Tourney Rebuys in bounty tourneys? (1 Viewer)

[timinater]

I agree that there probably isn't a right or wrong way to deal with bounties. I'd do whatever is simpler and easier for you to manage and communicate on they day of the tournament, with a preference for whatever is also more fun.

FWIW in our league we don't play with bounties on rebuy night, but we do have bounties that are on previous event winners that can be claimed on the rebuy night. To claim that bounty the player must be totally eliminated. If they elect to rebuy they retain their bounty and they continues as normal with the new chips from the rebuy.

In our standard bounty tournament format, the bounty is part of the buy-in, so a new bounty chip comes with any re-entry. Same with previous winners in that scenario. They have been eliminated and must surrender the bounty. They can re-enter but that is a separate tournament entry.

 

[markleteenie]

FWIW in our league we don't play with bounties on rebuy night, but we do have bounties that are on previous event winners that can be claimed on the rebuy night. To claim that bounty the player must be totally eliminated. If they elect to rebuy they retain their bounty and they continues as normal with the new chips from the rebuy.

In our standard bounty tournament format, the bounty is part of the buy-in, so a new bounty chip comes with any re-entry. Same with previous winners in that scenario. They have been eliminated and must surrender the bounty. They can re-enter but that is a separate tournament entry.

That's cool that bounties play differently in different game formats.

The second way is generally how I implement bounties in the games I host.

 

[Beaniman]

FWIW in our league we don't play with bounties on rebuy night, but we do have bounties that are on previous event winners that can be claimed on the rebuy night.

Wow I really like this idea. Does it come out of the winnings from the previous event, which is what I'd assume, or is it part of the buyin on rebuy night?

 

[justsomedude]

I think there is simply a problem with semantics for the word 'bounty', whereas it can mean 'busted' or 'eliminated' and each host can pick their poison on how they want to run it for better or worse. Your players will probably let you know if they dont like it.

Agree, and I think this is where my issue has been trying to hash all this out. I think players like the idea of a "stack bounty" and "rebuys" in the same game - which in reality is kind of silly. In those formats it just needs to be understood that a "stack bounty" is technically very different from a "player elimination bounty" (which is how I always viewed them).

FWIW in our league we don't play with bounties on rebuy night, but we do have bounties that are on previous event winners that can be claimed on the rebuy night. To claim that bounty the player must be totally eliminated. If they elect to rebuy they retain their bounty and they continues as normal with the new chips from the rebuy.

Yes, I am learning that rebuys and bounties don't really make sense together. To quote @nitzilla, "that's why the WSOP don't offer rebuy tourneys."

 

[CdnBeerLover]

In our case, we did it originally when the bounty was on the player, and it led to some consternation when a player originally indicated they would not rebuy during the hand then chose to rebuy when they lost. The winning player expected to collect that bounty, but didn't.

Having the bounty on the buy-in (which is how I word it) eliminates that issue. If the chips all go in, so does the bounty chip.

 

[Frogzilla]

I don’t like the idea that I, after being stacked, can decide whether or not someone won my bounty (by deciding to rebuy). Therefore, I’m firmly in the bounty in every stack (including rebuys) camp.

 

[timinater]

Wow I really like this idea. Does it come out of the winnings from the previous event, which is what I'd assume, or is it part of the buyin on rebuy night?

We deduct $30 from the total pot each game to fund our side payouts in all of our tournaments.

• $10 donkey rebate for last place
• $10 7-2 prize
• $10 Bounty on previous winner(s)

 

[justsomedude]

I don’t like the idea that I, after being stacked, can decide whether or not someone won my bounty (by deciding to rebuy). Therefore, I’m firmly in the bounty in every stack (including rebuys) camp.

I see both sides. Personally, I don't think a chip-stack bounty makes any sense with rebuys from a rules perspective.

And now having gone through this exercise I don't think I'd ever offer Bounties again in a rebuy format. For my mental health, it would need to be a proper re-entry structure for it to make sense.

I'll keep my Bounty for this year's event and deal with those folks who are frustrated when they don't get one when they felt another player early on. Moving forward, I would definitely switch to a re-entry format if I were using Bounties.

It's nice to hear all the different approaches on this stuff.

 

[Beaniman]

Agree, and I think this is where my issue has been trying to hash all this out. I think players like the idea of a "stack bounty" and "rebuys" in the same game - which in reality is kind of silly. In those formats it just needs to be understood that a "stack bounty" is technically very different from a "player elimination bounty" (which is how I always viewed them).



Yes, I am learning that rebuys and bounties don't really make sense together. To quote @nitzilla, "that's why the WSOP don't offer rebuy tourneys."

I think the reason wsop doesn't is purely logistics of the number of entries.

 

[Beaniman]

Having the bounty on the buy-in (which is how I word it) eliminates that issue. If the chips all go in, so does the bounty chip.

Exactly this for me. Didn't think to mention it before but people toss their bounty chip in to signal "all in" alot of times in our games.

 

[justsomedude]

I think the reason wsop doesn't is purely logistics of the number of entries.

WSOP has re-entry events. Just no rebuy events.

There is a difference. Which I think is being overlooked by some.

 

[Irish]

I don’t like the idea that I, after being stacked, can decide whether or not someone won my bounty (by deciding to rebuy). Therefore, I’m firmly in the bounty in every stack (including rebuys) camp.

^^^This^^^ is the biggest problem with only paying out a bounty for "final" elimination. Whether or not a player's bounty money is on the line 100% figures into the determination of whether their opponent is calling or not. If you play where you only collect bounties for final elimination, IMHO I'd require that player to make the decision as they're going all-in. So an all-in without throwing their bounty chip would indicate they're rebuying if knocked out.

I personally really don't like that approach, but as long as the distinction is clear up front, play how you like. I take the view that the bounty is not on the player, but the chip stack. You knock out a chip stack, you collect a bounty. YMMV.

 

[Beaniman]

WSOP has re-entry events. Just no rebuy events.

There is a difference. Which I think is being overlooked by some.

I mean the logistics of handling bounty payouts in the thousands or tens of thousands. That's a lot of cashiers.

 

[upNdown]

I understand, but there is a difference between reBuy vs. reEntry. In a reBuy tournament a player technically isn't "eliminated" until they forgo all of their reBuy options, or are felted after the Freezout period has begun.

I didn't make the rules.

Don't kill the messenger.

But you did make the rules. You're the one setting it up as a bounty/rebuy, which creates this annoying paradox. The solution is so simple it's painful - make it a bounty re-entry.

 

[upNdown]

But you did make the rules. You're the one setting it up as a bounty/rebuy, which creates this annoying paradox. The solution is so simple it's painful - make it a bounty re-entry.

I see I was about 10 minutes too late

 

[justsomedude]

But you did make the rules. You're the one setting it up as a bounty/rebuy, which creates this annoying paradox. The solution is so simple it's painful - make it a bounty re-entry.

I see I was about 10 minutes too late

You are my hero. I want to give you a hug!! Why is there no <3 emoji here???

make it a bounty re-entry.

For sure. Moving forward this will be my approach!!!!!

 

[upNdown]

I'll keep my Bounty for this year's event and deal with those folks who are frustrated when they don't get one when they felt another player early on. Moving forward, I would definitely switch to a re-entry format if I were using Bounties.

Also, I think you're just being stubborn. Just switch it from a rebuy to a re-entry. Most people don't know the difference anyway.

 

[Beaniman]

I see both sides. Personally, I don't think a chip-stack bounty makes any sense with rebuys from a rules perspective.

And now having gone through this exercise I don't think I'd ever offer Bounties again in a rebuy format. For my mental health, it would need to be a proper re-entry structure for it to make sense.

I'll keep my Bounty for this year's event and deal with those folks who are frustrated when they don't get one when they felt another player early on. Moving forward, I would definitely switch to a re-entry format if I were using Bounties.

It's nice to hear all the different approaches on this stuff.

I'm a noob on the difference between rebuy / reentry formats, I guess I dont understand the difference. My tournaments are probably small by comparison. If you lose all your chips you re-buy/re-enter/re-up/re-load. It's all the same in my mind. I probably need educated.

Let's all be honest, words are hard. Ironically the best 2 pieces professional advice I ever got in a 20 year military career were:

1) where you stand mostly depends on where you sit.
2)words are important

Both seem to apply here

 

[justsomedude]

Also, I think you're just being stubborn. Just switch it from a rebuy to a re-entry. Most people don't know the difference anyway.

I asked my brother that this morning, "am I just being stubborn with this shit?"
His response, "I don't know - do you like following the rules?"
Now you know this isn't just me, this shit runs in the family.

I can definitely switch to a re-entry format. Just don't want any BS pushback when people need to re-seat.

 

[Beaniman]

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[justsomedude]

... View attachment 414966

That's legit me when I host. Ask any of the CO guys. They know my stress level is ratcheted up to 11.

 

[Beaniman]

That's legit me when I host. Ask any of the CO guys. They know my stress level is ratcheted up to 11.

I feel your pain, it seems like I have to explain minimum raise sizing every week. "No it's not always double the total, its double the raise" and so on. It boggles my mind people will put hundreds of dollars on the line for a game with WELL established rules and never be bothered to learn them. That pic is on my wall by a coppy of Robert's rules where we play.

 

[nitzilla]

To quote @nitzilla, "that's why the WSOP don't offer rebuy tourneys."

you misquoted me....

It’s “that’s why the WSOP don’t offer rebuy Bounty tourneys”
Big difference.

 

[justsomedude]

you misquoted me....

It’s “that’s why the WSOP don’t offer rebuy Bounty tourneys”
Big difference.

Oooo right right. My bad. Quoting from text. And I haven't had my coffee yet.

 

[Marhault]

Our bounty tournaments with rebuys the bounty is figured into the buy in and rebuy. So if its $40 buy and $5 of that is the bounty, and $40 rebuy $5 of that is bounty. So you get a new bounty chip with each rebuy and you can only lose your original bounty chip so any you've stacked up are worth $5 each. Like Monday we had a guy that cashed out in 3rd but he had 15 bounties so he made out pretty good.

 

[justsomedude]

Our bounty tournaments with rebuys the bounty is figured into the buy in and rebuy. So if its $40 buy and $5 of that is the bounty, and $40 rebuy $5 of that is bounty. So you get a new bounty chip with each rebuy and you can only lose your original bounty chip so any you've stacked up are worth $5 each. Like Monday we had a guy that cashed out in 3rd but he had 15 bounties so he made out pretty good.

Call it a rebuy.... one. more. time.

 

[Marhault]

Call it a rebuy.... one. more. time.

Rebuy?

 

[justsomedude]

Rebuy?

 

[markleteenie]

 

[BGinGA]

Lol, lots-o-words about words.

Another monkey-wrench in the works is when stack surrenders are allowed in lieu of a no-chips re-buy. This is a case of a player buying a new stack but retaining their initial bounty chip, so why should they lose it if they rebuy with zero chips?

For @Beaniman, these are commomly-used tournament definitions:

• Re-buy -- if felted, player may immediately purchase chips (often equal to the starting stack, but not always) with player retaining seating position. Often limited to one or two per player or limited to a specific length of time, but may be implemented with zero restictions (unlimited number per player, or for entire duration of event).
• Re-entry -- player may re-enter event after elimination (pays all fees, receives all the things, and is treated as a new player regarding seating). Usually only available during a specified time window.
• Re-load -- player pays full amount up front, but only gets 1/2 stack to start. If felted, player automatically reloads with the second half-stack. Usually automatically added at a preset time if not used by then.
• Add-on -- player can add a predetermined amount of chips onto their stack. Lots of ways this can be structured, with the most common being: a) prior to event start, b) if stack size falls below a pre-defined size, c) at a specific point in time later in the event, or d) some combination of the above. Add-on size can range from a small amount (10bb, for example), equal to a half-stack, or up to a size equal to the starting stack.

In our bounty/re-buy events, players are issued both REBUY chips and BOUNTY chips. To denote an all-in, they toss in their REBUY chip (not their BOUNTY chip), making it clear that their bounty is not at risk. Their BOUNTY chip is only included in the pot if they are at risk of being totally eliminated.