Cash Game Situation from lasts nights PLO game (1 Viewer)

[Rhodeman77]

Playing PLO at the casino yesterday, pretty much all day. This takes places at about 2am.

I am in seat 5 and seat 6 had just went broke the hand before and is pulling chips from his pocket to reload. I see he tosses a $500 chip to a big stack for some smaller chips but I can’t see his whole stack clearly.

Preflop action see 5 of paying $20 to see a flop of Q97, he bets $100 and it folds to me and I raise to $400 with J10108.

He says all-in and I call.

Turn is a K giving me the straight, unfortunately for me the river is also a K and seat 6 tables 77xx.

He then says he has $1000 and I say you can’t, that the most you could have started the hand with is $700 (table max-buy in).

He gets very angry and starts cussing at me.

What do think was ruled?

 

[Hornet]

This seems like a no-brainer if he had just gone broke on the hand before. Table max is $700, so at most he could have $700.

Say he had $500 on the table plus the $500 chip he tossed to make change. I suppose the floor could have ruled that the amount he bought in for was set at the beginning of the hand, and either count the $500 chip or not. I think it’s absolutely wrong to count that chip to the extent it puts him over the $700 max. And unless he stated and the dealer confirmed an amount that was playing at the beginning of the hand, I’d argue that the $500 chip should not play at all.

Sounds like a real mess. There is the potential for angles on both sides.

My guess is that the floor ruled only the chips in front of him played, not the $500 chip he tossed to someone else at the beginning of the hand.

 

[trever]

Too bad the dealer didn't preempt all of this in the very beginning by enforcing the buying rule at the start of the hand.

If he hadn't blinked his boat on the river would you have rebated him the $300 extra?

Would he have claimed the limit was $700 so he shouldn't have to pay more if he had lost?

 

[CraigT78]

I bet that it was ruled that he has his whole stack in play, as no one challenged his rebuy amount until after the hand started.

 

[pltrgyst]

I bet that it was ruled that he has his whole stack in play, as no one challenged his rebuy amount until after the hand started.

That wouldn't surprise me either, but it is a house/dealer responsibility, not any player's.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Seat 6 had actually pulled 2 $500 chips out of his pocket, but not at the same time. He pulled one out, changed out small chips with the big stack and then pulled out the second one and put it on top of his stack. So he was trying to go North without the dealer noticing IMO.

Though unless he handed the dealer $1000 in cash he probably wouldn’t have said anything anyways. This dealer cares more about being everyone’s friend to get his tips than running the game.

 

[Perthmike]

I don't understand how this is an issue. At my local, the dealer would call the poker manager, get them to check the video of him reloading and it would be an easy call for them to rule his stack as $700.

 

[Hornet]

I don’t know what the floor ruled, but that shouldn’t be more than $500 in play. Definitely not $1000.

And next time I play in Cleveland, my radar will be up. It definitely plays like a friendly game (until someone angles).

 

[JustinInMN]

That wouldn't surprise me either, but it is a house/dealer responsibility, not any player's.

Players have a responsibility to protect the game as well. And what Rhodeman just said is part of the reason why.

This dealer cares more about being everyone’s friend to get his tips than running the game.

That said I would think any reasonable floor could figure out what the max was based on objective facts and ruled no more than the max at the start of the hand was live.

But I am guessing that's not what happened. Unfortunately, bad rulings are another risk of poker.

 

[Anthony Martino]

but I can’t see his whole stack clearly.

Alright, that part is certainly your responsibility

He then says he has $1000 and I say you can’t, that the most you could have started the hand with is $700 (table max-buy in).

This seems cut-and-dry. If the table max is $700 and he just bought in on this hand, I can't see how it can be ruled he had $1,000 available to be paid on

He gets very angry and starts cussing at me.

What do think was ruled?

I'm hoping it's that he shouldn't be cussing you out at the table and he also shouldn't be angle-shooting and he was 86'd, but I'm guessing the exact opposite

 

[horseshoez]

Tell his has to come to Orange County and that you have a friend there with some “interesting friends” loool

 

[Payback]

I see this quite a bit in my games as well. Just last week some fish, I mean guy, went bust and tried to buy in for 1k over the max. The players all noticed, and noone said anything, myself included. It took a hand for the dealer to notice and then told him to take the chips off. Perhaps the dealer didn't notice in this instance as that was one chip. My guy literally came back with 4 racks of red.

Side note: I have had many arguments with floors about $500 chips in play in games under 5/10 NL. They aren't needed. This is another example why.

Most of the times players don't mind having extra money on the table and usually are not going to be the ones enforcing the buy in rules. Therefore the dealers have to be the bad guys on this and enforce it. In this situation it should be ruled at $700 max, but I'm pretty confident @Rhodeman77 had to pay the full $1k. Otherwise there is too much potential for angling.

 

[Rhodeman77]

If the betting had been different where we put bets in on each street and by the river we were all-in I probably wouldn’t have realized he was over the table max and just paid out the money. But since we had it all go in on the flop and he announced the total I caught it. My reaction was almost a stream of thought that I verbalized.

Going North is a pretty common practice I was told by one of the regulars I know at the main table. I normally leave once I am called to the main game since it usually plays much bigger and often changes over to a $5/10 (uncapped) game at some point. Last night was different with the high hand bonus so I was willing to stick around.

 

[ruskba]

Can’t you just rack up and leave if you lost and haven’t put your chips in the pot yet? Seem to remember that working out for someone...

 

[Anthony Martino]

Just tell him it was a joke bet!

 

[Rhodeman77]

Results:

To my utter surprise the dealer actually stands firm that the most he can have in play to start the hand is $700, he doesn’t even call the floor over.

He even reconstructs the preflop bet to see how much he already had in the pot and says I owe $680 (the flop bets hadn’t been pulled in). This is the first time I have ever seen this dealer take a firm stance with a regular.

A few hands later I get it all in with the same guy when he flopped the bottom end of the straight when I had top set and a Royal draw. I made a full house to double up through him to get some of my money back.

My wife texted me s few minutes later to remind me I had to work in the morning and I left.

As soon as I left seat 6 started complaining and bitching to the table. My friend stood up for me and even said the dealer should have enforced the table limit at the time of the buy in.

If I would have won the hand and realized he was over the table limit I would not have kept his money. I have won hands before where someone thought I covered them and stormed off the table and I counted it down and gave them the extra money later.

 

[CraigT78]

This is the first time I have ever seen this dealer take a firm stance with a regular.

I'm shocked.

My wife texted me s few minutes later to remind me I had to work in the morning and I left.

How nice of her!

 

[JustinInMN]

He even reconstructs the preflop bet to see how much he already had in the pot and says I owe $680 (the flop bets hadn’t been pulled in). This is the first time I have ever seen this dealer take a firm stance with a regular.

Nice though in part, he might have been trying to avoid a floor call knowing this situation was cut and dry enough anyway the floor ruling would be clear and he might have been trying to avoid some accountability for not catching this at the time of the buy-in.

Still don't want to be too cynical about the dealer handling it the right way himself and the right outcome.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Nice though in part, he might have been trying to avoid a floor call knowing this situation was cut and dry enough anyway the floor ruling would be clear and he might have been trying to avoid some accountability for not catching this at the time of the buy-in.

Still don't want to be too cynical about the dealer handling it the right way himself and the right outcome.

The funny thing is I thought the same exact thing! That he didn’t want the scrutiny of management on him.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Side note, I want to play against the guy in seat 6 as much as possible!! He put his stack (what he thought was $1k) all-in with bottom set, no redraw in what his best case is a coin flip and the rest of the time he is drawing to 1 out.

Then he called my pot bet and turn shove with with 9 10 on a JQKhh board with no redraw as well.

 

[Gobbs]

Side note, I want to play against the guy in seat 6 as much as possible!! He put his stack (what he thought was $1k) all-in with bottom set, no redraw in what his best case is a coin flip and the rest of the time he is drawing to 1 out.

Then he called my pot bet and turn shove with with 9 10 on a JQKhh board with no redraw as well.

He was playing Hold’em with four cards, not Omaha.

 

[WedgeRock]

My wife texted me s few minutes later to remind me I had to work in the m

Wife needs to hush as you were obviously on the clock making money.

At1:31:

 

[mike32]

Wife needs to hush as you were obviously on the clock making money.

At1:31:

One of the funniest local Detroit news videos ever!

To loosely quote this Detroit cleanup hero “If someone was yelling at me it must have been a woman. I don’t listen to no woman, I tell them to shut up”

 

[Beakertwang]

One of the funniest local Detroit news videos ever!

To loosely quote this Detroit cleanup hero “If someone was yelling at me it must have been a woman. I don’t listen to no woman, I tell them to shut up”

To his credit, he’s not racist. Black, white, Polish, Ukrainian, Martian—he’ll help them all!