Tourney Structure with "base 5" chips set : request for feedback (1 Viewer)

[Kid_Eastwood]

Hi,

I'd like to run home game Sit & Go (6 to 10 players) and now busy defining the structure.

My chips breakdown is the following :
- 100 x $5
- 100 x $25
- 80 x $100
- 20 x $500

I plan the following structure with 20' levels.

Starting chips would be 1K, 1.5K or 2K depending on how deep the game would be.

Levels :
5/10
5/15
10/20

15/30
20/40
30/60

40/80
60/120
80/160

100/200
150/300
200/400

300/600
400/800
600/1200

800/1600
1000/2000
1500/3000

As you can see it's a quite progressive structure with maximum blinds increase being 50%.

I expect the game to last 4 hours (end of level 12).

What do you think about this structure ?
Shall I leave it without ante ?

I'm possibly considering this structure with Ante :

5/10
5/15
10/20

15/30
20/40
30/60

30/60 5
40/80 10
60/120 15

80/160 20
100/200 25
150/300 30

200/400 50
300/600 75
400/800 100

600/1200 150
800/1600 200
1000/2000 250

 

[Trihonda]

IMHO antes slow the game down.

The only way I'd introduce antes is with a dedicated dealer, and even then, they slow the game down. I play a weekly tourney w/ dedicated dealers, and the dealers struggle at collecting antes. Sure, they get them alright, and it's not painfully slow, but it probably adds 15 seconds to each hand. and if you're looking at 30 hands/hour, that's 7-8 minutes. I've seen home games with antes and you can't ever get ppl to consistently put in their antes without prodding...

 

[upNdown]

I'm watching, because I'll be running a similar tournament (for the first time) in a few weeks.
Obviously this won't work if you go with antes, but I'd try to tweak the structure a bit to color up the $5's and get them off the table sooner.
Maybe have the blinds go:

5/10
5/15
1020

15/30
25/50
35/75
Then color up the $5's

 

[Psypher1000]

I like it, but with the three changes as noted below:

Levels :
5/15 (was 5/10)
10/20
15/30
20/40
30/60

40/80
-Color up the 5's here-
50/100 (was 60/120)
75/150 (was 80/160)

100/200
150/300
200/400

300/600
400/800
600/1200

800/1600
1000/2000
1500/3000

 

[Wils]

IMHO antes slow the game down.

The only way I'd introduce antes is with a dedicated dealer, and even then, they slow the game down. I play a weekly tourney w/ dedicated dealers, and the dealers struggle at collecting antes. Sure, they get them alright, and it's not painfully slow, but it probably adds 15 seconds to each hand. and if you're looking at 30 hands/hour, that's 7-8 minutes. I've seen home games with antes and you can't ever get ppl to consistently put in their antes without prodding...

Never mind the antes, I'd like to have just one hand where people aren't being reminded about the blinds,

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

In fact I had both 5/10 and 5/15. Why would you cut first level ?

Going from 40/80 to 50/100 I was not considering because it only creates a 20% increase, which is not enough I think.

The antes, I'll forget I think.

Thanks for the suggestions !

To have the color-up sooner I could maybe have :

5/10
5/15 = 33% blinds increase
10/20 = 50℅ blinds increase

15/30 = 50℅ blinds increase
25/50 = 67℅ blinds increase
35/75 = 47% blinds increase - Color-up 5's

50/100 = 37% blinds increase
75/150 = 50℅ blinds increase
100/200 = 33% blinds increase

150/300 = 50% blinds increase - Color-up 25's
200/400 = 33% blinds increase
300/600 = 50% blinds increase

400/800 = 33℅ blinds increase
600/1200 = 50% blinds increase
800/1600 = 33% blinds increase

1000/2000 = 25℅ blinds increase - Color-up 100's
1500/3000 = 50% blinds increase
2000/4000 = 33% blinds increase

In red, the transitions I don't like too much (too big or too small blinds increase).

 

[Psypher1000]

In fact I had both 5/10 and 5/15. Why would you cut first level ?

Because having both is unnecessary - that's too much time at the lowest blinds. I think 5/15 is the better way to go because it avoids the arbitrary doubling of the blinds when going to the next level.

Going from 40/80 to 50/100 I was not considering because it only creates a 20% increase, which is not enough I think.

That makes sense, and I agree that 20% is a relatively small increase. I'm approaching it from a chip efficiency perspective, though - I'm trying to get the 5's off the table as soon as possible and keep blind stacks smaller and simpler. As both a player and a dealer, I'd rather players post their blinds with 1 or 2 greens rather than a green & three reds, or two greens & two reds, or...well, you get the point.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

I was wrong saying from 40/80 --> 50/100 represents a 20% increase. It's in fact 25% increase...

So I thouht further and ended with the following structure :

5/10
5/15 : blinds increase 33%
10/20 : blinds increase 50%
15/30 : blinds increase 50%
20/40 : blinds increase 33%
30/60 : blinds increase 50%
--- Color-Up 5's ---
50/100 : blinds increase 67%
75/150 : blinds increase 50%
--- Color-Up 25's ---
100/200 : blinds increase 33%
150/300 : blinds increase 50%
200/400 : blinds increase 33%
300/600 : blinds increase 50%
400/800 : blinds increase 33%
600/1200 : blinds increase 50%
800/1600 : blinds increase 33%
--- color-up 100's ---
1000/2000 : blinds increase : 25%
1500/3000 : blinds increase : 50%
2000/4000 : blinds increase : 33%

Or (my preference) :

5/10
5/15 : blinds increase 33%
10/20 : blinds increase 50%
15/30 : blinds increase 50%
20/40 : blinds increase 33%
30/60 : blinds increase 50%
40/80 : blinds increase 33%
--- Color-Up 5's ---
50/100 : blinds increase 25%
75/150 : blinds increase 50%
100/200 : blinds increase 33%
150/300 : blinds increase 50%
--- Color-Up 25's ---
200/400 : blinds increase 33%
300/600 : blinds increase 50%
400/800 : blinds increase 33%
600/1200 : blinds increase 50%
800/1600 : blinds increase 33%
--- color-up 100's ---
1000/2000 : blinds increase : 25%
1500/3000 : blinds increase : 50%
2000/4000 : blinds increase : 33%

I really want to keep the first level because even if not obvious from level 1 to level 2 we have a 33% increase (so according to me significant) and it makes the tourney more deep.

67% is for my tourney a too big increase.
So I think I've my strucrure !

Thanks a lot for all the valuable feed-back.

 

[BGinGA]

(my preference) :

5/10
5/15 : blinds increase 33%
10/20 : blinds increase 50%
15/30 : blinds increase 50%
20/40 : blinds increase 33%
30/60 : blinds increase 50%
40/80 : blinds increase 33%
--- Color-Up 5's ---
50/100 : blinds increase 25%
75/150 : blinds increase 50%
100/200 : blinds increase 33%
150/300 : blinds increase 50%
--- Color-Up 25's ---
200/400 : blinds increase 33%
300/600 : blinds increase 50%
400/800 : blinds increase 33%
600/1200 : blinds increase 50%
800/1600 : blinds increase 33%
--- color-up 100's ---
1000/2000 : blinds increase : 25%
1500/3000 : blinds increase : 50%
2000/4000 : blinds increase : 33%

That's exactly how I"d do it if using T1000 stacks (100BB), which typically works out to 4 hours max (plus breaks) for 10 players.

Alternately, you could just start with T2000 chips at L3 (10/20), which is also 100BB and will run the exact same duration. That would be my preference, because the T5 chips will be in play for 29% less time. Generally speaking, it is more difficult (and takes longer) for players to bet using multiples of T5 vs T25 or T100.

Going forward, to run a deeper tournament, just add back the missing L1/L2 levels (vs increasing the stacks from T1000 to T1500 or T2000).

 

[Mental Nomad]

[edited]

 

[iballman]

Yep, this is the format my games run and we run 3K, 4K and 5K starting stacks. Attached is the same thing you have with time estimates.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

I'm not fan of the first level doubling and the transition between 30-60 and 50-100 (which is 1,67 and not 2).

But I can understand it'll help you to get rid off the 5's earlier.

The colors represent where the tourney usually ends depending on the starting stack ?

Edit : just realized it shows when to color-up...

 

[BGinGA]

Those chart colors represent first level after color-up.

 

[upNdown]

I'm not fan of the first level doubling and the transition between 30-60 and 50-100 (which is 1,67 and not 2).

But I can understand it'll help you to get rid off the 5's earlier.

The colors represent where the tourney usually ends depending on the starting stack ?

Edit : just realized it shows when to color-up...

Not sure there's much of a reason to jump from 30/60 to 50/100, because if you're doing 20 minute levels and hourly breaks, chances are you're not going to stop after level 5 to color up, anyway, right?

 

[iballman]

Well going from 20/40 to eventually 50/100, there had to be something. 40/80, I guess is an option if you want to add a level. 35/70 would be odd.

Sorry about the typo, did the math based on 25/50 and later decided on 30/60.

When it comes to breaks, people just get up and go and usually don't miss much... Or we all decide it's time for a break and stop the clock. Usually coloring up takes enough of a delay to give people enough time to do what they have to do and at that point of the night it works out with a longer session early and more breaks as we play with less people.

Yes, we stop and color up to green after level 5.

 

[iballman]

One other variation that some liked (and the 'cheap' players did not) is adjusting the level timing.

L1-2, 30 mins
L3-5, 25 mins
L6-8, 20 mins
L9-11, 15 mins
L12+, 10 mins

It definitely forces the action. Also, it helps if one guy who busted deals. But consider we usually run with about 15 players.

 

[BGinGA]

Reducing the blind level times in the latter stages of a tournament makes a great deal of sense, as it can be manipulated to create roughly the same number of hands played per hour as the table size decreases. Linearly decreasing the times by 5-minute increments (and disregarding the number of remaining players) does not suffice for those purposes, however.

 

[iballman]

Agreed on a dynamic sense. But with my relatively consistent game, allowing people to know what is impending as far as levels, it reduces the number of complaints and whining.

 

[BGinGA]

Agreed on a dynamic sense. But with my relatively consistent game, allowing people to know what is impending as far as levels, it reduces the number of complaints and whining.

That's easy -- once at the final table, just tell them that the blind levels get sliced two minutes for every player lost until 5-handed, then three minutes per elimination.

If the final table starts with 10 players at 30 minutes, then heads-up will be 11 minute blinds: 30 - 10 (five busts) = 20 - 9 (three busts) = 11. As players are eliminated, slice the minutes off the current blind level in use. Start the next level with whatever time the last one lasted.