MrCatPants
Full House
Unsolicited (?) offer to sell below market value sounds a little too good to be true, and further supports this isnt on the up and up.
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Scammed by USPS? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter doublebooyah85
- Start date
I'm leaving on a vacation in the morning, I'll be back next week if you want to PM me what you're asking for.
Now to go back and see what this thread is all about.
Enjoy the poop cruise.
OP
OP
My plan of action
1. Call my cc company get a refund. If this doesn’t work I sure hope Mike @SpaceMonkey420 reimburses me
2. Go to the post office and explain to them what happened. See if they want to open a case.
3. Mail the boxes and paper back to @SpaceMonkey420 so he can go to his local police and office to handle it on his end.
@SpaceMonkey420 please PM your shipping address
Until then I would caution all members buying chips from Mike @SpaceMonkey420
1. Call my cc company get a refund. If this doesn’t work I sure hope Mike @SpaceMonkey420 reimburses me
2. Go to the post office and explain to them what happened. See if they want to open a case.
3. Mail the boxes and paper back to @SpaceMonkey420 so he can go to his local police and office to handle it on his end.
@SpaceMonkey420 please PM your shipping address
Until then I would caution all members buying chips from Mike @SpaceMonkey420
joeyshin
Royal Flush
Couple years ago I sold 2 racks of $25s for $400. I shipped to the address they gave me which was like a commercial building. Tracking showed delivered with photo outside of the door. I messaged the guy and he said he didn’t get it. I send the picture to him and he says someone must have took it. I immediately refunded $400. I have a feeling he got the package and lied. He left pcf after that and I don’t think he’s been on since.
MatrixExplosion
3 of a Kind
As someone who's still new to the forum I can't comment on the situation, but I've worked within the banking industry for close to 15 years and this is what will happen when you dispute it.
PayPal will not do anything. It was a Friends and Family transaction, they wash their hands clean of the situation.
If there was insurance, your next step would be USPS but even in that case for high value packages like this, they will keep demanding the same info over and over again via registered mail and one day just deny the claim. Since no insurance, this is a non-issue.
When you dispute with the credit card company, there are two options:
1. If you say it was an unauthorized transaction, they will reimburse you given what I've read about your history and usage so far, and then PayPal will freeze your account because of a "fraudulent" transaction. You can get it back, but will need to jump through some hoops.
2. If you say it was an authorized transaction for a purchase of goods and that the other party scammed you, it can again go of two ways.
2a. One, your credit card company will ask you to deal with it with the seller first. When you say you've tried and didn't get anywhere they will contact Paypal. When PayPal informs them is was a friends and family payment you'll be back at square since PayPal refuse to do anything in this scenario and the credit card company will keep referring you to the payment vendor.
2b. Two, the credit card company will make you whole and then try to deal with it by going after PayPal. They will either get their money back or eat the cost to keep you as a customer and write it off.
From the 2a. and 2b options, it all depends on which customer service agent you end up with and how hard they are willing to work for you. I've seen a 70/30 split in my years at the bank. 30% they write it off, 70% they refer you back to the payment vendor.
If you go option 1 and say unauthorized, your technically committing fraud and it can have other issues with PayPal in the future but you usually get your money back.
Hope that helps
PayPal will not do anything. It was a Friends and Family transaction, they wash their hands clean of the situation.
If there was insurance, your next step would be USPS but even in that case for high value packages like this, they will keep demanding the same info over and over again via registered mail and one day just deny the claim. Since no insurance, this is a non-issue.
When you dispute with the credit card company, there are two options:
1. If you say it was an unauthorized transaction, they will reimburse you given what I've read about your history and usage so far, and then PayPal will freeze your account because of a "fraudulent" transaction. You can get it back, but will need to jump through some hoops.
2. If you say it was an authorized transaction for a purchase of goods and that the other party scammed you, it can again go of two ways.
2a. One, your credit card company will ask you to deal with it with the seller first. When you say you've tried and didn't get anywhere they will contact Paypal. When PayPal informs them is was a friends and family payment you'll be back at square since PayPal refuse to do anything in this scenario and the credit card company will keep referring you to the payment vendor.
2b. Two, the credit card company will make you whole and then try to deal with it by going after PayPal. They will either get their money back or eat the cost to keep you as a customer and write it off.
From the 2a. and 2b options, it all depends on which customer service agent you end up with and how hard they are willing to work for you. I've seen a 70/30 split in my years at the bank. 30% they write it off, 70% they refer you back to the payment vendor.
If you go option 1 and say unauthorized, your technically committing fraud and it can have other issues with PayPal in the future but you usually get your money back.
Hope that helps
MatrixExplosion
3 of a Kind
@doublebooyah85 please see above, forgot to tag you
OP
OP
Very helpful. Thanks for sharing. You covered everything very well.
joeyshin
Royal Flush
If you think through this, the possibility of a USPS worker stealing the chips and then filling the box with paper to the exact weight makes zero sense. It makes more sense to steal the contents and throw the box away and chalk it up to a lost package. Why would a worker go through the trouble of filling the box of paper knowing it’s only asking for trouble because you know the receiver is going to question what happened and make an issue about it?
So it was either shipped like that or DB is lying.
I have had more transactions with DB than I care to admit and have never not once had an issue.
So it was either shipped like that or DB is lying.
I have had more transactions with DB than I care to admit and have never not once had an issue.
OP
OP
@dennis63 had the same feedback
It requires all the forethought to think to make it the same weight and none of the forethought about what happens after the seller receives a box of paper.
Moxie Mike
Full House
I'm seeing a lot of speculation about shipping weights and integrity and whatnot - and I don't understand the relevance of most of the conversation.
If the seller insists that he packaged the expected items in the boxes as agreed upon, then we as a community must take him at his word since we have no basis to accuse him of anything. Without proof, even the title of this thread is inflammatory IMO.
FWIW, I've interacted with both the buyer and the seller and found both to be upstanding PCFers.
It seems the buyer received 2 boxes that contained reams of paper instead of the chips he expected. That must have been heartbreaking and infuriating to experience that. That sucks.
A couple things jump out at me:
1) Why did this package take 2 weeks to reach it's destination? The shipping label says '3 days'; even a week seems excessive unless it got lost in transit somehow.
2) The package seems to have been at the Sacramento facility for an extended period of time without any movement. That isn't normal.
I think it's pretty binary, either the seller didn't actually package the chips, or you're dealing with a theft situation within the USPS.
If you want my unsolicited opinion, I think the seller as an act of good faith should create an affidavit stating that the chips were packed in good faith with as much information as possible about the time of dropoff, method of payment, etc. and have it notarized before sending it to the buyer. From there, the buyer can take it up with the USPS through the appropriate channels.
If the seller insists that he packaged the expected items in the boxes as agreed upon, then we as a community must take him at his word since we have no basis to accuse him of anything. Without proof, even the title of this thread is inflammatory IMO.
FWIW, I've interacted with both the buyer and the seller and found both to be upstanding PCFers.
It seems the buyer received 2 boxes that contained reams of paper instead of the chips he expected. That must have been heartbreaking and infuriating to experience that. That sucks.
A couple things jump out at me:
1) Why did this package take 2 weeks to reach it's destination? The shipping label says '3 days'; even a week seems excessive unless it got lost in transit somehow.
2) The package seems to have been at the Sacramento facility for an extended period of time without any movement. That isn't normal.
I think it's pretty binary, either the seller didn't actually package the chips, or you're dealing with a theft situation within the USPS.
If you want my unsolicited opinion, I think the seller as an act of good faith should create an affidavit stating that the chips were packed in good faith with as much information as possible about the time of dropoff, method of payment, etc. and have it notarized before sending it to the buyer. From there, the buyer can take it up with the USPS through the appropriate channels.
Moxie Mike
Full House
Thieves aren't always the brightest of people.
OP
OP
Thanks for the feedback. Great suggestion.
Have you not mailed anything with the usps in the last 2 years lol. I’ve had countless delays.
And as many have mentioned if a usps employee would steal they would just take the package…not put paper in it that is the exact weight of the shipment.
And if they did decide to steal, they would do it in a day, not delay the package causing more eyes on the problem.
And how did usps employee know the package is valuable?
And why did seller take weeks before to sell me chips above market price via sales ad on pcf, but this time text me a below market price set and not offer it up to others.
And why did seller not go to the post office for over 10 days when I asked him to bc the item was delayed.
OP
OP
LeLe
4 of a Kind
Don't do that, the paper could be used as evidence.
Example: Finding DNA / fingerprint on the paper when one claim they never touch it is a good indicator
Also, trying to sell chips fast at way under marketprice is a huge tell. No one is doing that unless is between close friends
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I weighed 1750 HSI chips when I got home and they weighed 37.4 lbs, just in warneke boxes. No LFRBx2 or tape.
I have a very short list of PCF members I avoid doing business with at all costs! And @SpaceMonkey420 is one of them that has been on it since December of 2023 for stringing me along on some Aria tribute chips he never followed through with. Nothing anywhere as sever as what’s happening here. Sorry @doublebooyah85, I hope you get justice.
Moxie Mike
Full House
Hey man, I respect you, I sympathize with the situation and I'm not trying to play devil's advocate.
My position is this: If he says he packaged the chips as promised then we have nothing else to go on.
My position is this: If he says he packaged the chips as promised then we have nothing else to go on.
Sure - occasional delays by a day or two are normal... but two weeks? Unless there's a natural disaster or some other bullshit going on, this seems excessive.
This is speculative and doesn't really advance the conversation. I don't know how USPS thieves operate but one might surmise the thrill of potentially being discovered is at least part of the game. Maybe the thief - if that's indeed what happened - is in it for more than just the items themselves. Maybe he thinks he outsmarted you. Or maybe he wants you to know you got ripped off. Who TF knows?
Again - we may not be dealing with the best and the brightest here. Stealing from the USPS is -EV. Any sane, rational person already knows this.
Dunno. Maybe he took a flyer on a heavier-than-average package and struck gold. Who TF knows?
Dunno. I can't speak to the deal the two of you negotiated nor read anything into the communication channels you used. It's reasonable to speculate that you might be right, especially if you're perceived as deep-pocketed/trusting/etc. But that's not for me to comment on.
I don't know but I'm not sure what you think the seller could learn from following up once the package has left the facility of origin. If you mailed something and 10 days later the buyer hadn't received it, what can you (as a seller) do really? Outside of initiating some type of formal inquiry, I don't know what your expectations were when you asked him to look into it.
I’m pretty sure that my PayPal account is on the short side of this $50K circle jerk merry-go-round
I think we do, and I would argue this is why integrity matters. People's actions also play into the equation.
Fully caught up now.
A few observations - me and @doublebooyah85 sharing the same first name made seeing my name all over this thread confusing.
Space monkey 420 has been on my blocked list for quite a while.
When I shipped HSI's to @Rhodeman77 USPS straight up stole a box. There is no way in the processing of packages is someone going to stop, grab a box, go somewhere where they aren't on video taking out contents and replacing them with the exact weight in loose leaf paper. The mental gymnastics needed to get there are, well, mental.
Good luck with the credit card charge back, I hope it works out because I'd be willing to bet that $5k all went to drugs and have been fully consumed by now.
A few observations - me and @doublebooyah85 sharing the same first name made seeing my name all over this thread confusing.
Space monkey 420 has been on my blocked list for quite a while.
When I shipped HSI's to @Rhodeman77 USPS straight up stole a box. There is no way in the processing of packages is someone going to stop, grab a box, go somewhere where they aren't on video taking out contents and replacing them with the exact weight in loose leaf paper. The mental gymnastics needed to get there are, well, mental.
Good luck with the credit card charge back, I hope it works out because I'd be willing to bet that $5k all went to drugs and have been fully consumed by now.
justsomedude
Royal Flush
And that’s the rub…
DB is one of the most reliable and trustworthy buyers/sellers on the forum. Targeting him as the potential fraudster in this (alleged) con was the biggest mistake; I’m not sure there’s anyone here who would ever believe he would swap out chips with a ream of paper just for a few grand.
Moxie Mike
Full House
It seems as though there at least a couple others here who've had negative interactions with the seller. That doesn't bode well for him overall but I always try to take people at face value based on my own personal experience. So IMO, an innocent until proven otherwise approach would serve the community best.
LeLe
4 of a Kind
Actually, if I want to fraud someone.
Eccentric person with some unconventional history
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What proof would satisfy you in this case? Just curious. Short of the seller admitting he scammed it seems this is as much circumstantial evidence as we could ever get.
justsomedude
Royal Flush
For getting some money maybe.
But as for believing the bullshit story afterwards, not so much.
An affidavit.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
I plan to file a claim on Monday at the post office, and the police station. I'll share the results once I have them. This situation isn't over. Far from it. It’s been a few hours. I'm of course considering issuing a refund and even selling more chips with JWC acting as escrow since he's nearby and has offered to help. I need some time to think things through, gather my thoughts, and come up with a good solution. Right now the strange request for pictures of the boxes longggg after I sent them, and long after I sent the tracking information yet before they arrived, along with the request for half back immediately, while also seeking a full refund from the credit card, is quite a lot to process in a short few hours to say the least.
Read the room, no one is buying this is even remotely possibly a money grab by Booyah.
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