Tourney Re Buy Time Limit. Why? (1 Viewer)

[Marshall18]

Can someone explain why people put a time limit on re buys? Is this to keep the rebuy competitive with the other stacks at the table early on or to keep people from sitting out and rebuying late into a tournament?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Beakertwang]

I’m not as concerned about time as I am about big blinds in the starting stacks. Personally, I don’t want people buying in for less than 50BB.

Let’s say you start with 200BB, 10k stacks, 25/50 opening blinds. On level 6 in my example, blinds will be 200/400, so you have players buying in for just 25BB. After another level, 10K would be just 16BB, which just increases the shove fest aspect of the game. It’s fine if you don’t mind that kind of a game in the middle levels.

 

[Marshall18]

So to your point your just trying to avoid someone buying back in and then essentially being force to wait and go all in to get a competitive chip count

 

[TexRex]

Unlimited re-buys create weird situations. For example, one night I hadn't rebought, they are paying 3, and 4 are in. I got riverred and KO'd. A re-buy was 10BB. If I rebought, I would be in dealer position. Chip leader in SB, BB had about 10 BB, but would have to pay the SB next hand too, so he'd be down to 7BB before I had to pay. UTG had about 8 BB, and would have to pay 2BB before me, and 1BB when I had to pay a BB.

I wouldn't normally consider rebuying in that situation, but basically I was assured of finishing in the money, and coming out ahead. I re-bought. I finished 2nd -- one of the others was out before I paid a SB, and the other had less than 1/2 my stack.

I benefitted from those rules, but pointed out how absurd it was that I could do that. I could also have pointed out how absurd it was that the other 2 had rebought, one that round, when they were getting 15BB or 10BB. If I weren't playing behind both the low stacks and both of them didn't have to pay a BB before rebuying, my math wasn't nearly as favorable.

Most re-buys I've seen require a player to decide immediately whether they will rebuy.

When we do re-buys, they end 2 hours into a 4-hour game, or 2:20 into a 6-hour game.

 

[Steve Birrer]

I used unlimited rebuys for the first 6 level (two hours). In the blind structure I use even during level 6 if they bust out they rebuy and get 33bb. This allows people to rebuy for a still ok stack without turning it into an all in fest. Should note that our "rebuys" are a modified version in that you don't have to bust out to rebuy. We allow a rebuy if you get below 1K chips (10K starting stack). This has worked well for my group.

One of the guys that plays in my game hosts once in awhile. He allows unlimited rebuys until you get in the money. He pays top three so when you get down to four players, the next guy to bust out is done.

 

[Mr Winberg]

One of the guys that plays in my game hosts once in awhile. He allows unlimited rebuys until you get in the money. He pays top three so when you get down to four players, the next guy to bust out is done.

So what if everyone always rebuys?

Can someone explain why people put a time limit on re buys?

In theory everyone could keep rebuying forever otherwise. In practice everyone has a limit for the nr of rebuys they are prepared to pay and the nr of big blinds they need to get to make it worth it for them, but there's always that one guy who's drunk and stubborn and would keep rebuying for a few big blinds and going all in the next hand, thereby disrupting play.

My personal take on it is that when I allow rebuys, I still want a freezout stage of the tournament after everyone has had guaranteed playing time for an hour or two. Like "you've had your fun, now let's get serious". I like offering an addon so that everyone can have a healthy stack when the freezout starts. This has drawbacks of course, like diluting chip leads and requiring a more aggressive blind structure.

Is this to keep the rebuy competitive with the other stacks at the table

For me, this is one of the reasons.

or to keep people from sitting out and rebuying late into a tournament?

For rebuy tournaments you need to decide before the next hand starts. If you wait, you're out. For reentry tournaments I think you're allowed to wait. If so, this would indeed be an argument for the time limit.

 

[smsguy927]

Unlimited re-buys create weird situations. For example, one night I hadn't rebought, they are paying 3, and 4 are in. I got riverred and KO'd. A re-buy was 10BB. If I rebought, I would be in dealer position. Chip leader in SB, BB had about 10 BB, but would have to pay the SB next hand too, so he'd be down to 7BB before I had to pay. UTG had about 8 BB, and would have to pay 2BB before me, and 1BB when I had to pay a BB.

I wouldn't normally consider rebuying in that situation, but basically I was assured of finishing in the money, and coming out ahead. I re-bought. I finished 2nd -- one of the others was out before I paid a SB, and the other had less than 1/2 my stack.

I benefitted from those rules, but pointed out how absurd it was that I could do that. I could also have pointed out how absurd it was that the other 2 had rebought, one that round, when they were getting 15BB or 10BB. If I weren't playing behind both the low stacks and both of them didn't have to pay a BB before rebuying, my math wasn't nearly as favorable.

Most re-buys I've seen require a player to decide immediately whether they will rebuy.

When we do re-buys, they end 2 hours into a 4-hour game, or 2:20 into a 6-hour game.

You definitely benefitted from this. Rebuys/Reentries should NEVER be allowed on the bubble because of the ICM advantage it gives to the rebuying player.
TDA states that you must not miss a hand in a rebuy tournament. You must declare your intent to rebuy right away. Because you are supposed to stay in your seat when rebuying, this ensures that you do not miss any blinds. In my cardroom, the rebuy events are very busy and sometimes there is a waiting list.
As far as reentries and late entries, there was some discussion but no guidelines were established. Someone mentioned that late entries have an advantage, because a stack purchased after someone busts out is worth more than at the start of the tournament. Also, if you are using a Big Blind Ante, it provides another advantage to rebuys/reentries/late entries. The blinds may be 50k/100k and the rebuy is worth the smallest chip in play, 5k in this example. Under normal BBA rules, any stack size can win the 100k ante. Even if you don't use a BBA, a rebuying player has an advantage is getting more for their money in terms of ICM in most cases and therefore a time limit and/or number of rebuys limit should be implemented.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I like the rebuy to keep everyone in to get an evening's worth of fun. After 2 hours, it becomes a freezeout.

Like others mentioned, unlimited time frame allows really late rebuys, which can be a trap (a nearly unusable number of BB), or just buying your way into the money (@TexRex 's example).

I allow rebuys so late it is possible in some structures to re-enter with as little as 17 BB. It's not optimal, but it is still usable. Since it's a $20 tournament with typically over $200 for first, it is still a reasonable move.

 

[AnteAndy]

For ours, we just do rebuys within the first three blind levels, and only one rebuy per person. That way it's not a shove-fest. We do Turbo style tournaments and many of us prefer cash games, but tourneys help get bodies to the table.

 

[johnnycnote]

We do unlimited re-buys until the 6th blind level. Unlimited re-buys forever creates a shove-fest and might extend the game past the 5 - 6 hours that we normally play. Payouts would be pretty sweet though