Tourney T25 base - 8/8/4/7 vs 12/12/5/6 (1 Viewer)

Which starting stack do you prefer?

  • 8/8/4/7

    Votes: 11 13.3%

  • 12/12/5/6

    Votes: 72 86.7%
  • Total voters
    83
12/12/5/6 works the best, no question. Too much change making with only 8 T25 and T100 chips each. The only way I'd do 8/8/4/7 is if I really, really wanted to get a certain set of chips into play one night and didn't have enough to cover 12/12/5/6 stacks.
 
Ben8257 said:
Just because I leave Joe doesn't mean people don't remember that Ben guy wanting to make shirts that say "8/8/6/6 SUCKS" needless to say my vote was for option B!
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7e5ebf66-a781-41ec-988b-c8ff6e7fd743_text.gif
 
I voted 8/8/4/7 to give some credit to the fact that the 8/8/4 is 20 chips and fit in a rack perfectly, so for a single table set you can have a perfectly usable set that is only 300 chips and just need 3 racks. And I've got a single table tournament set with that chip breakdown below. (I only have 80 of the greens, so 8 chips per person will have to do.)
4-rack-closeup2

4-rack-closeup2

T-3000 starting stacks made up of:
8 - $25 Mark Twain (secondary?) Lagrange, MO
8 - $100...

If I have enough chips to go around, I'd probably do a 12/12/x/x breakdown. I also think 12/12/3/7 works fine, too. (as everyone knows the 500 to 1000 jump is only 2x, so you don't need a lot of 500s in play.)
 
Maybe not so surprising. I know "moar is better", but if your average chip cost is reaching $10-20 per chip then you're looking for the most efficient breakdown possible, unless you have money to burn.
 
BPTDirector said:
I e truly done both, no problem with either. I do prefer more chips though, lol. Now the only way I’d do 8/8/…. Is if I was doing 40 players. I have 4 sets that could do that with 8/8/7/5. It try to do two tables max since my stroke. I could be coaxed though.
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Yeah, all due respect to Ben and others, but I've played 8/8 whatever countless times and it's fine. Sure, if I'm not paying for the chips, 12/12 is better. But 8/8 is fine and it is close and it doesn't suck. So I don't want to vote. Do I prefer 12/12? Sure. Do I really care? No.
 
I use 8/8 so i can save money (100+ players). sure if i had the set big enough i'd do 12/12.

having a 12/12 set that can also work as 8/8 (24/24 sized) if you need it is probably my vote.
 
If there are a bunch of early rebuys, then 8/8/4/7 is more okay imho. Our long running T5k turbo rebuy donkament flip-fest was fine with 8/8/8, but is probably not the kind of game you’re looking to play.
 
If incorporating a BBA, more chips on the table is highly beneficial -- and of ALL denoms, not just the lower two denominations.

For this reason, 8/8/6/6 is actually better than 8/8/4/7 for BBA events (adding T1000s with color-ups), although both are woefully short of both T25 and T100 chips in a format that really needs extras.

And for the same reason, 12/12/7/5 is actually better than 12/12/5/6 for BBA events, while 16/16/8/4 is probably the optimal configuration.

But ultimately, T25-base events really shouldn't use a BBA, which works much better with a T100-base set (using minimum 20k stacks of 15/9/9/1 or 15/7/10/1, adding T5000s with color-ups).


For non-ante events, 12/12/5/6 is better than 8/8/x/x, and also promotes looser play than equal-value stacks containing fewer physical chips.
 
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I've not played with the BBA. I have done 8/8/x/x, 12/12/3, 5, and 7/x, and 16/16/x/x. In order of preference with comments:
  1. 12/12/3, 5, and 7/x -- I think this is the best player experience that leads to less change making than either of the others.
  2. 16/16/x/x -- I would do this when I first cut down from 3 tables to 2, thinking it would mostly eliminate change-making. I was wrong on the change making. Players tended to bet a lot of their T25s and T100s. In a bet of up to 300, they might use 12 T25s; for a bet of 1,000, they would use 10 T100s. A few players would wind up with large stacks of either T25 or T100. I was usually one of them since I usually bet using the fewest chips if I can. I didn't hate it, but when I went back to 12/12xx, players seemed to use their chips more logically. I liked that it got more chips on the table at the lowest levels. The 12/12 was less change making, but 16/16/x/x was much more change making than I would have suspected before doing it.
  3. 8/8/x/x -- I used this several times. It was the most efficient for putting the fewest chips in play and take down afterward, however, for the players, regardless of betting habits, it involved the most change-making. I played in a game for a while that did 4xT25 (base) and 4xT50. That involved a lot of change making. Worst for playing experience I've ever seen.
One host came to my game (well-known, has a great setup, several chip sets, and knows his stuff). That night I did 8/8. Afterward I asked for his advice. He was quick to suggest 12/12 and explained my set up was chip efficient, made set up and take down easier, but required more change making, so not as good a player experience. I'll always be grateful for that advice. I reasoned 16/16 might be even better, so I tried it a few times. It was slightly more work for host, particularly in take down, but it got a lot of chips in play. However, it was the change-making that convinced me go back to and stick with 12/12.

My chip sets were made for 30 players (3 tables of 10). They could accommodate up to 45 players (maybe 5 tables of 9) using 8/8. I've never had one of my sets manage more than 3 tables, but I'd only want to use 8/8 if I truly didn't have enough chips for 12/12.

I'm pretty sure BG is right about more T500s in play with BBA. I didn't see much difference in play or as the host in 3 or 5 T500s. Both worked well, but you would need more, I'm pretty sure, if you played with the BBA. Most recently I've used 12/12/5/xx because I had the T500s. It does make for a good player experience. I noticed slightly more change making with only 3 T500s, but not enough to really matter.

When you have T1000s, you can use fewer T500s, but I think 5 is better than 3. I've used 7 and thought it was (slightly) too many, but that was without BBA. It did get more chips in play, but that was never truly my goal.
 
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Himewad said:
Everyone at my home games - if they saw this poll - would be asking me, “what about 20/20/15/10/2?”
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Funny...I played in someone's tourney for the first time recently. We started with: 20/20/10/3/1 of 25/50/100/500/1000 for a T5000 stack. It was absurd. The 25s were completely obsolete after L1. We didn't even color anything up until L8 or so. I was so confused. It was a true test of self restraint :LOL: :laugh:.

I haven't run a tournament for quite some time but I just ordered a T100 set. If I were doing T25 I'd do 12/12/x but flexible to 8/8/x for larger events.
 
Nine_high said:
Funny...I played in someone's tourney for the first time recently. We started with: 20/20/10/3/1 of 25/50/100/500/1000 for a T5000 stack. It was absurd. The 25s were completely obsolete after L1. We didn't even color anything up until L8 or so. I was so confused. It was a true test of self restraint :LOL: :laugh:.

I haven't run a tournament for quite some time but I just ordered a T100 set. If I were doing T25 I'd do 12/12/x but flexible to 8/8/x for larger events.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it puts a lot of chips on the table, but we use the T25 chips for 5 levels, and the T100 chips for another 5 or 6 levels. We level up the blinds slower than most just because it's a very social game and we don't want people feeling like they are being forced to go all in too early. Doesn't mean we don't get a bunch of all ins, but at least we know the blind structure isn't making our decision for us.
 
Himewad said:
Yeah, it puts a lot of chips on the table, but we use the T25 chips for 5 levels, and the T100 chips for another 5 or 6 levels. We level up the blinds slower than most just because it's a very social game and we don't want people feeling like they are being forced to go all in too early. Doesn't mean we don't get a bunch of all ins, but at least we know the blind structure isn't making our decision for us.
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You aren't wedging 20x 50s between the 25 and 100 tho.

20/20/x is a lot for my taste but I wouldn't call it absurd. As long as the blind structure and color ups are appropriate I think it's fine.
 
We started out playing 8/8/x and then moved to 12/12/x. It seems to be a little less making change for everyone. If we had more than two tables I would have to go with 8/8/x or order some more chips. So obviously ordering more chips would be the correct option to choose if i find myself hosting more than two tables. I think that not going with that option can possibly get you banned from PCF!!! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
12/12/5/6 in player dealt games or 1-2 tables. Larger games or dealer dealt games work well with 8/8/4/7. For single table games I'd go up to 20/20/×/×.

That said I prefer starting stacks of 5k as a t25 rebuy/add on games with no ante in the blind structure. Single table a 3-5k freeze-out can be very efficient. I could probably grind the heck out of my friends and win more with 10k+ tourneys but those with less patience won't show up after a while. Plus the rebuy/add on option builds the pot a lot and let's me imperceptively press loose for chip advantage early game............rigging the structure is the only advantage I have in home games, lol
 
8/8/4/7 is workable, but 12/12/5/6 is better. And the best feature about designing a set with 12/12/5/x in mind is that it's pretty easy to stretch it to 8/8/4/x in a pinch, even if for smaller stacks.
 
Nine_high said:
Funny...I played in someone's tourney for the first time recently. We started with: 20/20/10/3/1 of 25/50/100/500/1000 for a T5000 stack. It was absurd. The 25s were completely obsolete after L1. We didn't even color anything up until L8 or so. I was so confused. It was a true test of self restraint :LOL: :laugh:.

I haven't run a tournament for quite some time but I just ordered a T100 set. If I were doing T25 I'd do 12/12/x but flexible to 8/8/x for larger events.
Click to expand...

When I started hosting in college (circa 2004), we had a set of 1500 or so super diamonds for tournaments. We did starting stacks of 20/20/15 of green/black/purple and thought that was awesome. Didn't introduce yellow chips until coloring up the green and almost never got pink in play.

I don't remember the exact breakdown, but I remember planning for 20 possible stacks, so it must have been something like 400/400/300/300/100 of 25/100/500/1000/5000.
 

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