Tourney Sanity check on quantities for custom tourney set (1 Viewer)

[CSW]

Hi, everyone. Getting ready to order my first custom set (after getting some very helpful feedback form the community on my design). As I wait for my inlay designer to finish his work, I want to nail down my quantities of each denomination. I’ve read all of the super helpful information in the new-member area and the posts linked there—and on down the rabbit hole to many of the links in the links in the links … . And I’ve used the chip claulcator to check my work here. So much good info. Love this community.

Anyway, below is a breakdown of what I am planning to order as well as some details about our game and the expectation for the set. Just looking for a gut check to see if I am missing anything that I will be kicking myself about when I get the set and start using it. Given how tough it seems to be to add on with CPC, I am hoping to future-proof this set as much as reasonably possible as my game is somewhat new and growing.

Proposed set:

300 x T25
300 x T100
130 x T500
220 x T1000
100 x T5000
10 x T25000
40 x Bounty/All-In chips

TOTAL = 1100 (I would like to have a total that fits evenly in full racks if possible. I do have 30 table/seat tokens to fill out another rack if we think another 70 chips would get used, which seems unlikely)​

Our game:

• Blinds and starting stacks: We typically run a $20 bounty tournament with 10K starting stacks with one optional re-buy and a T25 base—starting blinds at 50-100 (100). I plan on using a 12/12/5/6/x starting stack. I am planning to sprinkle in some occasional $40 games with 20K starting stacks.
• Average number of players: We average about 13—16 players per game, and have never had more than 17. However, our roster of invitees has recently grown from about 20 to 33, so I am expecting at least some growth in attendees when we resume next year.
• Expected maximum of players: For the foreseeable future, we will never exceed 3 full tables because we don’t currently have space for a fourth. Our current setup of tables can fit 24/25 comfortably, so I am designing the set for 25 players. But if everyone on our list starts showing up regularly, we could conceivably have space for 30, so I’d like the set to be expandable to cover 30.

Rationale for the quantities:

Ideal scenario — 25 starting stacks (12/12/5/6/x) with 10 rebuys (3 x T5000 plus 5 x T1000)

• T25s (300): 25 starting stacks x 12 chips = 300
• T100s (300): 25 starting stacks x 12 chips = 300
• T500s (130): 25 starting stacks 5 chips = 125 (Rounding up to at least a half-barrel so that my brain doesn’t hurt too much when I see the racks)
• T1000s (220):

• 25 starting stacks x 6 chips = 150
• 10 rebuy stacks x 5 chips = 50
• Depending on whether people are good about showing up on time, I might instead offer an extra T1000 as an on-time bonus and use 4 x T5000s for rebuys.
• Coloring up the T25s = 8 or 9 chips.
• Round up to a full barrel because its always good to have a few extra T1000

• T5000 (100):

• 25 starting stacks (for the larger 20K stack games) x 2 chips = 50
• 10 rebuy stacks x 3 or 4 chips (for larger 20K stack games) = 30 or 40
• Coloring up the T100s = 6 or 7 chips
• Coloring up the T500s = 13 or 14 chips (if we ended up with the full number of rebuys, I could use T25000 chips to color up the T500s)

• T25000 (10): Coloring up the T500s = 3 chips (round up to at least a half-barrel)
• Bounties (40): Should be plenty, even with rebuys, for a 25-person tournament. We have been averaging 2—6 rebuys with our 17 players.

Expansion scenario — 30 starting stacks (8/8/4/7/x) with 10 rebuys (4 x T5000)

• T25s (300): 30 starting stacks x 8 chips = 240
• T100s (300): 30 starting stacks x 8 chips = 240
• T500s (130): 30 starting stacks x 4 chips = 120
• T1000s (220):

• 30 starting stacks x 7 chips = 210
• Would just have to forego any on-time bonus.
• Coloring up the T25s = 6 or 7 more chips.

• T5000 (100)

• 30 starting stacks (for the larger 20K stack games) x 2 chips = 60
• 10 rebuy stacks x 4 chips = 40
• Coloring up the T100s = 5 or 6 chips (if we ended up with the full number of rebuys, I could use a T25000 chip to color up the T100s)

• T25000 (10)

• Coloring up the T100s (if needed becasue we run out of T5000) = 1 or 2 chips
• Coloring up the T500s = 3 chips

• Bounties (40) — Even with 30 players, I probably won’t exceed 10 rebuys. And, if I do, so be it. I’ll just use one of my old ceramics if needed.

This set seems like it should cover all scenarios up to 30 players and up to 20K stacks reasonably well, though certainly a bit tight on the very high end of that. Given that we have not yet had more than 17 players, this feels like a reasonable amount of expansion to be built in. If I truly end up running three full tables every night, then hopefully I can place a small 200-chip add-on order for the five smaller denominations to smooth things out a bit.

All thoughts and criticisms welcome!

Thanks!
Chris

 

[RichMahogany]

320/320/160/320. Add 80 5000s for rebuys, 1200 total chips

8/8/4/7/ stacks for up to 40 players.

43mm ceramics for seating/bounty chips so they don’t get confused for any chips in play

Edit: missed the “no more than 3 tables” part

 

[BGinGA]

I recommend the following:

300 x T25
300 x T100
120 x T500
240 x T1000
120 x T5000
20 x T25000
--------------
1,100 tourney chips

30 x Rebuy
30 x Bounty
30 x Seating
10 x extras (one of each chip above)
---‐-----------
100 misc chips

1200 chips total = two 600-chip carriers

Notes:
- all tourney chips rounded to even barrels
- sufficient T1000s to cover all scenarios
- sufficient T5000s to cover all scenarios
- sufficient T25Ks to color-up T1000s when needed for larger events
- extra chips to cover loss/damage/theft
- separate Bounty/Seating chips allow seat redraws when combining tables
- sufficient T500s for 24 players (can use extra T1000s for 25th player if/when needed)
-- only 30 Bounty chips needed if given up only upon event elimination

Use distinctive colors and/or patterns for the no-denom Rebuy, Bounty, and Seating chips (solids, 1/2-pies, 1/4-pies, etc.) with unique inlays or stamp designs, making them clearly different than your denomination chips.

Ceramics are typically the easiest/cheapest option for Seating chips (since they are 30 individual and unique chips). But you can order CPCs with a logo inlay one one side, with the opposite side having fill-in-the-blank inlays (Table __ Seat ___ ). Fill in each chip with a fine-point Sharpie. Or you can use your existing Table/Seating chips.

1100+ CPC chips ordered allows for enough denominations (6) and other specialty chips (2 or 3).

 

[CSW]

Thank you both for the very helpful thoughts. I think I am inclined to go with something close to what @BGinGA suggested.

I had to look up the purpose of a rebuy chip and, as much as I like the “MOAR chips“ idea, I don’t think I have a solid use case for a Rebuy chip. I use a tournament management software that will alert me if I try to give someone two rebuys, so no need for it for tracking purposes. I am intrigued by the concept of “pre-buy” or “reload” tournaments; may consider those in the future, but for now people seem happy with the standard rebuy structure.

So, I’d really just be doing a Rebuy chips simply to have another custom chip, which I am definitely not against. But if I’m going to target an even set of 1200 chips, I want to prioritize having enough Bounty chips to allow collection of the bounty on each knockout, not just the final event elimination. I suppose I could keep the Rebuys and just sacrifice the 10 x “extra“ chips for 10 more Bounties, but now that I have seen that concept of “extras”, it seems really smart and I don’t know that I would want to sacrifice that (can’t imagine how frustrated I’d be to lose/break one chip and have an uneven barrel in my main set forever).

So, here is what I plan to do unless I see any other tips that I want to incorporate.

300 x T25
300 x T100
120 x T500
240 x T1000
120 x T5000
20 x T25000
--------------
1,100 tourney chips

45 x Bounty
30 x Seating (existing ceramics)
25 x extras (4 extra of each denomination, except for the T500, which gets 5 extra to allow for that 25th player)
---‐-----------
100 misc chips

This is almost certainly more bounties than I need and an excessive number of extras. But unless I think of another use for the remaining barrel (after eliminating the re-buys and adding 10 more bounties), this seems as good a use as any to fill up that last rack.

Again, thanks for the ideas! I think I’ll be significantly happier (albeit slightly poorer) with this setup than my original idea.

Chris

 

[philhut]

Thank you both for the very helpful thoughts. I think I am inclined to go with something close to what @BGinGA suggested.

I had to look up the purpose of a rebuy chip and, as much as I like the “MOAR chips“ idea, I don’t think I have a solid use case for a Rebuy chip. I use a tournament management software that will alert me if I try to give someone two rebuys, so no need for it for tracking purposes. I am intrigued by the concept of “pre-buy” or “reload” tournaments; may consider those in the future, but for now people seem happy with the standard rebuy structure.

So, I’d really just be doing a Rebuy chips simply to have another custom chip, which I am definitely not against. But if I’m going to target an even set of 1200 chips, I want to prioritize having enough Bounty chips to allow collection of the bounty on each knockout, not just the final event elimination. I suppose I could keep the Rebuys and just sacrifice the 10 x “extra“ chips for 10 more Bounties, but now that I have seen that concept of “extras”, it seems really smart and I don’t know that I would want to sacrifice that (can’t imagine how frustrated I’d be to lose/break one chip and have an uneven barrel in my main set forever).

So, here is what I plan to do unless I see any other tips that I want to incorporate.

300 x T25
300 x T100
120 x T500
240 x T1000
120 x T5000
20 x T25000
--------------
1,100 tourney chips

45 x Bounty
30 x Seating (existing ceramics)
25 x extras (4 extra of each denomination, except for the T500, which gets 5 extra to allow for that 25th player)
---‐-----------
100 misc chips

This is almost certainly more bounties than I need and an excessive number of extras. But unless I think of another use for the remaining barrel (after eliminating the re-buys and adding 10 more bounties), this seems as good a use as any to fill up that last rack.

Again, thanks for the ideas! I think I’ll be significantly happier (albeit slightly poorer) with this setup than my original idea.

Chris

My only thought on your counts Chris is to ask how many players you can accommodate in your home (25?) And how many fit on each table(#tables). I have always factored between 8 to 10 players to table for space with an average of 9. Also I think its important to have an ideal # but expansive option built into a tourney set. Thus for me as an example I enjoy 12/12/3/2-5k freezout or 3-5k rebuy games as a favorite...(sometimes bigger freeze-outs happen but shorter tourneys allow for cash games after on the same night. I could cover 1 table with 120-t25 chips for a 10 player example but with 160 I could theoretically expand to 2 tables with 8/8/4/2-5k starting stacks for 20 players. Thus if you are planning t25 based games you may want to buy t25 and t100 chips in multiples of 8x expected potential players.
I would recomend on this basis that you would want 320xt25 and t100 chips to allow for 4x tables of 8/8/?/? Or 240xt25 and t100 to allow for up to 3x tables.....if you order 300 t25 chips specifically you may find that you have nearly 60 chips that are tough to play and could be invested into other denominations.

Add all potential base starting stacks/per table you may want....then add add on'sx1 using your 2nd or/and 3rd highest denom chips (of even top value chip if starting stack is big enough to make change). Next add-1-2 rebuys per potential player using the 2nds and 3rd highest denoms again, preserving your top denom for late rebuys and/or colour ups. Account for covering all chips you intend to colour up from the table as well such as t25t100 and for some t500. Thus you will need enough chip bank in your t1000,t5000 and t25000 chips to cover all of your tournament chip value dispensed (suggest this be in t1000t5000 value over 25k for function and change making).

If your breakdown makes sense with some of those function ideas for your #players,space and table accomodation then great go for it!

 

[Bacon Dad]

Use distinctive colors and/or patterns for the no-denom Rebuy, Bounty, and Seating chips (solids, 1/2-pies, 1/4-pies, etc.) with unique inlays or stamp designs, making them clearly different than your denomination chips.

I understand about the bounty chips being different and distinct. But why would you recommend the Rebuys and Seating chips different from the original stacks?

And is the Seating Chip just the bonus for having ass-in-seat at the start of the game? If so, would you do that after a break too? Sometimes we have stragglers. Do you have any pics you could share of your different extras chips?

Thanks so much.

 

[BGinGA]

I understand about the bounty chips being different and distinct. But why would you recommend the Rebuys and Seating chips different from the original stacks?

And is the Seating Chip just the bonus for having ass-in-seat at the start of the game? If so, would you do that after a break too? Sometimes we have stragglers. Do you have any pics you could share of your different extras chips?

Thanks so much.

Seating chips are usually used just to assign tournament seats and do not remain on the table (although some are also bounty chips or re-buy chips on the opposite side, and stay in play) -- but either way, they should be distinctive so that they aren't mistaken for denomination chips (causing dirty stacks or being miscounted from across the table).

Most of my specialty chips are oversized (43mm, 46mm, 47mm, etc.). Any 39mm specialty chips are always a color (and/or pattern) not being used for the denom chips in play.

 

[upNdown]

Giving deference to @BGinGA - if he says you have sufficient quantities, I’m not here to argue with him. But here I go anyway.
I don’t think you have enough 1Ks.
I’m not sure why you’d start with 12 each of the chips that will eventually be colored off the table, but only 6 of the 1k chips which will carry you to the end of the tournament.

I guess I only have experience hosting single table tournaments, so maybe that’s the answer - maybe the starting stack 1k amounts are sufficiently supplemented by rebuys and by the stacks of people who get knocked out?

 

[BGinGA]

Giving deference to @BGinGA - if he says you have sufficient quantities, I’m not here to argue with him. But here I go anyway.
I don’t think you have enough 1Ks.
I’m not sure why you’d start with 12 each of the chips that will eventually be colored off the table, but only 6 of the 1k chips which will carry you to the end of the tournament.

I guess I only have experience hosting single table tournaments, so maybe that’s the answer - maybe the starting stack 1k amounts are sufficiently supplemented by rebuys and by the stacks of people who get knocked out?

That (rebuys and knockout consolidations) plus color-ups of the lower denoms put more T1000s in play when they are needed.

Also why most of my set recommendations are 2x/2x/1x/2x/1x (vs 2x/2x/1x/1x/.5x) -- gonna need those extra 1000s in play eventually, and more T5000s adds a lot of set flexibility.

 

[CSW]

My only thought on your counts Chris is to ask how many players you can accommodate in your home (25?) And how many fit on each table(#tables). I have always factored between 8 to 10 players to table for space with an average of 9. Also I think its important to have an ideal # but expansive option built into a tourney set. Thus for me as an example I enjoy 12/12/3/2-5k freezout or 3-5k rebuy games as a favorite...(sometimes bigger freeze-outs happen but shorter tourneys allow for cash games after on the same night. I could cover 1 table with 120-t25 chips for a 10 player example but with 160 I could theoretically expand to 2 tables with 8/8/4/2-5k starting stacks for 20 players. Thus if you are planning t25 based games you may want to buy t25 and t100 chips in multiples of 8x expected potential players.
I would recomend on this basis that you would want 320xt25 and t100 chips to allow for 4x tables of 8/8/?/? Or 240xt25 and t100 to allow for up to 3x tables.....if you order 300 t25 chips specifically you may find that you have nearly 60 chips that are tough to play and could be invested into other denominations.

Add all potential base starting stacks/per table you may want....then add add on'sx1 using your 2nd or/and 3rd highest denom chips (of even top value chip if starting stack is big enough to make change). Next add-1-2 rebuys per potential player using the 2nds and 3rd highest denoms again, preserving your top denom for late rebuys and/or colour ups. Account for covering all chips you intend to colour up from the table as well such as t25t100 and for some t500. Thus you will need enough chip bank in your t1000,t5000 and t25000 chips to cover all of your tournament chip value dispensed (suggest this be in t1000t5000 value over 25k for function and change making).

If your breakdown makes sense with some of those function ideas for your #players,space and table accomodation then great go for it!

Thanks, @philhut. I currently have 3 table toppers—two 10-max ovals and an 8-max octagon. I typically like playing 8-handed max, so I’m designing the set for 24/25 players, but technically have space for 28. I will be getting one custom folding table in the near future, so may host as many as 30-32 on 4 tables, but that would require almost everyone on my current invite list to attend a game at the same time, which doesn’t happen. I typically end up with 15-20 people on any given night from a list of about 32.

I agree with your idea of making the set expandable. This set should be ideal for 24/25 players (12/12/5/6/x stacks), expandable up to 30-ish (8/8/4/7/x stacks).