Cash Game River exposed ruling? (1 Viewer)

[Steve Birrer]

So last night the following accident happened. Nobody was sure what the real ruling should be so we decided to just let the two still involved chop the pot. So here's what happened.

Turn card was put out and Player A bet. Player B was thinking (and in fact reaching for his chips at the time) when the dealer turned over the river card thinking that Player B had already acted. The river card was a 10 which actually gave Player B the nuts. So what is the official rule here?

Is the card still played? Is that card burned and a new river used? One player actually suggested putting the 10 back in the deck and shuffling the remaining cards then drawing a new river eek.

 

[Beakertwang]

Putting the exposed river card back in the stub and reshuffling is the proper way of handling it. Off the top of my head, I can't remember if another card should be burned or not. Someone else will know, for sure.

 

[WedgeRock]

Shuffle it back in to the stub, no new burn.

Can't let it stand because then Player B has information that Player A didn't have. But it has an equal chance as any other card in the stub of being the new river.

The point of burning is not to pre-expise the back of the next card and limit an advantage of a marked deck. No need to employ that precaution here. Just run the river.

In these situations, I think it's best to explain the rule and get acknowledgements from all live players, then do what needs to be done. Less hurt feelings when a player would have won but ends up losing.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Ok but what is the actual rule?

 

[Beakertwang]

Ok but what is the actual rule?

What @WedgeRock said is the actual rule. Are you looking for RRoP section, paragraph, and line?

 

[WedgeRock]

Ok but what is the actual rule?

Shuffle it back in to the stub, no new burn.

Do you not believe me? Google it. The answer is out there. I'll wait.

 

[Steve Birrer]

I am not saying I don't believe anybody. I just wanted to somebody to say its the actual RRoP rule. Thanks all.

 

[BGinGA]

You need to have a printed copy of RROP at your game. Useful for situations like this (where you don't know the rule), and as backup/proof for those rules that you do know.

http://www.gottatalkpoker.com/rrp/rrpprinter.html

http://www.gottatalkpoker.com/rrp/RobertsRules.pdf

 

[Steve Birrer]

Wasn't my game last night anyway but good suggestion. In the case last night I think that chopping the pot was the better answer. I was really wanting to know for future reference. The problem last night was with the discussion on what to do too much information had been revealed about the hand such that both players pretty well knew that a 10 was the key river card. Next time we'll know and immediately reshuffle and deal another river.

 

[WedgeRock]

Wow. "I don't know the correct rule. Please go find it for me."

My father taught me that you learn and retain a lesson when you seek out the answer yourself.

The explanation was to help you understand why the rule is written the way it is... The next time you don't know a rule, hopefully it helps you consider the rights things and arrive at the right ruling.

 

[BGinGA]

what is the actual rule?

SECTION 5 - HOLDEM

RULES
5. If the dealer burns and turns before a betting round is complete, the card(s) may not be used, even if all subsequent players elect to fold. Nobody has an option of accepting or rejecting the card. The betting is then completed, and the error rectified in the prescribed manner for that situation.

8. A dealing error for the fourth boardcard is rectified in a manner to least influence the identity of the boardcards that would have been used without the error. The dealer burns and deals what would have been the fifth card in the fourth card’s place. After this round of betting, the dealer reshuffles the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not including the burncards or discards. The dealer then cuts the deck and deals the final card without burning a card. If the fifth card is turned up prematurely, the deck is reshuffled and dealt in the same manner.

 

[BGinGA]

One player actually suggested putting the 10 back in the deck and shuffling the remaining cards then drawing a new river

And that player was correct. Shuffle, cut, no burn, deal river.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Perfect. Thanks BG!!

 

[Steve Birrer]

Wow. "I don't know the correct rule. Please go find it for me."

My father taught me that you learn and retain a lesson when you seek out the answer yourself.

The explanation was to help you understand why the rule is written the way it is... The next time you don't know a rule, hopefully it helps you consider the rights things and arrive at the right ruling.

I get your point but I was pretty certain somebody on here would know exactly where to point me so I didn't have to read through 58 pages to find it. You sir are a bit condescending.

 

[WedgeRock]

FFS.

It's not an unusual rule, or one up to interpretation. It's pretty straight forward. You could've found it on your own with a little effort.

You asked for the rule, you got it, and then wanted someone to find the language of the rule for you.

Maybe I'm a little grumpy this morning. Maybe I just assumed you were at least 12 years old.

 

[Steve Birrer]

FFS.

It's not an unusual rule, or one up to interpretation. It's pretty straight forward. You could've found it on your own with a little effort.

You asked for the rule, you got it, and then wanted someone to find the language of the rule for you.

Maybe I'm a little grumpy this morning. Maybe I just assumed you were at least 12 years old.

Right on both accounts and thats about as condescending as it gets. Please put me on ignore.

 

[Burke]

Yo Wedge I’m all for people looking up info on their own. It drives me nuts when the same question or thread is posted on this site.

But....you need a Snickers man. I’m guessing you’re just hungry this AM!

 

[Gobbs]

FFS.

It's not an unusual rule, or one up to interpretation. It's pretty straight forward. You could've found it on your own with a little effort.

You asked for the rule, you got it, and then wanted someone to find the language of the rule for you.

Maybe I'm a little grumpy this morning. Maybe I just assumed you were at least 12 years old.

I have to say, you’ve hit on one of my pet peeves, Wedge. One of my common responses to questions like that at work is “Read the manual.” Not only will you easily find the answer if you read the manual, you’ll remember the answer better and be more familiar with the manual the next time you have an easy question to research and you’ll find it even faster.

Maybe you need a Snickers, man, but that doesn’t mean you’re wrong.

EDIT: P.S. Crap, now I’m hungry for a Snickers.

 

[DoubleEagle]

From TDA recommended procedures:

RP-5. Prematurely Dealt Cards

Board and burn cards are sometimes dealt prematurely by mistake, before action on the preceding round is finished. The following are general procedures for dealing with these situations:

A: For a premature flop, the flop burn card is left in place as the burn. The premature flop board cards are returned to the deck stub and reshuffled. The flop is then re-dealt (without another burn card) from the newly shuffled stub.

B: A premature turn card is put to the side. Another card is burned, and the normal river card is used as the new turn card. After action on the turn, the premature turn card is placed back in the stub, the stub is reshuffled and a river card is dealt without an additional burn.

C: A premature river card is placed back into the remaining stub, and the premature river burn card is left in place as the river burn. Once action on the turn is completed, the stub is reshuffled and the river is dealt without a new burn card.

 

[WedgeRock]

Last I'm gonna say in it: I don't mind the question.

I gave the answer. I went back and editted it to give more detail as the WHY the answer was right. And the response was, "what's the actual rule, tho. I don't want to read through 58 pages."

I interpret that to mean, "you read through 58 pages instead and tell me the answer."

I don't mind helping, but you gotta be willing to help yourself.

 

[Meddler2]

Even so, no need to be a dick.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I usually think Wedge is a dick, but if you "@" him, you will get him.

Besides, the dick is usually the favorite part of a man's anatomy, so that's a good thing, right? Nobody plays with their elbow.

In other news, you don't have to read 58 pages. Get the PDF and use the search function. Makes rule look-ups so easy, I wish I was a kid in high-school again. I might have actually done real research on my term papers!

 

[Gobbs]

Nobody plays with their elbow.

 

[MegaTon44]

I think you're all dicks.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Wedge we clearly didn't communicate on the same plane. I was in no way asking for someone else to read through 58 pages and find me the answer. I am more than capable of doing that. What I was hoping is that someone was already familiar with the rule and could point it out to me very quickly.

 

[bigdonkey]

I’ve never met @WedgeRock but now i’m curious... which angry celebrity should be used in his Snickers commercial?

 

[Eloe2000]

I’ve never met @WedgeRock but now i’m curious... which angry celebrity should be used in his Snickers commercial?

John Malkovich?

 

[BGinGA]

Meh, my two cents:

One guy was lazy, the other one was harsh. It happens, but in the end, we're all loving and forgiving scrub donkey brothers with a common bond and goals.

Except @pltrgyst, who carries a grudge, a big stick, and a long ignore list.

At least nobody was YELLING.

/thread

 

[pltrgyst]

1. "Why's everybody always pickin' on me?" -- Charlie Brown, the Coasters, 1959.

2. A popsicle stick -- preferably a Dove dark chocolate and raspberry sorbet bar.

3. "long" = 4 ? {edit: oops! 3}

 

[skylines]

At least nobody was YELLING.

@Mike mac care to weigh in?