Seat Rental vs Monthly Membership for home game? (1 Viewer)

[cruzer]

Checked out some posts about rake because I want to start encouraging my good buddies that I play with weekly to invest into our game that I host. Donations are always hit or miss and I think having something standard and consistent would be well received but I just want to get it right the first time so the guys won't have to think about it again. I'd say we are close since we play once a week but most of us share a relationship that doesn't go beyond poker.

I have a near perfect location, plenty of parking in a lot behind my house, poker room/man cave, I dedicated deal all night (one buddy who used to host a game will spell me for an hour or so usually). I already splurged on a custom table build/felt and am ready to start getting into custom chips/higher quality chips. I want to upgrade/add amenities but don't want to pay for it myself.

Have a great core of regs but want to grow my game and bring in new fish!

I am looking for a consistent stream of "donations" from my regs to put back into the game 100% but not sure what the best process is. Anyone care to share some advice and explain how seat rental or monthly membership can work? For context, I live in California and would not like to break the law or do anything frowned upon! TIA

Luke

 

[Eriks]

I’d say most don’t care about what chips they play with and us chippers buy our expensive sets mostly for our own pleasure. Are you sure your players care enough to pay for better chips?

I assume they will start caring about the service though, once they’re paying to play. Sounds like you’re gonna be running a cardroom rather than a homegame. I have no idea about legality in your location, but personally I would stop coming.

 

[Felt_Lizard]

I will say what many on this board feel.

The mere mention of a rake, or monthly subscription or seat rental ~on this board~ will go over like a loud fart in church.

And I'm putting it... *diplomatically.*

You are on a forum where the members take a very deep pride in hosting, and have a love for the game that goes far beyond dollars.

Their enthusiasm stems from providing their players the finest experience in poker.

Sure, that includes top shelf "stuff" (nice chips, quality cards, sweet table, etc etc)...EVEN THOUGH VERY FEW PLAYERS EVEN REALIZE THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS.

Forum members want more than anything else to make a night of safe, entertaining, funny, friendly, wild, fair card play. And they are so dedicated to this that the very idea of paying them, like a performing whore (@Josh Kifer), is distasteful.

I've always refused $$ that players have attempted to donate at my hosted friendly local games.

Players here let attending forum members help fund parts (beer, meals, a guest bartender, etc... etc) of special events like large meetups, but for the most part....that's it.

Player, though I would not go down the path that you've asked about, I do wish you, and your game, the best of luck.

 

[LeLe]

U say "Donation", I say Rake

Prob be better to tell your player straight you collecting Rake/Fee rather than using word like Donations.

 

[SwissChip]

A raked home game to get better chips - i don‘n know…
‚My‘ players would never pay for better chips.
And i would never ask for money to get chips.
They really appreciate a nice chip set but no problem if not.
It should be a pleasure for you to share your nice chips with friends/other players.
Otherwise you run a (possibly illegal) card room, and where is the fun…?

 

[Timmah]

Since joining this site 2 years ago, I have spent thousands of dollars buying custom Tina tournament chips, custom Paulson cash set, custom BR limit set, custom TChan layout, Barrington table for a second table, Barrington topper, shuffle tech shuffler, new adjustable chairs for the tables, dealer buttons, so many decks of cards, horse racing board and upgrades, champion card protectors, TVs to show the blinds, $120 in pizza every game, and another $80-$100 in snacks and drinks every game. I have never asked for a single penny from anyone who attends. I have never accepted a single penny from anyone who has offered. I do it for the love of the game. If I make any money at the game, it will be on the table.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Since joining this site 2 years ago, I have spent thousands of dollars buying custom Tina tournament chips, custom Paulson cash set, custom BR limit set, custom TChan layout, Barrington table for a second table, Barrington topper, shuffle tech shuffler, new adjustable chairs for the tables, dealer buttons, so many decks of cards, horse racing board and upgrades, champion card protectors, TVs to show the blinds, $120 in pizza every game, and another $80-$100 in snacks and drinks every game. I have never asked for a single penny from anyone who attends. I have never accepted a single penny from anyone who has offered. I do it for the love of the game. If I make any money at the game, it will be on the table.

I'm right there with you up until the food & drinks. I dont mind providing a $5 case of water & $20 in hot dogs & rolls but if $120 in pizza is getting ordered everyone who's gonna eat divides that up. It would be different if the players took turns hosting and the host provides food, but if the game is always at my place, nope.

 

[PseudoPsanity]

I think there is a difference between donations for food/drink and donations for poker supplies.

I paid for a hotdog, I got a hotdog.
I paid for poker chips, you got poker chips.

 

[drgg]

Do I see 25 cent chips? If it's Smaller than a 1/2 it's going to be hard to justify any sort of rake or donation since compared to the game the donation may be significant. And yeah, players don't care about investment in chips and other upgrades. Only thing players really care about would be a dealer, but don't rake, if your dealing maybe you can accept tips for dealing.

 

[Machine]

I don't mind a rake, it's part of life here, in IN for most games. It is also the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony here, though, so make sure you understand your local laws.

You and your crowd seem young, so I'm going to be blunt.

Your space for poker is crowded; I would not be interested in playing in that space for a rake. But if your players don't know any better, you can likely get away with it.

If I'm paying a rake, I expect at some point I can get credit if needed, I expect any liquor I might fancy, a hot meal. If I get hungry I would also expect the host to doordash or go get me what I ask for. I would expect snacks and a variety of soda, water, and juice. I would expect a dealer. I would expect a competent dealer, one that knows how to properly shuffle and understands procedures for mistakes.

I expect a reasonable level of security.

Your players seem to have about 150 in the photos, I'm going to say on any given game night your slightly less than average player has a budget of 500, which is I'm guessing high for your game. You have fracs in the game.

I'll guess you're playing .5/.5 and NLH. Let start with Casinos, that has a license to run poker games, they have costs and overhead, like liquor licenses and dealers. So almost all of them have moved to a 1/3 this is designed to extract the full rake with flop bets, and this game is typically going to be an avg of 300 buy ins where if a player can't buy 5 or 6 buys, the other 4 players waiting for the seat does have it.

lets say you plan to pull 1 on 10 max of 5, so that's $5 on a $50 pot. I buy in for 100, and lets say its a ton of action, and your dealer isn't so good, 17 hands an hour. So the first two hours I'm there, you've taken 170 USD off the table. You are going to lose players and not because they don't want to play or pay the rake, they can't afford it, they will run out of money. Quite literally can't fade the rake. People will start to pick up on that there are no winners from the poker game. No one cashed out a winner? Why? Because the Rake

Okay you say so I'll only take 2 a hand, that's much better, now it takes you 3 hours to get my buy in and again this is without you winning a single hand. Lets say its a felony to run a game and take a rake, is 300 bucks a night worth the cost of a Lawyer to defend you?

I ask for a modest seat fee, just to cover some of the food. I offer liquor, beer, ridiculous coffee (I have a bur grinder and make espresso for Americanos, Cappuccinos, and even Affogato ), water and sodas and a hot home made meal. I don't like to provide chips as snacks because of the mess. I have a dealer and a shuffler, and a very nice table.

It seems you want to do this to upgrade the equipment, but don't do that. There are similar threads on this topic, you can search for them, lots of advise on here.

What you have right now with your group in those photos is worth so much more than better chips, I assure you!

 

[CraigT78]

I've been charging at my game since inception. It started with a donation box, and when that stopped yielding, I switched to a "hospitality fee" that I baked into the buy-in of my monthly tournament. I raised it this year to cover the rising cost of everything.

It covers a fridge full of beverages, two beers on tap, nitro cold brew coffee, espresso drinks from the super automatic, hot dogs and brats, and pizza at 7pm. I charge $25 and it covers any pickup cash games that I also host.

I'm all for the love of the game opinions on here, but my guys are lazy and prefer to walk in empty handed.

 

[Natskule]

It can be done, but it is tricky transitioning friends to customers and keeping them as friends.

 

[LotsOfChips]

I want to upgrade/add amenities but don't want to pay for it myself.

Sorry, you lost me right here.

I want a lot of things in life, but I figured out long ago that getting them was up to me, and that I shouldn't expect others to pay for it (unless I started a business, and then everything is fair game).

Food/drinks? Sure, having others pay their own freight is all well and good. I'm happy to pay for things I consume. If I choose not to partake of your booze and food, though, I would expect to be able to opt out.

Chips, chairs, table, etc? You're the host. Suck it up. Don't ask me to pay for all of that, unless you allow me to take some of it home afterwards. Or unless you make it clear that you're in it for profit and that your game is a business.

 

[TheYeti]

Chips, chairs, table, etc? You're the host. Suck it up. Don't ask me to pay for all of that, unless you allow me to take some of it home afterwards. Or unless you make it clear that you're in it for profit and that your game is a business.

Yup.

What if your game dies or you are unwilling/unable to host any longer and decide to sell all your gear? Do your players who paid for a portion get a cut of the proceeds?

 

[Jimulacrum]

I will say what many on this board feel.

The mere mention of a rake, or monthly subscription or seat rental ~on this board~ will go over like a loud fart in church.

And I'm putting it... *diplomatically.*

You are on a forum where the members take a very deep pride in hosting, and have a love for the game that goes far beyond dollars.

Their enthusiasm stems from providing their players the finest experience in poker.

Sure, that includes top shelf "stuff" (nice chips, quality cards, sweet table, etc etc)...EVEN THOUGH VERY FEW PLAYERS EVEN REALIZE THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS.

Forum members want more than anything else to make a night of safe, entertaining, funny, friendly, wild, fair card play. And they are so dedicated to this that the very idea of paying them, like a performing whore (@Josh Kifer), is distasteful.

I've always refused $$ that players have attempted to donate at my hosted friendly local games.

Players here let attending forum members help fund parts (beer, meals, a guest bartender, etc... etc) of special events like large meetups, but for the most part....that's it.

Player, though I would not go down the path that you've asked about, I do wish you, and your game, the best of luck.

Hear, hear!

Low-stakes private raked games have the worst of both worlds.

The rake substantially reduces the ability of your players to win (especially at low stakes), and thus their willingness/ability to return indefinitely, i.e., your player pool will shrink faster than that of an unraked game, all else being equal. Also, a lot of players avoid raked private games generally, whether due to the money or the feeling of being involved in something sketchy. All of these factors will make it harder to keep seats filled.

But you can't really advertise to the public, right? You also can't be as picky as an unraked game due to the faster turnover. So you'll have to let in players you might not otherwise, if you were running a true home game. And they'll be more likely to misbehave and/or disrespect your property* because they're not simply guests in your home, but paying customers of a business.

The result is a game that has a lower-quality player pool than an unraked game and has a different ethos. I get the need to fund the things you're playing with, but for most of us those things are the cost of our hobby, not business expenses. Crossing that line changes things a lot.

Spoiler: *

Just one example is that players may feel more free to take home your chips as souvenirs. I'd never do this at a true home game; it's stealing the host's equipment. But if the game is raked, I see it the same way I see taking chips from a casino.

 

[Natskule]

Hear, hear!

Low-stakes private raked games have the worst of both worlds.

The rake substantially reduces the ability of your players to win (especially at low stakes), and thus their willingness/ability to return indefinitely, i.e., your player pool will shrink faster than that of an unraked game, all else being equal. Also, a lot of players avoid raked private games generally, whether due to the money or the feeling of being involved in something sketchy. All of these factors will make it harder to keep seats filled.

But you can't really advertise to the public, right? You also can't be as picky as an unraked game due to the faster turnover. So you'll have to let in players you might not otherwise, if you were running a true home game. And they'll be more likely to misbehave and/or disrespect your property* because they're not simply guests in your home, but paying customers of a business.

The result is a game that has a lower-quality player pool than an unraked game and has a different ethos. I get the need to fund the things you're playing with, but for most of us those things are the cost of our hobby, not business expenses. Crossing that line changes things a lot.

Spoiler: *

Just one example is that players may feel more free to take home your chips as souvenirs. I'd never do this at a true home game; it's stealing the host's equipment. But if the game is raked, I see it the same way I see taking chips from a casino.

Well put.

 

[cruzer]

I’d say most don’t care about what chips they play with and us chippers buy our expensive sets mostly for our own pleasure. Are you sure your players care enough to pay for better chips?

I assume they will start caring about the service though, once they’re paying to play. Sounds like you’re gonna be running a cardroom rather than a homegame. I have no idea about legality in your location, but personally I would stop coming.

Great point! Thanks for the perspective!

 

[cruzer]

I will say what many on this board feel.

The mere mention of a rake, or monthly subscription or seat rental ~on this board~ will go over like a loud fart in church.

And I'm putting it... *diplomatically.*

You are on a forum where the members take a very deep pride in hosting, and have a love for the game that goes far beyond dollars.

Their enthusiasm stems from providing their players the finest experience in poker.

Sure, that includes top shelf "stuff" (nice chips, quality cards, sweet table, etc etc)...EVEN THOUGH VERY FEW PLAYERS EVEN REALIZE THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS.

Forum members want more than anything else to make a night of safe, entertaining, funny, friendly, wild, fair card play. And they are so dedicated to this that the very idea of paying them, like a performing whore (@Josh Kifer), is distasteful.

I've always refused $$ that players have attempted to donate at my hosted friendly local games.

Players here let attending forum members help fund parts (beer, meals, a guest bartender, etc... etc) of special events like large meetups, but for the most part....that's it.

Player, though I would not go down the path that you've asked about, I do wish you, and your game, the best of luck.

Thank you for your thoughts on this topic! Glad to get this perspective! Definitely cooling off the idea now!

 

[cruzer]

U say "Donation", I say Rake

Prob be better to tell your player straight you collecting Rake/Fee rather than using word like Donations.

I can see how it would be misconstrued easily. Thanks for the insight!

 

[cruzer]

A raked home game to get better chips - i don‘n know…
‚My‘ players would never pay for better chips.
And i would never ask for money to get chips.
They really appreciate a nice chip set but no problem if not.
It should be a pleasure for you to share your nice chips with friends/other players.
Otherwise you run a (possibly illegal) card room, and where is the fun…?

Yeah I didn't understand how quickly the dynamic of the game could change if I did ask for donations. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[cruzer]

Since joining this site 2 years ago, I have spent thousands of dollars buying custom Tina tournament chips, custom Paulson cash set, custom BR limit set, custom TChan layout, Barrington table for a second table, Barrington topper, shuffle tech shuffler, new adjustable chairs for the tables, dealer buttons, so many decks of cards, horse racing board and upgrades, champion card protectors, TVs to show the blinds, $120 in pizza every game, and another $80-$100 in snacks and drinks every game. I have never asked for a single penny from anyone who attends. I have never accepted a single penny from anyone who has offered. I do it for the love of the game. If I make any money at the game, it will be on the table.

See this is what I want to eventually provide! Good to know it's the burden of the host. Thanks for sharing!

 

[cruzer]

I'm right there with you up until the food & drinks. I dont mind providing a $5 case of water & $20 in hot dogs & rolls but if $120 in pizza is getting ordered everyone who's gonna eat divides that up. It would be different if the players took turns hosting and the host provides food, but if the game is always at my place, nope.

Luckily we already do a good job of splitting up food and drinks! Thanks for the reply!

 

[cruzer]

I don't mind a rake, it's part of life here, in IN for most games. It is also the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony here, though, so make sure you understand your local laws.

You and your crowd seem young, so I'm going to be blunt.

Your space for poker is crowded; I would not be interested in playing in that space for a rake. But if your players don't know any better, you can likely get away with it.

If I'm paying a rake, I expect at some point I can get credit if needed, I expect any liquor I might fancy, a hot meal. If I get hungry I would also expect the host to doordash or go get me what I ask for. I would expect snacks and a variety of soda, water, and juice. I would expect a dealer. I would expect a competent dealer, one that knows how to properly shuffle and understands procedures for mistakes.

I expect a reasonable level of security.

Your players seem to have about 150 in the photos, I'm going to say on any given game night your slightly less than average player has a budget of 500, which is I'm guessing high for your game. You have fracs in the game.

I'll guess you're playing .5/.5 and NLH. Let start with Casinos, that has a license to run poker games, they have costs and overhead, like liquor licenses and dealers. So almost all of them have moved to a 1/3 this is designed to extract the full rake with flop bets, and this game is typically going to be an avg of 300 buy ins where if a player can't buy 5 or 6 buys, the other 4 players waiting for the seat does have it.

lets say you plan to pull 1 on 10 max of 5, so that's $5 on a $50 pot. I buy in for 100, and lets say its a ton of action, and your dealer isn't so good, 17 hands an hour. So the first two hours I'm there, you've taken 170 USD off the table. You are going to lose players and not because they don't want to play or pay the rake, they can't afford it, they will run out of money. Quite literally can't fade the rake. People will start to pick up on that there are no winners from the poker game. No one cashed out a winner? Why? Because the Rake

Okay you say so I'll only take 2 a hand, that's much better, now it takes you 3 hours to get my buy in and again this is without you winning a single hand. Lets say its a felony to run a game and take a rake, is 300 bucks a night worth the cost of a Lawyer to defend you?

I ask for a modest seat fee, just to cover some of the food. I offer liquor, beer, ridiculous coffee (I have a bur grinder and make espresso for Americanos, Cappuccinos, and even Affogato ), water and sodas and a hot home made meal. I don't like to provide chips as snacks because of the mess. I have a dealer and a shuffler, and a very nice table.

It seems you want to do this to upgrade the equipment, but don't do that. There are similar threads on this topic, you can search for them, lots of advise on here.

What you have right now with your group in those photos is worth so much more than better chips, I assure you!

This was the advice I was looking for! Last think I would want is to bust up the good thing we have going. Thanks for your time and thoughtfulness in your response!

 

[chippitydoodah]

Luckily we already do a good job of splitting up food and drinks! Thanks for the reply!

Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with @Timmah being the consumate host and treating his group to a great night out.

 

[cruzer]

Sorry, you lost me right here.

I want a lot of things in life, but I figured out long ago that getting them was up to me, and that I shouldn't expect others to pay for it (unless I started a business, and then everything is fair game).

Food/drinks? Sure, having others pay their own freight is all well and good. I'm happy to pay for things I consume. If I choose not to partake of your booze and food, though, I would expect to be able to opt out.

Chips, chairs, table, etc? You're the host. Suck it up. Don't ask me to pay for all of that, unless you allow me to take some of it home afterwards. Or unless you make it clear that you're in it for profit and that your game is a business.

A perspective I was not considering at all! Didn't mean to come off as trying to run a business, more like mutually sharing the benefits of some upgrades. But makes total sense and I'm not considering anymore! Thank you for your reply!

 

[cruzer]

Hear, hear!

Low-stakes private raked games have the worst of both worlds.

The rake substantially reduces the ability of your players to win (especially at low stakes), and thus their willingness/ability to return indefinitely, i.e., your player pool will shrink faster than that of an unraked game, all else being equal. Also, a lot of players avoid raked private games generally, whether due to the money or the feeling of being involved in something sketchy. All of these factors will make it harder to keep seats filled.

But you can't really advertise to the public, right? You also can't be as picky as an unraked game due to the faster turnover. So you'll have to let in players you might not otherwise, if you were running a true home game. And they'll be more likely to misbehave and/or disrespect your property* because they're not simply guests in your home, but paying customers of a business.

The result is a game that has a lower-quality player pool than an unraked game and has a different ethos. I get the need to fund the things you're playing with, but for most of us those things are the cost of our hobby, not business expenses. Crossing that line changes things a lot.

Spoiler: *

Just one example is that players may feel more free to take home your chips as souvenirs. I'd never do this at a true home game; it's stealing the host's equipment. But if the game is raked, I see it the same way I see taking chips from a casino.

Definitely don't want to cross that line and didn't realize how close I was to doing so! Appreciate your time and thoughts in the response!

 

[doublebooyah85]

I don't mind a rake, it's part of life here, in IN for most games. It is also the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony here, though, so make sure you understand your local laws.

You and your crowd seem young, so I'm going to be blunt.

Your space for poker is crowded; I would not be interested in playing in that space for a rake. But if your players don't know any better, you can likely get away with it.

If I'm paying a rake, I expect at some point I can get credit if needed, I expect any liquor I might fancy, a hot meal. If I get hungry I would also expect the host to doordash or go get me what I ask for. I would expect snacks and a variety of soda, water, and juice. I would expect a dealer. I would expect a competent dealer, one that knows how to properly shuffle and understands procedures for mistakes.

I expect a reasonable level of security.

Your players seem to have about 150 in the photos, I'm going to say on any given game night your slightly less than average player has a budget of 500, which is I'm guessing high for your game. You have fracs in the game.

I'll guess you're playing .5/.5 and NLH. Let start with Casinos, that has a license to run poker games, they have costs and overhead, like liquor licenses and dealers. So almost all of them have moved to a 1/3 this is designed to extract the full rake with flop bets, and this game is typically going to be an avg of 300 buy ins where if a player can't buy 5 or 6 buys, the other 4 players waiting for the seat does have it.

lets say you plan to pull 1 on 10 max of 5, so that's $5 on a $50 pot. I buy in for 100, and lets say its a ton of action, and your dealer isn't so good, 17 hands an hour. So the first two hours I'm there, you've taken 170 USD off the table. You are going to lose players and not because they don't want to play or pay the rake, they can't afford it, they will run out of money. Quite literally can't fade the rake. People will start to pick up on that there are no winners from the poker game. No one cashed out a winner? Why? Because the Rake

Okay you say so I'll only take 2 a hand, that's much better, now it takes you 3 hours to get my buy in and again this is without you winning a single hand. Lets say its a felony to run a game and take a rake, is 300 bucks a night worth the cost of a Lawyer to defend you?

I ask for a modest seat fee, just to cover some of the food. I offer liquor, beer, ridiculous coffee (I have a bur grinder and make espresso for Americanos, Cappuccinos, and even Affogato ), water and sodas and a hot home made meal. I don't like to provide chips as snacks because of the mess. I have a dealer and a shuffler, and a very nice table.

It seems you want to do this to upgrade the equipment, but don't do that. There are similar threads on this topic, you can search for them, lots of advise on here.

What you have right now with your group in those photos is worth so much more than better chips, I assure you!

Great feedback

 

[cruzer]

Thanks all for the thoughtful responses! Definitely wont make this mistake now!!!

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Checked out some posts about rake because I want to start encouraging my good buddies that I play with weekly to invest into our game that I host. Donations are always hit or miss and I think having something standard and consistent would be well received but I just want to get it right the first time so the guys won't have to think about it again. I'd say we are close since we play once a week but most of us share a relationship that doesn't go beyond poker.

I have a near perfect location, plenty of parking in a lot behind my house, poker room/man cave, I dedicated deal all night (one buddy who used to host a game will spell me for an hour or so usually). I already splurged on a custom table build/felt and am ready to start getting into custom chips/higher quality chips. I want to upgrade/add amenities but don't want to pay for it myself.

Have a great core of regs but want to grow my game and bring in new fish!

I am looking for a consistent stream of "donations" from my regs to put back into the game 100% but not sure what the best process is. Anyone care to share some advice and explain how seat rental or monthly membership can work? For context, I live in California and would not like to break the law or do anything frowned upon! TIA

Luke

Hey Luke!

I'm going to be brutally honest, but it's nothing more than my humble opinion.

The first thing I look for in poker peeps that I want to hang with is the "quality" of the person. As such, I have avoided taking a rake, or playing at raked games because I prefer more of a Social Club atmosphere. I have a fully open bar and I provide food whenever we play. My wife nearly shit herself in 2009 when I started hosting. 2 of my neighbors "accepted" donations, but that didn't feel right to me, so I nixed that at my game. As it turns out, my friends bring WAY MORE alcohol and food than I provide, and while I haven't kept track, I would estimate that I am thousands of $'s ahead of what I have expended. This is how my games and meet ups typically go. AMAZING friends bring top quality bourbon and Scotch and great food.

My personal opinion is that "friends" will jump ship in 2 seconds unless you create a nice social environment. Good friends always pitch in. If they ain't pitching in...drop them off the invite.

Just my two cents, but focus on "quality" players (that would do anything for you) not quantity!! The rest will work itself out.

Good luck Brother!!

 

[cruzer]

Hey Luke!

I'm going to be brutally honest, but it's nothing more than my humble opinion.

The first thing I look for in poker peeps that I want to hang with is the "quality" of the person. As such, I have avoided taking a rake, or playing at raked games because I prefer more of a Social Club atmosphere. I have a fully open bar and I provide food whenever we play. My wife nearly shit herself in 2009 when I started hosting. 2 of my neighbors "accepted" donations, but that didn't feel right to me, so I nixed that at my game. As it turns out, my friends bring WAY MORE alcohol and food than I provide, and while I haven't kept track, I would estimate that I am thousands of $'s ahead of what I have expended. This is how my games and meet ups typically go. AMAZING friends bring top quality bourbon and Scotch and great food.

My personal opinion is that "friends" will jump ship in 2 seconds unless you create a nice social environment. Good friends always pitch in. If they ain't pitching in...drop them off the invite.

Just my two cents, but focus on "quality" players (that would do anything for you) not quantity!! The rest will work itself out.

Good luck Brother!!

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Damn! That's what it's really all about! Thanks so much for sharing, this is all I could ever hope for!