Tourney Starting a new League

SixSpeedFury

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After some extensive research regarding starting a league, I I pretty much have every down except for the following:

Membership Fees
For those who run leagues, do you incorporate membership fees? Let's say to cover for trophies, equipment, name tags, etc.?

Formulas
This one varies, as there is no one "best" formula, but which one is the most simplistic, in terms of awarding cashes, places finished, knockouts, etc.? Do you penalize multiple buy-ins? From what I've read, I know points for just participating is a divisive topic, so I want to try to avoid that.

Places paid
What is a good way to award payouts to spots placed, and how -/+ would I scale, let's say for 30 players? I've only known the standard (1-9 players: 60/40, 10-20: 50/30/20, etc.)

Tournament of champions
This one is another hot debate from what I've read up on. What percentage of the buy-ins from the games do you pool towards the prize pool of the final game? Do you allow players that want to participate to buy-in, despite not placing in the top field of players?

Anything else that comes to mind or that you guys would like to contribute would be much appreciated!
 

DaneWoj

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1. No membership fee. We do take $3/person for the host as he provides a dinner for ppl and also puts out a tip jar for those you want to give more. Ppl who cash in the tournament often throw in a $10-$20 spot for him.

2. We’ve changed our formula thru the years. We award winning more than we do just cashing.

3. We pay top 33%. We do this to keep ppl from getting in too deep with the league and lose interest.

4. We take 25% for our WSOP Seats. This season we will award abt 15-17 total seats ranging from $1000 double stack event to $800 Deepstack NLHE.

My one tip is commit to a schedule and realize you won’t ever please anyone. Our league has been running for 7 years now and we average abt 25 ppl every other week for 15 times a season.
 

trigs

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I think I'm in the minority but I suggest allowing everyone to make the final tournament of champions. Just have starting stacks dependent on finishing placements or perhaps tournament winners get free entry and everyone else pays an entry fee.

Nothing worse than playing multiple tournaments over months paying into a final game that you're not allowed to play in.
 

SixSpeedFury

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I think I'm in the minority but I suggest allowing everyone to make the final tournament of champions. Just have starting stacks dependent on finishing placements or perhaps tournament winners get free entry and everyone else pays an entry fee.

Nothing worse than playing multiple tournaments over months paying into a final game that you're not allowed to play in.

That is what might cause a discord with the players. What if the ones who pay a fee to buy into the final tournament wins it? The ones who were there from day one would be pretty pissed.
 

trigs

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That is what might cause a discord with the players. What if the ones who pay a fee to buy into the final tournament wins it? The ones who were there from day one would be pretty pissed.
Well, they did get in for free and/or started with more chips.
 

SixSpeedFury

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So the general consensus for the ToC is to allow them to buy-in if they want to and stack those who have points throughout the season with more chips? @BGinGA, @CraigT78, @ChaosRock, etc., what are your takes on the thread?
 

Eloe2000

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We just run a single table 9 player league but I think we are looking at opening up the second table.

Membership Fees
No fees. Concerned about legalities and just host out of goodwill. People will all pitch in on BBQ/Grilling nights etc. though.

Formulas
We had some arbitrary formulas we had agreed upon and then changed but now use the "crunchy" point system I found here on PCF: http://ceemeck.org/BARGETrivia/crunchy-points-and-the-best-all-around-player-baap.html#formula

Places paid
1 buy-in goes into the season pot. 3rd gets initial buy-in back, 2nd gets 2x buy-in, winner gets all remainder including all rebuys. Chops allowed at finalists discretion.

Tournament of champions
We do several "seasons" per year and send the winner to a local WSOP/WPT circuit event. I played yesterday and am still reeling at my loss after someone's donk call and revering me after playing well initially :(
 

ChaosRock

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So the general consensus for the ToC is to allow them to buy-in if they want to and stack those who have points throughout the season with more chips? @BGinGA, @CraigT78, @ChaosRock, etc., what are your takes on the thread?

Here's my perspective on some of the issues you raise man. I'll try to be succinct but I definitely suck ai it:

Membership Fees
I don't charge any membership fees. I feel the more you charge upfront, the less people one will be able to recruit.

Formulas
As you said, it's a complicated and controversial topic, as seems to be the case with everything here nowadays, LOL! I found a pretty good formula myself that has been working for years and have zero complains. I love it and have no desire/reason to change it.

Places paid
I do pretty much what you described: less than 8 players (70/30), less than 18 players (50/30/20).

Tournament of champions
My initial tourney entries are $40, going $30 for the payouts and $10 as league fees for year-end prizes. Re-buys unlimited and $30 as the player already paid for the league fees. After the 20 regular season tourneys, I divide the prize pool in two, half goes for the regular season cumulative performance (40/30/20/10) and half paid to the free roll TOC top three finishes (50/30/20), for which only the top 8 regular season point performers are invited. Stacks for the TOC are equal since season performance was already rewarded. That creates battles until the last tourney of the season, either to getting to the top 4 paying positions or to get a seat at the TOC.
 

CraigT78

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After some extensive research regarding starting a league, I I pretty much have every down except for the following:

Membership Fees
For those who run leagues, do you incorporate membership fees? Let's say to cover for trophies, equipment, name tags, etc.?

Formulas
This one varies, as there is no one "best" formula, but which one is the most simplistic, in terms of awarding cashes, places finished, knockouts, etc.? Do you penalize multiple buy-ins? From what I've read, I know points for just participating is a divisive topic, so I want to try to avoid that.

SQRT (a * b * (b / c)) / (d + 1.0))
i. a = Number of Players​
ii. b = Buy-in Amount​
iii. c = Total Expense (Buy-in + Re-buys + Add-on)​
iv. d = Player Finish Position​

Places paid
What is a good way to award payouts to spots placed, and how -/+ would I scale, let's say for 30 players? I've only known the standard (1-9 players: 60/40, 10-20: 50/30/20, etc.)

Tournament of champions
This one is another hot debate from what I've read up on. What percentage of the buy-ins from the games do you pool towards the prize pool of the final game? Do you allow players that want to participate to buy-in, despite not placing in the top field of players?

Anything else that comes to mind or that you guys would like to contribute would be much appreciated!

Membership Fees

I rake $25 from every tournament to hold back for trophys, ToC gift (custom pint glasses), and the winner coin
I also rake $150 per game - $100 to the ToC freeroll and $50 for the Player of the Year award

Formula
I use the long standing Dr Neru (sp?) as it works, it's easy for TD to spit the points out, and everyone knows it now. It does penalize multiple buy-ins, addon, and also scales up for larger tournaments.

Places paid
I pay 2 places per full table for the tournament.

Tournament of Champions
I take the top 10 and it's a free roll. I host a 'losers cash table' adjacent to the main table, so we can rail and also so there is a game going for those who bust out. I have that starting stack at x100 of the final points, plus bonus chips for KOs and attendance.
 

CraigT78

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Here's my formula

SQRT (a * b * (b / c)) / (d + 1.0))
i. a = Number of Players​
ii. b = Buy-in Amount​
iii. c = Total Expense (Buy-in + Re-buys + Add-on)​
iv. d = Player Finish Position​
 

bsdunbar1

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Here is how we do what we do

Membership Fees
$0

Formula
Dr Neau's (Same as Craig's). I like that it figures in field size, penalizes for rebuys/add-ons etc

Places paid
I have a min of 2 tables weekly so 4 places are paid (42%/27%/18%/15%)

Weekly Fees/Payouts/Rakes
We play ~15 week seasons and use your top 12 scores
Our game is open to anyone who wants to play any given week. We usually have 16-18 regulars and 2-3 stragglers each week
$25 Buy-in. I rake $5 from every entry to go to the season end freeroll.
Rebuys are $25 with the same $5 rake.
Add-ons are $10 and the entire $10 gets raked.
So $20 from every entry and every rebuy gets paid weekly.

Tournament of Champions
The top 7 automatically qualify for the freeroll
8-15 qualify for a play-in game, which the winner of the play-in gets to join the big kids table for the freeroll

10% of the raked $$ gets paid to the season points winner
Freeroll payouts are 42%/27%/18%/15% of the raked $$

Chip stacks are 100% based on performance for all 15 positions. If you win the play-in game, you bring your season earned chip stack to the freeroll.
1200 chips per win, 400 chips per point, 100 chips per kill

Misc
I have a shared Google Drive directory where every stat and every $$ is tracked and shared with every player. They can access the data any time they like.
I display a tv with a powerpoint of all the stats/data /$$ for everyone to view each week.

Here is what our main stat sheet looks like 4 weeks in to our current season
Capture.JPG

And for you non Tournament Director users out there - TD takes care of & keeps track of it all!
 

timinater

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Membership Fees
Nope - Even if I wanted to, this crosses the line into an illegal game where I live.

Formula
We use a custom formula that is based off of Dr. Neau's. Details are in this post. I'd think about the behaviors you want to incentive, and tweak your point formula to reward that. Whether it's consistent attendance, winning, KO's etc. you can adjust the formula to reward it.

Places Paid
  • <=10 : 1st = 50%, 2nd = 30%, 3rd = 20%
  • 11-20: 1st = 50%, 2nd = 25%, 3rd = 15%, 4th = 10%
Tournament of Champions
We take 20% of a buy-in typically to put towards the "Final Table" as we call it. Only criteria for entry is to play a minimum of 3 of 8 preliminary games. We will adjust for next season to allow event winners an invitation to the Final Table as well.

I have all of the rules, structures etc. that my league uses posted here.
 

BGinGA

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@BGinGA, @CraigT78, @ChaosRock, etc., what are your takes on the thread?
You should also tag @Mr Tree, who runs a very successful 30-player league.

In my case, our group is kicking off the 17th season of the local 'primary' league this coming Sunday (there are several), but I've also organized many other poker leagues since 2005 that used various structures besides the one described below. I've also included the structure used for the PCF Quarterly League that is currently in progress on Pokerstars using the Home Games feature.

Membership Fees

There are three basic ways to handle membership fees:
  • no membership fees, usually combined with a per-event rake
  • small up-front membership fee (typically $20 or less), usually combined with a higher per-event rake
  • large membership fee (typically $100 or more), usually combined with a smaller or no per-event rake
We charge a small $10 per season league fee to cover incidental expenses such as cards and trophies. Any leftover monies are added to the Championship fund. The number of players in the league is not restricted, but each of the nine events is limited to 16 players (first-come, first-seated). Pre-registration is not required, but highly recommended.

The PCF Quarterly League has a $20 up-front league fee.

Formulas

I use a table-based system for points that awards performance over attendance, and awarded points vary based on field size. It is loosely based on a 60%-30%-10% distribution when paying three places, and points are only awarded to the top 33% of the field. Cash payouts are awarded to the top 25% of the field. We do track attendance, knockouts, and re-buys, but those statistics (along with earned points) are only used to calculate the starting stack sizes in the Championship tournament.

Some leagues I've ran use a modified version where all players receive points, but meaningful points are only awarded to the top 50% of the field. Along similar lines, the current PCF Quarterly League points are awarded based on field size and finishing order, using this formula: (6*SQRT(F/P)-8.5)+1, where F = field size and P =player rank for a given event, and results rounded up to one decimal point. Those points are awarded to the top half of the field (F/2-1), with the bottom half of the field is always awarded 0.5 point regardless of finish. It works well for events where attendance ranges from one to three tables.

Places paid

Our league pays the top 25% of the field (rounded up), so for our two-table events it works out as follows:
  • 6-8 players = pays 2 places (70-30)
  • 9-12 entries = pays 3 places (60-30-10)
  • 13-16 entries = pays 4 places (50-30-15-5)
For larger leagues, I typically pay out the top 15-20% of the field (up to five tables or 50 players), using a 3-6-10-15-21-28-36-45-55 sequence for five tables or fewer.

For 30 players, I award payouts to 6 players (20% of field), using a (3-6-10-15-21-28)/83 sequence, rounded to the nearest $5 amount. Each payout increase is larger than the previous jump.
  • 1= 33.7%
  • 2= 25.3%
  • 3= 18.1%
  • 4= 12.0%
  • 5= 7.2%
  • 6= 3.6%
Payouts for the PCF online tournaments use the following schedule:
  • 5 or fewer players: winner-take-all
  • 6-11 players: pays 2, 70%-30%
  • 12-17 players: pays 3, 55%-30%-15%
  • 18+ players: pays 4, 50%-30%-15%-5%
Tournament of champions

Our league rakes $5 per $50 entry/re-buy (10%) from each event for the Championship fund The top eight in season points earn a seat at the Championship event, with starting stack sizes based on total points, event wins, collected bounties, and attended events, less deductions for re-buys. There is no entry fee for the Championship event, although qualifiers with fewer than 50% season participation are charged $10 per 'missing' event, which is added to the Championship prize pool. We tried for several years to have one additional player qualify via a Last Chance tournament, but the interest was never really there.

The PCF Quarterly League collects a $5 event fee (separate $15 entry, so 25%) for each tournament played, which combined with the $20 league fee goes towards the Quarterly Points payouts (70% to Top 3) and the year-end Tournament of Champions (30% to Top 3). The top two finishers from each Quarterly League points standings earn seats at the ToC, along with the winner of the Last Chance tournament (open to all league participants). Both the LC and ToC are equal stack events.

Neither format above allows entry into the final game without having earned a seat based on season-long performance.
 

andy699669

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You should also tag @Mr Tree, who runs a very successful 30-player league.

In my case, our group is kicking off the 17th season of the local 'primary' league this coming Sunday (there are several), but I've also organized many other poker leagues since 2005 that used various structures besides the one described below. I've also included the structure used for the PCF Quarterly League that is currently in progress on Pokerstars using the Home Games feature.

Membership Fees

There are three basic ways to handle membership fees:
  • no membership fees, usually combined with a per-event rake
  • small up-front membership fee (typically $20 or less), usually combined with a higher per-event rake
  • large membership fee (typically $100 or more), usually combined with a smaller or no per-event rake
We charge a small $10 per season league fee to cover incidental expenses such as cards and trophies. Any leftover monies are added to the Championship fund. The number of players in the league is not restricted, but each of the nine events is limited to 16 players (first-come, first-seated). Pre-registration is not required, but highly recommended.

The PCF Quarterly League has a $20 up-front league fee.

Formulas

I use a table-based system for points that awards performance over attendance, and awarded points vary based on field size. It is loosely based on a 60%-30%-10% distribution when paying three places, and points are only awarded to the top 33% of the field. Cash payouts are awarded to the top 25% of the field. We do track attendance, knockouts, and re-buys, but those statistics (along with earned points) are only used to calculate the starting stack sizes in the Championship tournament.

Some leagues I've ran use a modified version where all players receive points, but meaningful points are only awarded to the top 50% of the field. Along similar lines, the current PCF Quarterly League points are awarded based on field size and finishing order, using this formula: (6*SQRT(F/P)-8.5)+1, where F = field size and P =player rank for a given event, and results rounded up to one decimal point. Those points are awarded to the top half of the field (F/2-1), with the bottom half of the field is always awarded 0.5 point regardless of finish. It works well for events where attendance ranges from one to three tables.

Places paid

Our league pays the top 25% of the field (rounded up), so for our two-table events it works out as follows:
  • 6-8 players = pays 2 places (70-30)
  • 9-12 entries = pays 3 places (60-30-10)
  • 13-16 entries = pays 4 places (50-30-15-5)
For larger leagues, I typically pay out the top 15-20% of the field (up to five tables or 50 players), using a 3-6-10-15-21-28-36-45-55 sequence for five tables or fewer.

For 30 players, I award payouts to 6 players (20% of field), using a (3-6-10-15-21-28)/83 sequence, rounded to the nearest $5 amount. Each payout increase is larger than the previous jump.
  • 1= 33.7%
  • 2= 25.3%
  • 3= 18.1%
  • 4= 12.0%
  • 5= 7.2%
  • 6= 3.6%
Payouts for the PCF online tournaments use the following schedule:
  • 5 or fewer players: winner-take-all
  • 6-11 players: pays 2, 70%-30%
  • 12-17 players: pays 3, 55%-30%-15%
  • 18+ players: pays 4, 50%-30%-15%-5%
Tournament of champions

Our league rakes $5 per $50 entry/re-buy (10%) from each event for the Championship fund The top eight in season points earn a seat at the Championship event, with starting stack sizes based on total points, event wins, collected bounties, and attended events, less deductions for re-buys. There is no entry fee for the Championship event, although qualifiers with fewer than 50% season participation are charged $10 per 'missing' event, which is added to the Championship prize pool. We tried for several years to have one additional player qualify via a Last Chance tournament, but the interest was never really there.

The PCF Quarterly League collects a $5 event fee (separate $15 entry, so 25%) for each tournament played, which combined with the $20 league fee goes towards the Quarterly Points payouts (70% to Top 3) and the year-end Tournament of Champions (30% to Top 3). The top two finishers from each Quarterly League points standings earn seats at the ToC, along with the winner of the Last Chance tournament (open to all league participants). Both the LC and ToC are equal stack events.

Neither format above allows entry into the final game without having earned a seat based on season-long performance.

score formula.PNG

So, is this the scoring formula? I try to make it more understandable.
 

WhiteMamba1646

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Havana Poker League

Membership Fees
$225 for new member's and $215 for old members.
$25 for new members goes to trophies at the end of the year and a personalized chip
$15 for old members goes to trophies at the end of the year
$200 goes to the prize pool at the end of the year.

Formulas

Event's 1-11
1st place - 40 points
2nd place - 35 points
3rd place - 30 points
4th place - 26 points
5th place - 23 points
6th place - 20 points
7th place - 18 points
8th place - 16 points
9th place - 14 points
10th place - 12 points
11th place - 10 points
12th place - 9 points
13th place - 8 points
14th place - 7 points
15th place - 6 points
16th place - 5 points
17th place - 4 points
18th place - 3 points
19th place - 2 points
20th place - 1 point

Event 12 - add 5 points to each position for the final tournament.

Places paid
payouts per event vary on attendance.
10 players - 3 payouts 50/30/20
11-15 players - 4 payouts 45/27/18/10
16-20 players - 5 payouts 42/25/15/10/8

each tournament has an additional buyin besides the $200 so that people play every event for cash as well. anywhere from $20 up to $60 for each event. final event is a $100 Bounty tournament.

the $200 goes to the final scores and will pay out top 5 members based on points. Top 10 of the 12 Event's will be added to final score.

1st - 1700
2nd - 1000
3rd - 600
4th - 400
5th - 300


i have 1 tournament every month. 6 tournaments are rebuy tournaments, 3 are bounty tournaments, and 3 are freeze-out tournaments.
10 are NLHE tournaments, 1 is a PLO tournament, and 1 is a Shortdeck tournament.


Tournament of champions

I dont run a tournament of champions but that's because i don't know enough about this part yet and may add it to next year's league.
 

Mr Tree

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Seriously just saw this but am working atm. I’ll type something halfway thoughtful up later when I get a minute.
 
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