Snow Day online LIMIT 1/2 PAHWM

grebe

Flush
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
1,615
Location
Richmond, VA
Day off work AND the 6 max 1/2 limit game is running! BANG BANG!

-V1 is pretty aggressive and has been running well. His raise range is wide.
-V2 is a typical calling station and has been hemorrhaging money. His stack is the only 1 that matters, he has $10
-Table is playing typically....a TAG and then a bunch of limpers not much re-raising. I am a TAG but have been missing flops, so I am getting called light.

Dealer (V1): Raise $2
SB (V2) calls $2
BB (Hero): calls $2 with :2c::5d:
*I think a call or a fold is completely justified here. I call hoping for a low flop and catch V1 betting high cards all the way. V2 I consider collateral damage. His chips will be dispersed throughout the table eventually.

FLOP
:2s::kd::5c: bink! 2 pair.
V1: check
HERO: check
V2: bet $1
V1: call $1
Hero: ???
 
Last edited:

upNdown

Royal Flush
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
12,343
Reaction score
15,625
Location
boston
Not a limit expert.
I guess I’d flat here, hoping to check raise the turn, assuming the board doesn’t get scary.
But I’m eager to see what LHE smarties have to say.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,921
Reaction score
9,118
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
Strange looking betting structure. If the blinds are $1 / $2, then the bets are $2 preflop and on the flop, $4 on the turn and river. I can't figure how we see $2 bets preflop followed by $1 bets on the flop.

Limit poker punishes variance from preflop hand selection charts. Hero can not profitably play 52o from the button or the big blind. No doubt the fun is worth a quarter worth of lost EV. The implied odds found in no limit poker are much less valuable in limit. Even spiking bottom two pair is no sure winner, though Hero is way ahead of everyone's range at the moment.

Almost no trapping in limit poker. < checking to an aggressive planning to check raise is viable > Bet/raise your good hands. No one is folding for an extra dollar. Hero should raise. Calling a reraise.

Betting the turn unless the king pairs.

There are some fancy plays possible. But let's not go there. Smash mouth poker pays fine in limit poker. -=- DrStrange
 

Legend5555

Full House
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
2,772
Reaction score
3,700
Location
Georgia
Check raise. Then keep betting unless board counterfeits you or gets really ugly, slow down if you get raised back. Most people in limit don't raise turn or river with better than 1 pair/bottom 2. Though that's obviously opponent dependent.

Basically, a very general rule of thumb in limit is to just bet and raise your good hands and keep doing so until board gets terrible or you get raised back. Basically almost never slowplay anything.
 

grebe

Flush
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
1,615
Location
Richmond, VA
@DrStrange In limit, you call the game by small and big bets, not blinds. So blinds are actually .50/1, so bets raises pre and post flop will be in increments of $1, turn and river are $2.

Hero: Raise
V1: reraise
SB: call
Hero call
Pot is now $15 (-rake), we have bottom 2 and both other hands are showing strength. I am putting V1 on a King now...hoping it is a single pair hand. Sets are possible for sure. V1, who knows? Pretty much any 2 that guys like this want to call with.

Turn: :7h:
V1: BET! (he has less than a big bet left)
Hero: ??? (This should be a blank)
 

Forty4

Full House
Tourney Director
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
4,346
Reaction score
4,324
Location
Rochester, NY
Have to save this thread as it’s not often the Dr is wrong but he is in this case. :)

flop is a call. We don’t have a great hand and if we do want to employ the check raise it’s on the turn but even then we don’t have a great hand with bottom two.
 

Jimulacrum

Flush
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
1,956
Reaction score
2,613
Location
Nah Hampshah
Fold pre.

Bet flop, or if checked, check-raise. Your two pair should usually be good here. Get the money in.

Raise turn to try to defend your (maybe good) two pair. V1 could just be shoveling his last chips in with a lot of hands. If someone behind you 3-bets, that's cause for concern.
 

JustinInMN

Full House
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
3,857
Reaction score
4,323
Location
Burnsville, MN
*I think a call or a fold is completely justified here. I call hoping for a low flop and catch V1 betting high cards all the way. V2 I consider collateral damage. His chips will be dispersed throughout the table eventually.

I disagree, even in a 3 handed game against an obvious blind steal, 52o goes in the muck. I would prefer re-raising to flatting here if you are going to continue.

:2s::kd::5c: bink! 2 pair.
V1: check
HERO: check
V2: bet $1
V1: call $1
Hero: ???
So I am confused, pf you said V2 is the SB and V1 is the button, but V1 acted first. I am going to assume you just mean the SB checked, you checkd, Button bets, SB Call.

I think if you don't donk this flop, you flat trying to check raise the field on the turn unless a king comes off. This is a good flop, but a very vulnerable holding to anyone that has one pair.

I do kind of like donking the flop though because whatever button does is good for you. Flat means he's probably playing from behind, a raise means you are going to shut out the SB, which is one fewer player to outdraw a good but vulnerable holding, and you are really only likely to be behind a set, and there's only one combo of 55 or 22 left.

A king on the board anywhere along the way is going to be brutal, or any running pair for that matter. Your hand is good but not as good as you think, it is pretty easily outdrawn unless neither villain has a pair.
 

JustinInMN

Full House
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
3,857
Reaction score
4,323
Location
Burnsville, MN
Turn: :7h:
V1: BET! (he has less than a big bet left)
Hero: ??? (This should be a blank)
Tough decision here, you got 3 bet on the flop by button after check-raising the field. That could still be just a good king or AA, but it's a very strong line, it could also be Kings up somehow or one of the few sets, even though we are holding blockers. V1 is probably just trying to get the last of his stack in for a triple up. I don't think a raise will move button off of his hand after he 3-bet the flop after hero check-raised the field. It's really feeling like the worst hand Button can have is like KJ or KT maybe. Your hand ranks kind of in the middle of everything button could have. It's tempting just to play defense from here, just check and call. You beat all the one pair hands, but lose to anything above average. There isn't an action you can take to think the field. This hand is going to showdown and we really don't know where we are at. And we might have to fold a bad river, a king, a 7. Any rivers in the Broadway area are bad too, though that's a tough fold.

Too good to fold, not good enough to raise, that's the tough thing about low two pair in this spot.
 

grebe

Flush
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
1,615
Location
Richmond, VA
Let me say I like @JustinInMN thinking here. I agree with the fold pre line, but I will slightly defend my call by stating that he is table captain, and his button is my big blind. 25off is not the best hand to defend with, and definitely should be for a raise, but there are many sub premium hands were are going to have to play in this spot or just get run over by button.

But yes, this is a less dramatic spot by folding pre.

Also, sorry about the mix-up on who's who. Small blind leads out on turn. He had been calling previously.
 

grebe

Flush
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
1,615
Location
Richmond, VA
Turn action:

After SB bets, I try to isolate him by raising. Button re raises and SB calls for the rest of his stack.
Hero goes ahead and caps it hoping that button is fast playing AA or AK. I'm hoping for a low card that doesn't pair the board.

River: :3c:

No backing out now. A bloated pot and pretty much no reasonable draw comes in. We have 2 pair and folding is out. AA and AK are very reasonable hands here for button, maybe even KQ.

So do you bet for thin value, or give up and check/call?
 

JustinInMN

Full House
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
3,857
Reaction score
4,323
Location
Burnsville, MN
I think I favor check call. But thinking about it, I wouldn't fault a bet either. We are going to lose two bets on the river if we are behind and bet andvillain raises. But we will win nothing extra if hero checks behind (but maybe that's unlikely given villain is described as aggressive) and he surely has to call a bet with kx or AA.

If we go for value it feels thin. I think it's close, but I probably check and plan to call.
 

JustinInMN

Full House
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
3,857
Reaction score
4,323
Location
Burnsville, MN
there are many sub premium hands were are going to have to play in this spot or just get run over by button.
I do agree with this, but 52o is about the bottom 3% of hands. You may find you want to call with 60-70% of hands against someone opening button 100% of the time, but the trickhness of this hand illustrates the difficulty, you hit one of the best flops and it's still tough to navigate.
 

grebe

Flush
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
1,615
Location
Richmond, VA
Hero bets.
Villain raises.
Hero sighs and calls.

Button Villain takes it down with K5 for a flopped better 2 pair.

Small blind had A2, which is why I played like I did. These hands keep making it to showdown.

Anyways, loads of lessons in this hand, me thinks. Lots of things to think about, which is why I shared it. Of course, the simple fold pre would make this all go away, and I do agree that's the correct play. We lost the maximum here on this one.
 

JustinInMN

Full House
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
3,857
Reaction score
4,323
Location
Burnsville, MN
Button Villain takes it down with K5 for a flopped better 2 pair

Maybe we underestimated K5 as a possibility and shouldn't have if villian is really aggressive. Yes we partially block it, but 3 betting the flop over a mid position check raise is a really powerful line. There are still six combos of it and six combos of K2 for that matter. One combo of 55, 22, and three of KK, so holistically 17 combos that might take this line that have fives and twos beat. The question becomes how many combos of one pair hands take this line. I would say all six combos of AA, and probably all 12 combos of AK, maybe 12 combos of KQ too. Even if we throw in the 12 combos of KJ that's 42 we beat to 17 we don't.

So we figure to be in the top third of villains' range here anyway, unless we can eliminate the lower hands. Is villian 3- betting everything in the turn that be bet the flop? If we are talking AA and AK only, then fives and twos are closer to the middle. That may have been the sign to slow down.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom