Tourney Starting stack breakdown (2 Viewers)

[mummel]

How do I save this thread? I know when my chips arrive next month I'm going to search for this thread! The alerts list is only 2 pages. The watched threads list only shows threads where I wasnt the last poster.

Any way to save specific thread answers to a favorites bucket (like post #21).

Thanks.

 

[BGinGA]

bookmark it in your browser

or mail this link to yourself
http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/starting-stack-breakdown.12055/#post-190399

 

[mummel]

L7 200 400
L8 300 600
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200
L11 800 1600
L12 1200 2400
~remove T100 chips
L13 1500 3000
L14 2000 4000
L15 3000 6000
L16 4000 8000
L17 5000 10000
L18 7500 15000

BG - I'm looking at your breakdown, and I see the $500 chip wont be in play at the start of level 14.

Does it make sense to change the level 13 small blind to something like 2000/3000 so that I can color up the $100 & $500 chips at the same time at the end of level 12?

 

[justsomedude]

Nice table thanks. Looking at your data, it appears I will need 15 rounds to end the game if you adjust for BGinGA's L1 > L2 blind change (50 to 75 vs 50 to 100)

And if you say 25mins is a decent level time, then I need 6 hours 15 mins of back to back game play (without breaks) to end the tournament. Thats impossible for a week night.

So some adjustments are needed. 20min levels allow for a 5 hour tourney with no breaks. We're getting closer. If I then need to adjust for bigger blind jumps, where were you tag them on? End game?

FWIW... I've never had a tourney run the "projected" length. There are a bunch of reasons for this:

• Players opt to skip the breaks as the night wears on.
• When it gets down to 3-4 players on the final table they may opt to "jump" to the next blind level before completing all 25 minutes ("ef this, jump to 1,000/2,000!")
• If it's getting late, the final 2-3 players often decide to chop the payouts. This point is critical... as I've rarely had a tourney go the full duration to one winner. I think I can count on one hand the times that's happened in the last year. The final players always chop so they can go home.

So, shorten the breaks, keep the levels to 20 minutes, and you'll be done sooner than you think. I'm willing to bet on it.

For a single table, my guess is you'll finish at the 2,000/4,000 level, if not before.

 

[BGinGA]

BG - I'm looking at your breakdown, and I see the $500 chip wont be in play at the start of level 14.

Does it make sense to change the level 13 small blind to something like 2000/3000 so that I can color up the $100 & $500 chips at the same time at the end of level 12?

The T500 chips are used during L18, although your single-table event probably won't last past L15.

Leave the T500s on the table; you can always exchange a barrel for 10 x T1000 chips (or two T5000s) during play if needed.

 

[mummel]

The T500 chips are used during L18, although your single-table event probably won't last past L15.

Leave the T500s on the table; you can always exchange a barrel for 10 x T1000 chips (or two T5000s) during play if needed.

I was going to ask about the formalities of coloring up, if it's acceptable during gameplay etc. How do you do a card race if the game is in motion etc.

I also worry about mistakes being made if the chip stash is exposed on the table and chips are flying around. Seems safer if the game stops, chips are colored, and then the chip racks are stored away.

What do you guys do?

 

[mummel]

FWIW... I've never had a tourney run the "projected" length. There are a bunch of reasons for this:

• Players opt to skip the breaks as the night wears on.
• When it gets down to 3-4 players on the final table they may opt to "jump" to the next blind level before completing all 25 minutes ("ef this, jump to 1,000/2,000!")
• If it's getting late, the final 2-3 players often decide to chop the payouts. This point is critical... as I've rarely had a tourney go the full duration to one winner. I think I can count on one hand the times that's happened in the last year. The final players always chop so they can go home.

So, shorten the breaks, keep the levels to 20 minutes, and you'll be done sooner than you think. I'm willing to bet on it.

View attachment 40204

For a single table, my guess is you'll finish at the 2,000/4,000 level, if not before.

Good info TY. I wonder if I should setup accelerated blinds (i.e. 10min levels towards the end by default)??

Also, the last 3 players splitting the pot (blind valet splits it up 3 ways) seems like a good idea too, although #3 would just start a shove fest seeing as though they are already placed 3rd no matter what. Not sure how to handle that.

Perhaps I should run the tourneys on weekends for the first few until I get the hang of it.

 

[justsomedude]

Good info TY. I wonder if I should setup accelerated blinds (i.e. 10min levels towards the end by default)??

Also, the last 3 players splitting the pot (blind valet splits it up 3 ways) seems like a good idea too, although #3 would just start a shove fest seeing as though they are already placed 3rd no matter what. Not sure how to handle that.

Perhaps I should run the tourneys on weekends for the first few until I get the hang of it.

I would not recommend accelerated blinds as your default structure. Some players think the higher levels actually require more time and focus, and thus should not be short changed. However, if the players all agree to cut a level short, by all means do it (unless it goes against your house rules).

On chopping: Chopping should be the sole discretion of those playing... If all agree, it's their decision. If even one player is opposed, the deal is void and everyone plays on. As host, you shouldn't be making that determination, only whether or not you will allow it (chopping).

Definitely agree that you should go with a weekend or Friday night first. Hosting is heavy duty, syressful, and has a lot of responsibility and moving parts. It took me a good 3-4 games to get everything "dialed in" the way I wanted it.

Best of luck and I hope this helps!!

 

[BGinGA]

I wonder if I should setup accelerated blinds (i.e. 10min levels towards the end by default)?

Nothing wrong with the later blind levels of a tournament having shorter times. When viewed in the context of "number of hands played at each blind level", it makes a great deal of sense. As the table size gets smaller, more hands per hour can be played -- and reducing the level times in later rounds can help keep things on an even keel over the duration of the tournament.

 

[mummel]

Cool thanks. And about coloring up Level 13 to 2000/3000 vs 1500/3000. Is that a big no-no?

 

[mummel]

How do you guys color up the $100s if you have 9 players and they start off with 12 chips each (i.e. 108 chips total = $10,800).

There is always $200 missing here with only $500, $1000 and $5000 chips left to work with.

 

[bentax1978]

How do you guys color up the $100s if you have 9 players and they start off with 12 chips each (i.e. 108 chips total = $10,800).

There is always $200 missing here with only $500, $1000 and $5000 chips left to work with.

The 9 x 12 x $25 chips have already been colored up into $2700 worth of higher denom chips. If they were all $100 chips, that would make $13,500 total in $100 chips. Even if they weren't all changed into $100 chips.

It doesn't really matter anyway, you can just round up to make it easier. By the time you're removing $100 chips from the table, it really won't matter much if someone ends up with an extra $400 in chips.

 

[mummel]

The 9 x 12 x $25 chips have already been colored up into $2700 worth of higher denom chips. If they were all $100 chips, that would make $13,500 total in $100 chips. Even if they weren't all changed into $100 chips.

It doesn't really matter anyway, you can just round up to make it easier. By the time you're removing $100 chips from the table, it really won't matter much if someone ends up with an extra $400 in chips.

I thought the $25s get colored up into $1000s? (i.e. take 9X12X$25 off the table, and pull another 3X$100 off the table to get to $3000)?

 

[bentax1978]

I thought the $25s get colored up into $1000s? (i.e. take 9X12X$25 off the table, and pull another 3X$100 off the table to get to $3000)?

You could do that too. It would depend how many (extra) chips of each denomination you have.

But let's assume you did that, you would then have $10,500 in $100 chips to color ups (108 less the 3 you already took off).

You're still going to need to deal with rounding up and/or racing off the change as most players won't have an exact increment of $500.

 

[mummel]

You could do that too. It would depend how many (extra) chips of each denomination you have.

But let's assume you did that, you would then have $10,500 in $100 chips to color ups (108 less the 3 you already took off).

You're still going to need to deal with rounding up and/or racing off the change as most players won't have an exact increment of $500.

Ah FFS of course. I've already removed 3X$100 during the $25 color up............

 

[mummel]

I'd have T5000 chips ready. 2 X 5000

Yeah I calculated (assuming 10 rebuys), I would need an extra 50 X $1000 chips (so a total tourney set of 450 chips), vs if I just use the $5000 for color ups and rebuys, and only do 9 rebuys, I would only need a 400 chip set (so a 50 chip diffs if you use the $1000 for rebuys).

MOAR is MOAR. But maybe I should only use the $5000 chips and get more $1 for my cash set?

 

[mummel]

Also worth noting that your experiment yielded a 9-9-4-14 stack ratio. That is one of the reasons I use 12/12/5/6 for starting stacks, and not 12/12/3/7 (too few T500s) or 8/8/6/6 (too few T25s and T100s). Those latter stacks work okay in larger tournaments with multiple tables, but 12/12/5/6 works better for single- or 2-table events.

With the 12/12/5/6 structure in a T10,000 game, do you ever feel there is pressure on the $1,000s and you keep looking for those chips? Put another way, which chips do you have to seek change for the most with this structure? TY.

 

[mummel]

With the 12/12/5/6 structure in a T10,000 game, do you ever feel there is pressure on the $1,000s and you keep looking for those chips? Put another way, which chips do you have to seek change for the most with this structure? TY.

And trying to answer my own question, if I have 10 players, and do 3 rebuys at 10 X $1k chips, and then say another 3 rebuys at 2 X $5k chips, towards the end game after I color up the $500 chips, I'm left with the following on the table:

95 X $1,000
13 X $5,000

Which is a total of 108 chips, pretty close to your optimal 120 number for the end game. This seems about right.

 

[BGinGA]

And trying to answer my own question, if I have 10 players, and do 3 rebuys at 10 X $1k chips, and then say another 3 rebuys at 2 X $5k chips, towards the end game after I color up the $500 chips, I'm left with the following on the table:

95 X $1,000
13 X $5,000

Which is a total of 108 chips, pretty close to your optimal 120 number for the end game. This seems about right.

Did you also include the extra T1000s added from coloring-up the T25 and T100 chips?

 

[mummel]

Did you also include the extra T1000s added from coloring-up the T25 and T100 chips?

I did, the $1,000s breakdown as follows:

-10 players X 6 chips in starting stack = 60
-3 X $1k chips used to color up the T25 (12 chips X 10 players starting stack = 120 chips X $25 = $3k / $1000 = 3)
-2 X $1k chips used to color up T100 (12 chips X 10 players starting stack = 120 chips X $100 = $12k = 2 X $5k chips + 2 X $1k chips)
-3 X $10k for rebuys (30 X $1k chips)

Total = 95 X $1k chips.

 

[mummel]

With the 12/12/5/6 structure in a T10,000 game, do you ever feel there is pressure on the $1,000s and you keep looking for those chips? Put another way, which chips do you have to seek change for the most with this structure? TY.

I was curious about what you thought about these T1000 chips. Is there pressure to make change at some point during the game?