Cash Game Super micro Starting stacks (1 Viewer)

[Sparkynutz]

My typical group usually plays very fast paced tourneys for $5 buy in with 2 rebuys available to first two players out.
Their starting stacks suck and everyone is constantly making change. The two brothers that host are very set in their ways and refuse to change their starting stacks etc.
When I host tourneys I do a starting stack more typical of those used by players here.

I just picked up a cash set and would like to try and transition to cash for a couple reasons-
The same people are always rebuying so why not let them rebuy more often for up to big stack on table.
I'd like to incorporate circus games especially more chance than skill based to even out the winnings and make it more fun for everyone.

There are lots of posts about micro stakes starting stacks but I have yet to see one post include 1c chips in the starting stack.

I want to start with-
1c, 5c, 25c chips for first hour with $5 buy in max.
After 1 hour eliminate the 1c bringing in $1 chips.
By now everyone should have a better handle on the circus games and increase rebuy to size of big stack.

What would ideal starting stack be when 1c chips are included?

I'm thinking-
1c x25
5c x20
25c x15

or

1c x20
5c x21
25c x15

Thoughts?

 

[springbox]

1c x 15
5c x 15 17
25c x 16

or

1c x 10
5c x 16 18
25c x 16

You could skip the 1c chip entirely and just use 5c/5c blinds. Then

5c x 15
25c x 17

or

5c x 20
25c x 16

 

[Santa123]

My typical group usually plays very fast paced tourneys for $5 buy in with 2 rebuys available to first two players out.
Their starting stacks suck and everyone is constantly making change. The two brothers that host are very set in their ways and refuse to change their starting stacks etc.
When I host tourneys I do a starting stack more typical of those used by players here.

I just picked up a cash set and would like to try and transition to cash for a couple reasons-
The same people are always rebuying so why not let them rebuy more often for up to big stack on table.
I'd like to incorporate circus games especially more chance than skill based to even out the winnings and make it more fun for everyone.

There are lots of posts about micro stakes starting stacks but I have yet to see one post include 1c chips in the starting stack.

I want to start with-
1c, 5c, 25c chips for first hour with $5 buy in max.
After 1 hour eliminate the 1c bringing in $1 chips.
By now everyone should have a better handle on the circus games and increase rebuy to size of big stack.

What would ideal starting stack be when 1c chips are included?

I'm thinking-
1c x25
5c x20
25c x15

or

1c x20
5c x21
25c x15

Thoughts?

What will be your intital blinds? 1c/2c. If this is the case just search for 1/2 which is the same. Same denominations just instead of dollars cents.

 

[FestiveKnight]

1c x 15
5c x 15
25c x 16

or

1c x 10
5c x 16
25c x 16

You could skip the 1c chip entirely and just use 5c/5c blinds. Then

5c x 15
25c x 17

or

5c x 20
25c x 16

5¢/5¢ probably wouldn’t work with capping buy in at $5 for the first hour. That’s only 100 BB which it sounds like some folks can easily punt in an hour.

I like the second option @springbox proposed with 10 pennies. That being said, starting stacks do have a small impact on how people play and can (theoretically) be used to manipulate play. To that end, you could try to limit the pennies on the table by giving 8-10 1¢ to the first 4-6 seats and then giving none to the rest and having folks make change if needed. This might have the effect of reducing limping which I imagine happens a lot at these stakes?

 

[Sparkynutz]

1c x 15
5c x 15
25c x 16

or

1c x 10
5c x 16
25c x 16

These don't add up to $5

I was thinking of doing 1c 2c blinds first hour then 5c 5c after

Maybe this breakdown-
1c x20
5c x16
25c x16

 

[JustinInMN]

1c, 5c, 25c chips for first hour with $5 buy in max.
After 1 hour eliminate the 1c bringing in $1 chips.
By now everyone should have a better handle on the circus games and increase rebuy to size of big stack.

In cash games you don't typically change the stakes. If you are still targeting a $5 buy-in, I do think doing 100B or a 5c BB makes sense. You can do 5c-5c no problem. The question is, are your players comfortable doing $5 buy-in 2-3x in a night. Because it is the nature of cash to go to the felt and lose once in a while. If they are not comfortable with this, then I would consider instead doing 1c-2c with a $2 buy in instead.

 

[JustinInMN]

I was thinking of doing 1c 2c blinds first hour then 5c 5c after

Maybe this breakdown-
1c x20
5c x16
25c x16

Oh I see what you mean. You are thinking like a "warm-up" hour and then raise the stakes. If you are doing 1c-2c for the first hour, I would cap buy ins at $2 as well for the first hour to keep the cap consistent at 100BB. You really don't want new players to play 250BB deep. They may lose too quickly and be disinterested in coming back in at higher stakes.

Again, I think it comes down to how much your players are willing to lose in a night and set the max buy in for 30-50% of that figure. No limit cash games are not healthy if everyone just does one bullet and one. Your game will break quickly. I think you consider this question, then decide between 1c-2c with a 2.00 max, or 5c-5c with a 5.00 max.

 

[Sparkynutz]

It's not uncommon for the worst players to rebuy 4-6 times per night at $5 in the 3-4 fast $5 buy in tourneys the other guys host.

If that player is playing against a deep stack and bought in for more they could lose their whole $20 too fast.
If they get felted $5 a crack they can go all in more times per night.

Some of the circus games I used to play cash games with 2 of these guys (no chips just cash in your wallet or on the table didn't matter) are very long drawn out and bet heavy.
A higher qty of chips would help play these games with what's on the table.

Guess I'll just have to host and see what happens.

 

[JustinInMN]

It's not uncommon for the worst players to rebuy 4-6 times per night at $5 in the 3-4 fast $5 buy in tourneys the other guys host.

If that player is playing against a deep stack and bought in for more they could lose their whole $20 too fast.
If they get felted $5 a crack they can go all in more times per night.

Some of the circus games I used to play cash games with 2 of these guys (no chips just cash in your wallet or on the table didn't matter) are very long drawn out and bet heavy.
A higher qty of chips would help play these games with what's on the table.

Guess I'll just have to host and see what happens.

Ah, in this case probably go ahead and start with 5c-5c, with a $5.00 max buy in. You should probably have a set with something like 100/300/200 of 5c/25c/$1 to accommodate these stakes. This will give you 10 equal stacks of 10/18. Or if you want to get more nickels out early do 20/16 for the first five players and everyone else gets all quarters (and eventually all singles) and makes change.

The total bank would be $285 which is 57 buy-ins at $5 each or 28 buy ins at $10 each. Should be plenty for 1 table.

 

[SteveEH]

The same people are always rebuying so why not let them rebuy more often for up to big stack on table.

Rebuying up to the big stack will give players that study the game a huge advantage over recreational players, and you'll risk losing these recreational players in the long run (although this may not be a big deal at super micro stakes). Limiting the buy in and rebuy cap to 100 BBs helps for a sustainable game.

Ask your players separately how much they're willing to lose in one night, pick the median between all of them, and divide that by 3 so each player has 3 buy ins. Finally, set the blinds based on each buy in.

 

[SteveEH]

Also for cash games, set breakdowns are more important than starting stacks. Just distribute all of your blind and workhorse chips first, start incorporating value chips for rebuys, and get players to make change with the big stacks.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I'm still set on using the one cent chips since I have a lot of them and let players play with those the first couple rounds to learn all these crazy games before increasing to the rest of the nights 5 Cent like everybody says

 

[SteveEH]

I'm still set on using the one cent chips since I have a lot of them and let players play with those the first couple rounds to learn all these crazy games before increasing to the rest of the nights 5 Cent like everybody says

If you've got the chips they should be felted, and once players get used to it, may as well do 2/5 as it'll play the same as 5/5 and you'll get to have more chips on the table!

 

[GreekRedEye]

If you've got the chips they should be felted, and once players get used to it, may as well do 2/5 as it'll play the same as 5/5 and you'll get to have more chips on the table!

This approach would also avoid having to change out the pennies just an hour in. But as this is mostly a tourney crowd, maybe they won't mind a "color up."

I would put more nickels than pennies on the table in the first hour. Once you hit 2c/5c you only need the pennies for the small blind (and maybe antes).

 

[JustinInMN]

The same people are always rebuying so why not let them rebuy more often for up to big stack on table.

Rebuying up to the big stack will give players that study the game a huge advantage over recreational players, and you'll risk losing these recreational players in the long run (although this may not be a big deal at super micro stakes). Limiting the buy in and rebuy cap to 100 BBs helps for a sustainable game.

+1 On Steve's opinion here. It's kind of a farce to allow rebuys up to the largest stack. Then you are just waiting for one big confrontation so suddenly as banker you have to process 6-7 other players that want to add on over one double up. Doing half the big stack rebuys slows this effect down making it a little less frequent that the cap will go up. Someone will have to get to 4x the starting stack to even double the original cap, but it still doesn't solve the problem of 6-7 players wanting to add on at the same time when the cap does increase.

Personally if everyone just wants to play 200BB deep, make that the cap at the outset and be done with it. I don't see the appeal of moving the cap.

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm still set on using the one cent chips since I have a lot of them and let players play with those the first couple rounds to learn all these crazy games before increasing to the rest of the nights 5 Cent like everybody says

That's all well and good, but to be honest if you do this, to protect the players, I reiterate, only do a $2 buy-in with 1c-2c blinds, especially if the purpose is to teach circus games at lower risk.

I guess I was under the impression you didn't have any chips yet so I was trying to work you around needing penny chips. But if you have them already and want do this as a training phase, more power to you. But seriously, lower the buy in cap if you do.

 

[springbox]

These don't add up to $5

I was thinking of doing 1c 2c blinds first hour then 5c 5c after

Maybe this breakdown-
1c x20
5c x16
25c x16

Excuse my math, add 2x5c to my suggested breakdowns. I wouldn't go for 20x1c per player unless you already have all the chips and just wanna get them all in play. From my experience at 5c/10c people sort of skip the lowest denom chip and mostly use it for blinds, so I have more 25c than 5c in play. Same here for the 1c chip vs 5c.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Almost all of the guys would rebuy for $5 and I didn't plan on offering any add ons unless felted just like our tournaments.
I guess $5 or half big stack could work too.
Big stack may even just sell $5 of their chips to get the action going faster or it shouldn't be a problem if 3-4 all ins on same hand rebuy. The rebuy would be $1 chips to get change from big stack.

I have the following breakdown in a Mario cash set I just picked up.
1c x200
5c x200
25c x300
$1 x75
$5 x25

I also have another 1500+chip cash set starting with 5c chips if there's more than Mario chips needed.

 

[DZPoker]

I’ll second what @Santa123 said above. I play 1/2 (cent) with my kids all the time and just think of it myself like a typical 1/2 (dollar) game.

I get your hour of ‘learning’ and would just change it to a 2/5 (cent) game following typical 2/5 (dollar) thinking.

Keep it easy!

 

[exodus]

I'm sure your group of friends are close so it shouldn't be a problem but buying chips from the big stack is usually frowned upon in cash. This is because that money isn't in play anymore, but if you meant that the cash stays on the table and is exchanged for chips then that's perfectly fine.