Poker Rooms under attack in Texas (4 Viewers)

[noelsarchs]

During the past few weeks, two poker rooms north of Dallas have been shut down by police order. Both rooms from my understanding have a no rake, with all money going back to players. The only charge is a $10 hourly fee to sit at the table, whether cash games or tournaments.

The two venues are Poker Rooms of Texas and Big Texas Poker. I know people who have played at Big Texas Poker a number of times, and have heard no complaints at all about the set up. I was planning to go play at Big Texas last night when I learned that it was shut down.

Not sure if the links below will work but I thought you might want to know about this. I think whatever happens here legally will have an impact on poker rooms elsewhere.

Big Texas Poker has set up a fundraising for legal fees, and even the smallest donation of $1 or $5 will help show that there are people out there interested in the outcome of these two rooms. The potential cost of litigation is around $50,000 or higher.


https://www.facebook.com/BigTexasPo...HLS9M_Nuiz-2M2aAEibm2zgFg&fref=nf&pnref=story

https://www.facebook.com/BigTexasPo...8889801866353/358227427932590/?type=3&theater

 

[Leonard]

I saw a FB post about this. From my understanding the legal status of these cardrooms is not certain. There are several similar rooms in the Dallas and Austin areas. There is one only a few miles from me. I rarely play there as there seems to be little action, but it could be the future of poker in Texas. However, because the laws are open to interpretation (by local law enforcement), there will probably need to be a criminal case to decide the issue. That could be expensive for the lucky cardroom. I'll be watching.

L

 

[CraigT78]

CJ's card room in Dallas was actually raided, players money confiscated. Not sure if charges were brought against the owner or not.

I don't expect we'll see a resolution with either of the Plano card rooms. One has a GoFundMe page trying to raise money, and the other is just "talking". I don't imagine either has deep enough pockets to take the ride this will need for an actual legal resolution. I know I'm wearing my conspiracy hat here, but they'd also be looking at the lobbying money from the Oklahoma tribes.

As much as it pains me to say, IMHO it's going to be several years before any real headway is made on the TX poker front. Austin is next, the city hasn't made any moves but as the state sees more of these "legal" rooms open it won't be long before the state AG lays the smack down.

But I'm also watching with interest.

 

[pedrofisk]

It's like book burning. @CraigT78 I don't think that is being conspiratorial at all. In business and politics the one truth is to always follow the money.

 

[moose]

Local cops wanted to buy new Tesla cop cars, obv.

 

[Mogobu]

Is anyone actually considering Tesla cop cars?!?

 

[DrStrange]

I think of this as "it was fun while it lasted, but it is about to be over". State law is a little fuzzy on gambling, but the AG made it quite clear that the line between legal and unlawful is way closer to my home game vs the card rooms sprouting up around the state. I doubt any owner / operator is going to fight legal action to the bitter end.

The last time I was playing in San Antonio they had eleven tables with a wait list for the higher stakes tables. That made the hourly gross somewhere between $800 and $1,000. I estimate something between $50,000 and $100,000 was in play. The parking lot was a zoo. Certainly something that would attract the attention of law enforcement { and criminals for that matter, $50,000+ in cash has got to be a tempting target}.

Folks who thought this was all legal and above board were guilty of wishful thinking -=- DrStrange

 

[SixSpeedFury]

@KhoiFish82 frequents the Big Texas Poker Room. Wonder if he found out about it.

 

[Mogobu]

Clubs are legal and anyone can have one.

Poker rooms are not in the same situation.

Charging for access to a club that does nothing but run poker games is... well, it isn't fooling anyone.

 

[dkersey]

I just discovered a new room that has opened up in McKinney. Which is another suburb of Dallas, and is close to the other suburb Plano which just shut down those rooms. They just opened up a few days ago. The good news is that there competitors just got shut down, and they are not in Plano. The bad news is that they will probably be shut down pretty soon as well by the same powers that be.

 

[bankOman]

I just discovered a new room that has opened up in McKinney. Which is another suburb of Dallas, and is close to the other suburb Plano which just shut down those rooms. They just opened up a few days ago. The good news is that there competitors just got shut down, and they are not in Plano. The bad news is that they will probably be shut down pretty soon as well by the same powers that be.

Looks like that room they spent some good money on that location as well in Richardson. Wondering if the other rooms were told specifically what they were doing wrong.

 

[pedrofisk]

I know Richardson and if there was ever a suburb that will close down a poker room Richardson is it.

 

[CraigT78]

I know Richardson and if there was ever a suburb that will close down a poker room Richardson is it.

Lol, you know Richardson then

 

[bankOman]

 

[CraigT78]

Lol, mixing gaming money with business money? I'm calling bull shit. A no rake/no tip model would have no money to mix. All cash would go back out when chips are collected. This guy is only fooling himself.

 

[bankOman]

Lol, mixing gaming money with business money? I'm calling bull shit. A no rake/no tip model would have no money to mix. All cash would go back out when chips are collected. This guy is only fooling himself.

Maybe he's referring to membership / hourly money going in the same drawer as the players money? When I went to the one in Plano they took all the money at the same spot? Not sure if it makes a difference or not...

 

[CraigT78]

Maybe he's referring to membership / hourly money going in the same drawer as the players money? When I went to the one in Plano they took all the money at the same spot? Not sure if it makes a difference or not...

I can't imagine having two different cash registers is what will make the difference from being shut down or allowed to remain open. I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that poker rooms come to Texas, but just because it says legal on their website doesn't make it so. Until a court states it's legal I won't risk my money there.

 

[dkersey]

Regarding the exchange with FTN...

Those are distinctions without a difference.

2 registers and 2 rooms don't change the fact it's still a business solely for poker, ie gambling.

 

[FDLmold]

They should offer discounted seat time to anybody who sits at a table and self deals a game of Go Fish for a couple hours. "See officer, it ain't just poker!"

 

[bankOman]

They should offer discounted seat time to anybody who sits at a table and self deals a game of Go Fish for a couple hours. "See officer, it ain't just poker!"

They do have Chess and monopoly going on in there. So if you have other activities other than poker going on it makes it okay? Curious if the club had tables and players just played for their own cash and no exchange of chips through the club of that would be considered illegal? Like going to a bar and betting 20$ on a game of pool?

 

[KhoiFish82]

@KhoiFish82 frequents the Big Texas Poker Room. Wonder if he found out about it.

It all started Sept 8th when CJs a poker room (https://www.facebook.com/CJsCardClubTX/) in Dallas with a similar business model was raided. Shortly after, Poker rooms of Texas (https://www.facebook.com/pokerroomsoftexas/) in Plano received a letter from the City of Plano (a northern Dallas suburb) questioning the legality of their business model. Poker rooms of Texas then decided to shuts its doors in the mean time hoping for a resolution with dialogue between their lawyers and the authorities. While they were closed, Big Texas Poker (https://www.facebook.com/BigTexasPoker/) stayed open but also only for a few days as they were then faced with the same letter and threat from the City of Plano and Plano police department. They too have since closed and are trying to come to a resolution. Big Texas Poker also started this GO Fund me page ---> https://www.gofundme.com/texas-poker-players-under-attack. During all this mess, FTN poker (https://www.facebook.com/ftnpoker/) opened its doors in McKinney, which is another Dallas suburb further north than Plano. At this point FTN remains open and has been for less than 1 week and counting.

 

[WedgeRock]

Go fund me page?!



Seriously. The threat of legal action is a cost of doing business. The perversion of Go Fund Me and other such sites as a means of cyber-panhandling is out of control.

 

[bankOman]

Go fund me page?!



Seriously. The threat of legal action is a cost of doing business. The perversion of Go Fund Me and other such sites as a means of cyber-panhandling is out of control.

Agreed 100%....if anything the rooms should each stick in 10-15k each and try to win a case of they really believe the legality.

 

[KhoiFish82]

Tried to see if Texas Card House could comment or provide any advice to the DFW rooms. Guess not.

 

[SixSpeedFury]

Why don't they just incoporate what Boston Billiards & Casino is doing to keep their games running?

In accordance with the Racing and Charitable Gaming Division of the New Hampshire Lottery Commission, Boston Billiard Club & Casino donates 35 percent of all gaming proceeds to a 501(3)(c) non-profit licensed with the New Hampshire Lottery Commission.

 

[Mogobu]

Lol, mixing gaming money with business money? I'm calling bull shit. A no rake/no tip model would have no money to mix. All cash would go back out when chips are collected. This guy is only fooling himself.

I think they have a point. Sure, with no rake or tips, the money in would equal the money out... but that doesn't mean there's no money to mix. There's plenty of money to mix.

In addition, consider if someone who's ahead decides to leave their cash "in the club" until next week... or just takes chips out until next week. That may be OK with the club. And let's say that the club needs to make rent now, but people pay their dues a little slow... and the club pays the rent, using the player's "deposit" - with the player's consent. Club stays alive, but the mingling really leans it more towards being run based on the poker, as opposed to a club member loaning the club some money to make the rent.

I think keeping the money separate does, in fact, matter. It's not the be-all-end-all difference, but it matters.

2 registers and 2 rooms don't change the fact it's still a business solely for poker, ie gambling.

What if there were a pre-existing social club that started hosting poker? And it did stuff exactly like this club? And then all the members who didn't like to play poker let their memberships lapse?

They'd end up in the exact same place. Would that be any different, to you?

just because it says legal on their website doesn't make it so. Until a court states it's legal I won't risk my money there.

That's not the way the courts work. They don't set out to say what's legal or illegal... someone challenges whether or not something fits the bill, and then the courts decide. You're free to sit on the sidelines, but if everyone did that, it would never be decided!

 

[crussader]

Both rooms from my understanding have a no rake, with all money going back to players. The only charge is a $10 hourly fee to sit at the table, whether cash games or tournaments.

I think this where they cross the line. A fee to sit at a poker table is a rake by definition. A number of casinos rake their poker games this way.

 

[WedgeRock]

Is there an option for a membership fee not tied to that visit (i.e. a weekly, monthly or annual fee)?

Do these poker rooms offer anything else? Food or drink, a place to watch sports, humidors, etc?

 

[CraigT78]

Is there an option for a membership fee not tied to that visit (i.e. a weekly, monthly or annual fee)?

Do these poker rooms offer anything else? Food or drink, a place to watch sports, humidors, etc?

Yes to both questions - membership at all levels, daily, monthly or yearly.

All rooms had TV's, snacks and sodas. Others have a lounge and pool table. But it was pretty clear the reason for the club.

 

[CraigT78]

That's not the way the courts work. They don't set out to say what's legal or illegal... someone challenges whether or not something fits the bill, and then the courts decide. You're free to sit on the sidelines, but if everyone did that, it would never be decided!

It's exactly how the courts work - these clubs challenge the law and if they succeed we can play poker. If not, the clubs still open are at a constant risk of being raided.