Rules question (1 Viewer)

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Quick question regarding the rules on betting out of turn that came up in a tournament at a card room last night.

We were in the later rounds. Blinds were 4K - 8K. I was in late position, I think on the button. Pre flop there was a raise to 16K. I missed that the guy to my right was still thinking and put in calling chips. Dealer says "pull it back, it's not your turn." So I pulled back. Player with the action raised to 32K, and I asked for a ruling as I now wanted to fold. Dealer calls someone over who rules that I can keep my chips and fold. Guy who raised is pissed and says my chips should go back into the pot. Who was right?

FYI, I had a suited 8-9, the flop would have given me an open ender, and the river hit for the straight, which would have won the pot. Instead, raiser to my right won with trips, so I told him be glad they ruled against you. LOL.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

You and the floor are fine. Your action would stand if the action hadn't changed. The raise means your action wasn't binding, you're golden.

 

[krafticus]

If he folds, your action is binding. Once he acts, the ruling is correct that you can pull your chips back

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

If he folds, your action is binding. Once he acts, the ruling is correct that you can pull your chips back

I assume it would also be binding if he had just called too.

 

[TheOffalo]

You're good. From https://www.pokertda.com/view-poker-tda-rules/

53: Action Out of Turn (OOT)

A: Any action out of turn (check, call, or raise) will be backed up to the correct player in order. The OOT action is subject to penalty and is binding if action to the OOT player does not change. A check, call or fold by the correct player does not change action. If action changes, the OOT action is not binding; any bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who has all options: call, raise, or fold. An OOT fold is binding. See Illustration Addendum.

B: Players skipped by OOT action must defend their right to act. If a skipped player had reasonable time and does not speak up before substantial action (Rule 36) OOT occurs after the player, the OOT action is binding. Action backs up and the floor will rule on how to treat the skipped hand given the circumstances, including ruling the hand dead or limiting the player to non-aggressive action. See Addendum.

Action changed, so your action is not binding.

 

[krafticus]

I assume it would also be binding if he had just called too.

Correct. Call/Check/Fold actually ... since that doesn't change the action.

 

[Kimurasays]

The floor’s ruling is correct.

 

[joeyshin]

Action changed so your action can change

 

[Jimulacrum]

As others have said, since the action changed, you have the option to reconsider entirely, with no obligation to leave any chips in the pot.

I've heard of this premise that you should have to leave your out-of-turn call in the pot or otherwise have your action restricted. I don't buy it; it's an unfair, "gotcha" kind of rule that I have never seen in a legitimate rule set. It's like something the host might cook up in a sketchy game where they pull angles to trick people into acting out of turn.

 

[Taghkanic]

I had a casino hand which went like this:

Preflop: OMC in middle position ***and wearing a priest’s collar*** raises. I reraise on the button, he calls.

Flop (pretty good for me): Priest checks.

I start slowly reaching for chips. Before my hand even touches my stack, the priest yells “ALL IN!”

I look at him in amazement. “Uhh, didn’t you just check?”

Priest: “But you put chips in!”

Me: “No, I reached to think about a bet. I haven’t even moved a chip yet.”

Long debate, I finally call the floor.

What happens, I ask, if I check? It goes straight to the turn? Or is his all-in binding?

Floor rules it would just proceed to the turn, with his heavenly all-in not binding.

I ask, “Doesn’t that invite angling, where someone can yell a bet out of turn to freeze or confuse the action?” Floor says nah.

Me: “And if I bet less than all-in now, he has all options back open?”

Floor says yes, the all-in would be wiped clean.

Note: I checked, he went all-in blind before the turn, I folded. I don’t actually think the priest was angling. He probably had AA or flopped a set and got excited.