Well, I know this is a chip site, but what I'm going to tell you is shocking. You may not believe this advice, especially on here. GET ANOTHER CHIP SET!

The set you have might be OK for a cash game, but for tournaments, it's not well suited (in my opinion). I generally agree with the "stick with standard colors" advice, even if your players don't play elsewhere. It may help to define those so I will -- white or blue = 1; red = 5; green = 25; black = 100; purple or lavender = 500; yellow or orange = 1000. After that, standard colors don't mean as much because I don't think they are standard. But you could look to this as a guide -- if the # starts with a 5, something in the red or blue range, though for 5,000 I've seen gray and brown; 25 -- generally green or blue range; 1 -- white, blue, yellow, orange. Players who play in more than one venue with undenominated chips will sometimes get confused when they have to remember that game's colors. Posting it is great, but in the heat of battle, mistakes will be made. Those who only play there will not likely understand those mistakes because they have no other frame of reference.

Get denominated chips. Colors matter a lot less with denominated chips. Even at that, I prefer standard colors. Denominated chips make a lot of things easier. That allows you to buy a set ideally suited to your needs. Just plan on buying for more players when they come, and your game may change over time. Players can be funny. Our game for years started with 10,000 (200 BB). Then I picked up players from a game where they started with 15,000 (300 BB) with blind times half the length of ours, and one re-buy was allowed, or an add-on after the break (at that point, only 15 BB). Players thought we didn't give enough in chips, so I went to 15,000, and then people started talking about the WSOP giving out 30,000 (well, selling you 30,000 in chips for $10,000). So I went to 25,000 (500 BB). Players loved the bigger stacks. Then I started doing 35,000 with a 5,000 on-time bonus, but started blinds at 50/100 (350 or 400 BB). I'm not sure what to make of players telling me they love the bigger chip stacks since I measure chip stacks according to the starting blinds. Some of those compliments come from good players who seem to be pretty good at math. I never learned the new math, so maybe I'm missing something.

Much has been written in this forum about separate chip sets for cash and tournaments. Don't mix them and you will never have the issues come up. But I still like denominated chips. So my answer, again shocking, is get a denominated tournament set AND a denominated cash set.

Two decent sets ideally suited for the needs of both games should serve you for many months, and maybe even a year or two before you realize the answer to most poker problem is more chip sets.
 
Last edited:
I think you have too many chips of some colors. I've found the optimum number of chips at the lower levels is 10-12. I bought tournament chips sets for up to 30 players, with 40 max. However, I rarely have over 20. I decided to double the chips for the 40-player set up (8x25; 8x100). We seem to have just as much change making with 16 and 16 as we did with 8 and 8. I frequently became the change bank because I tend to bet the highest chip value for my bet instead of a large stack of smaller ones.

My objective was to get as many of my chips in play as possible since my two primary tournament sets are only currently used about 7 times a year each. But that required a lot more work than necessary, so I went with 12 and 12. Less change made than either other way, and fewer people getting massive amounts of the smaller value chips because I think (haven't really tested this) people tend to not overuse the smaller chips.

My general rule is no more than 10 or 12 of any one color in a stack.

My best suggestion: Well, I know this is a chip site, but what I'm going to tell you is shocking. You may not believe this advice, especially on here. GET ANOTHER CHIP SET!

The set you have might be OK for a cash game, but for tournaments, it's not well suited (in my opinion). I generally agree with the "stick with standard colors" advice, even if your players don't play elsewhere. It may help to define those so I will -- white or blue = 1; red = 5; green = 25; black = 100; purple or lavender = 500; yellow or orange = 1000. After that, standard colors don't mean as much because I don't think they are standard. But you could look to this as a guide -- if the # starts with a 5, something in the red or blue range, though for 5,000 I've seen gray and brown; 25 -- generally green or blue range; 1 -- white, blue, yellow, orange. Players who play in more than one venue with undenominated chips will sometimes get confused when they have to remember that game's colors. Posting it is great, but in the heat of battle, mistakes will be made. Those who only play there will not likely understand those mistakes because they have no other frame of reference.

Get denominated chips. Colors matter a lot less with denominated chips. Even at that, I prefer standard colors. Denominated chips make a lot of things easier. That allows you to buy a set ideally suited to your needs. Just plan on buying for more players when they come, and your game may change over time. Players can be funny. Our game for years started with 10,000 (200 BB). Then I picked up players from a game where they started with 15,000 (300 BB) with blind times half the length of ours, and one re-buy was allowed, or an add-on after the break (at that point, only 15 BB). Players thought we didn't give enough in chips, so I went to 15,000, and then people started talking about the WSOP giving out 30,000 (well, selling you 30,000 in chips for $10,000). So I went to 25,000 (500 BB). Players loved the bigger stacks. Then I started doing 35,000 with a 5,000 on-time bonus, but started blinds at 50/100 (350 or 400 BB). I'm not sure what to make of players telling me they love the bigger chip stacks since I measure chip stacks according to the starting blinds. Some of those compliments come from good players who seem to be pretty good at math. I never learned the new math, so maybe I'm missing something.

Much has been written in this forum about separate chip sets for cash and tournaments. Don't mix them and you will never have the issues come up. But I still like denominated chips. So my answer, again shocking, is get a denominated tournament set AND a denominated cash set.

Two decent sets ideally suited for the needs of both games should serve you for many months, and maybe even a year or two before you realize the answer to most poker problem is more chip sets.
Thanks for the info! I really appreciate hearing and learning from people who have hosted for a while. My home game started about a year ago and has slowly grown. I love hosting and want to provide the best experience for my players (mostly very casual players). New chips are definitely at the top of my todo list. Also I’ve rarely played in casinos so I’m glad you all shined a light on my clear faux pa of weird chip color/denoms. This forum rocks!

Started setting up last night, here are some pics for fun.
 

Attachments

  • E7BF26A3-8A6C-45A9-B614-8304FFB41C12.jpeg
    E7BF26A3-8A6C-45A9-B614-8304FFB41C12.jpeg
    107.5 KB · Views: 237
  • E90C5934-CA54-4810-97E2-5F9EC527DDE4.jpeg
    E90C5934-CA54-4810-97E2-5F9EC527DDE4.jpeg
    76 KB · Views: 242
  • 05811756-6834-46C4-9BA1-60B2301BAA4B.jpeg
    05811756-6834-46C4-9BA1-60B2301BAA4B.jpeg
    151.9 KB · Views: 251
  • EF04DA4B-3610-4D7B-9B0F-CD3637ADCE61.jpeg
    EF04DA4B-3610-4D7B-9B0F-CD3637ADCE61.jpeg
    113.4 KB · Views: 234
  • 6BC74727-456A-4829-84B0-B59BBC60618B.jpeg
    6BC74727-456A-4829-84B0-B59BBC60618B.jpeg
    120.9 KB · Views: 235
I'm curious about a couple of things.

Is that two different orange tops, or the same one in perhaps different light?
Is that orange hard on the eyes? I'd think it would be. I have a red table topper and it's too bright for me.

I like your set up! What is the blinds program? I love the screen and wish I could do something like that.
 
I'm curious about a couple of things.

Is that two different orange tops, or the same one in perhaps different light?
Is that orange hard on the eyes? I'd think it would be. I have a red table topper and it's too bright for me.

I like your set up! What is the blinds program? I love the screen and wish I could do something like that.
Thanks! 1 orange top (oval), 1 blue top (octagon). It’s probably the fancy filters I used on a couple photos that make it look different . I think the orange pops even more on the photos than in person - I don’t think it’s hard on the eyes and I’ve had no complaints so far. It was tough finding that suit speed cloth color though. It was a toss up between purple and orange for me and I’m really happy with the orange - would do it again. I think it’s “blaze orange” for reference. I have found a couple card backs give a weird almost optical illusion against the orange but I’ve been able to find complimentary colors from desjn and copag.

The blinds program is actually one I wrote running on a Fire TV (android app). I’m an app/game developer by trade so I combined passions there. I plan to eventually release it in the wild but right now it’s tailored specifically to my game and chip images.
 
Thanks for the info. It's hard to judge by pics sometimes. I got a red topper and couldn't wait to use it. After 3 hours of playing on it, I had a headache, which I attributed to something else. After a couple of other uses though, I found I could eliminate other things. None of my players have complained, but that could just be them being polite.
 
FYI this tournament and structure worked awesome! Thanks all for the help. Right on target for timing. And you will all be happy to hear that I bought a new cash set - Majestics. And have a bunch of samples to decide on a tournament set.

All with clear denominations
 
Quick pics
 

Attachments

  • BC82F20A-E96E-4AE7-A0F1-F17BA53D4CB6.jpeg
    BC82F20A-E96E-4AE7-A0F1-F17BA53D4CB6.jpeg
    155 KB · Views: 189
  • 276DC1CC-B8F6-4699-9A68-BEA870173464.jpeg
    276DC1CC-B8F6-4699-9A68-BEA870173464.jpeg
    200.1 KB · Views: 193

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom