Tourney Please review my MTT breakdown - T20k starting stack - Re-buys, add-ons and bounties (1 Viewer)

[ngmcs8203]

Any feedback on my tourney structure would be appreciated. Bounties, re-buys, add-ons, levels. Am I rushing the final group after the second break? I was hoping to get the tourneys done in about 4hrs so folks who wanted to get home at a reasonable hour could do so and those who wanted to play a cash game could get cracking a little early too. Not sure if my end-of-tournament estimates are correct since I plan on including a BBA after the break. Expecting a max of 16 players.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

It looks pretty good to me. It’s always going to look like the blinds increase too much later on but that’s the life of a 4-5 hour tournament.
I personally would probably do away with the big blind anti’s. You’re in a sense going from an 250 BB to an 800 BB after the break and I don’t think it’s necessary because of how high the blinds will get around levels 13-15. Adding them after the first hour of not having them might also get confusing. Without the antis the tournament I would say will end around level 14 and with them probably level 13. I just think without them it will make levels 5-11 less like an all in crapshoot like it will be at levels 12+.

Good luck!

 

[Mojo1312]

A few edits for your consideration

Have cash games and tournaments on separate nights, do not run both on the same night.

IMO, a big blind ante serves little to no purpose in a tournament that has 16 or less players.

Focusing on the tournament and nixing the cash game creates room for you to improve the structure.

Drop the starting stack to 12,000 with a 1,000 chip bonus for early arrivals+ a 500 chip bonus for exact change.

Reduce the add-on to T6000

Increase the buy-in to $35 and drop the add-on to $10. (Two buy-ins and an add-on is $100)

Levels, 18 minutes unless otherwise noted:

50/100 24 minutes
75/150 24 minutes
100/200 24 minutes
150/300
12 minute break/Add-on
Remove T25's
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
700/1500
10 minute break
Remove T100's
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000
8 minute break
5000/10000
7500/15000
10000/20000 24 minutes
15000/30000 24 minutes

Bold highlights when the tournament should end.
15-17 players with re-buys and add-ons: 5:25 to 5:45 including breaks.

Hero may be able to raise the buy-in to $40 or $45 by prompting the tournament as its own special event.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I appreciate the feedback. With kids I am lucky enough to get one night every few months to host (this is the first one in 15 years). Had originally planned on a cash game, but that idea was intimidating for a few friends. Wanted it to be a bit more inclusive. Tourney up front so that those who don't want to play cash can go home. Those who want to play cash can stick around for a few more hours. Wife agreed to once every 2-3 months. Gotta work with what I am given.

 

[Mojo1312]

Once every two to three months? In that case, make it fun.

This is the extreme opposite of what I suggested earlier.

$30 T15000 with a $30 T15000 add-on, 8 player max per table. (Optional $10 prize pool that goes to the player with the highest hand in the tournament)

Place a starting stack in the center of each table that goes to the winner of the first hand.
(No need for an early bird bonus. Players will not want to miss out on the first hand.)

Level 1 - 60 minutes, levels 2 thru 7 - 20 minutes, level 8+ 30 minutes.

50/100
10 minute break/Add-on
End of re-buy period
Remove T25's
100/200
200/400
400/800
10 minute break
Remove T100's
1000/1500
1500/3000
3000/6000 - Players who bust out at this level will be able to start a cash game
Short break, quick color-up
5000/10000 - 30 minutes
10000/20000
15000/30000

Tournament length 4:15 to 4:45.

 

[ngmcs8203]

This structure is wild… We might just have to try it!

 

[andrebttx]

Once every two to three months? In that case, make it fun.

Place a starting stack in the center of each table that goes to the winner of the first hand.
(No need for an early bird bonus. Players will not want to miss out on the first hand.)

As a player, I personally would find variance this extreme to be incredibly unfun.

Regarding OP’s original structure design, I will say I’m incredibly supportive of bounties as a source of both fun and action - once we introduced those into our tournaments, they just became the default way for us to play.

 

[BGinGA]

Your blind increase percentages are incorrect. For example, going from 25/50 to 50/100 is a 100% increase, not 50%.

The actual percentage jumps in your structure are much higher than stated.

 

[BGinGA]

Actual percentage increases:
L1 25/50
L2 50/100 = 100% increase
L3 75/150 = 50%
L4 125/250 = 67%
L5 200/400/400bba = 167% (60% sb/bb only)
L6 300/600/600bba = 50%
L7 400/800/800bba = 33%
L8 600/1200/120bba = 50%
L9 1000/2000/2000bba = 67%
L10 2000/4000/4000bba = 100%
L11 3000/6000/6000bba = 50%
L12 5000/10000/10000bba = 67%
L13 8000/16000/16000bba = 60%
L14 15000/30000/30000bba = 88%
L15 25000/50000/50000bba = 67%
L16 40000/80000/80000bba = 60%

A few levels stand out as outliers: L2 (100%), L5 (167% !!), L7 (33%), L10 (100%), and L14 (88%). The rest are all within a narrow range of 50% to 67%.

With 9 players, expect the tournament to last no longer than a 7500/15000 blind level, and no longer than 14000/28000 for 17 players. With 20-minute levels, that means 13-14 levels = 4:20 to 4:40 plus breaks, but likely finish a couple of levels sooner.

Personally, I'd add a 200/400/no bba level between L4 and L5, replace L7 ànd L8 with 500/1000/1000 and 800/1600/1600, and replace L9 with 1200/2400/2400. Those changes will not dramatically alter the length of the event, but they will have an effect on how the tournament feels in terms of pace.

 

[Mojo1312]

As a player, I personally would find variance this extreme to be incredibly unfun.

Regarding OP’s original structure design, I will say I’m incredibly supportive of bounties as a source of both fun and action - once we introduced those into our tournaments, they just became the default way for us to play.

The non-traditional structure I posted succeeds in a couple of areas.

It allows for an hour+ of deep-stack play and it also stretches the amount of play for those who finish in the money.
2) O.P. and the players in his group can easily calculate when the cash game will start. (Level 7)

The optional $10 high hand creates an additional prize pool.

Awarding a starting stack to whoever wins the first hand at each table increases the size of the prize pool.
^^If this is what tweaks your nose, a starting stack is less valuable in a tournament where there is an add-on of equal size.

2) There is plenty of time for other players to double up through whichever player wins the first hand during the deep-stack period and after the break when the blinds start to double every level.

In respect to bounties, it is my opinion that they are better suited for multi table tournaments that run longer than 4:30.

 

[andrebttx]

The optional $10 high hand creates an additional prize pool.

Awarding a starting stack to whoever wins the first hand at each table increases the size of the prize pool.
^^If this is what tweaks your nose, a starting stack is less valuable in a tournament where there is an add-on of equal size.

2) There is plenty of time for other players to double up through whichever player wins the first hand during the deep-stack period and after the break when the blinds start to double every level.

I’m actually on board with the high hand jackpot - we’ve not only instituted one of those, we do a bad beat jackpot as well. Between those and bounties, it’s a way of actually having a flatter payout structure without it looking that way upfront, which is great for my more casual group, and lets more people leave happy.

But it’s that starting stack splash pot that would tilt me. I’d imagine folks feeling pretty salty getting dealt rags on the first hand watching a potential multi-way shove 2+xing someone’s stack.

 

[Mojo1312]

But it’s that starting stack splash pot that would tilt me. I’d imagine folks feeling pretty salty getting dealt rags on the first hand watching a potential multi-way shove 2+xing someone’s stack.

Only the nits.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I have a $5 high hand jackpot that is going to pay out around 11p. Hopefully it entices more to stick around for the cash game! Lol

 

[ngmcs8203]

So here is what we went with:

A few notes:

1. We started about 20 minutes late.
2. The table voted to allow rebuys after the break
3. Even thought the BBA probably saved us from going longer, the group thought the jump was crazy and it made for some confused first raise amounts.
4. There were probably 4-5 rounds that started a hand or two late because the deal would start before we realized that the next round had already started
5. People enjoyed the bounties and the all-in buttons
6. We ended up with 5 re-buys and 8 out of 9 players added on at the break.
7. Letting the rebuys go past the first break and my inability to remember to unpause the clock after the second break definitely made the tourney last longer than I had expected (we finished right at the 5hr mark, round 15)

For next time:

• I plan on the next tournament being a higher cost freezout. Somewhere between $50-80 instead of a $30+$10 rebuy and bounty tournament. That way the tourney prize pool is about the same.
• I have to remember to gather the high-hand money when people show up. We had one person hit a straight flush (me) and that extra $45 would have been nice!
• I think I'm going to drop the BBA but need to figure out another way to get the blinds to be more impactful to stack sizes in the late game. While we had rebuys leading up to it our first bustout didn't happen until round 11.

 

[Nine_high]

Place a starting stack in the center of each table that goes to the winner of the first hand.
(No need for an early bird bonus. Players will not want to miss out on the first hand.)

I was going to do a 10% on time bonus for my upcoming tourney. I've never heard of doing this instead but I kinda love it! Might try this

 

[maloviz]

Edit: I quoted the wrong person. See my comment below

 

[doublebooyah85]

Idk. I feel like this would create a very weird dynamic for the first hand... I mean sure this will definitely make people want to be on time. But it's such a huge advantage that it really promotes just shoving all in on the first hand. I could easily imagine a situation where 2 (or more) people are all in on the first hand trying to win this bonus. The winner of that hand is going to have 3+ starting stacks... Definitely exciting, but also kind of unfair

Huh? On time bonus everyone gets the extra chip.

Ohhh yeah extra money into the first pot sounds like an awful idea.

 

[maloviz]

Huh?

Whoops. I quoted the wrong comment. Here is the one I was referring to:

Place a starting stack in the center of each table that goes to the winner of the first hand.
(No need for an early bird bonus. Players will not want to miss out on the first hand.)

Idk. I feel like this would create a very weird dynamic for the first hand... I mean sure this will definitely make people want to be on time. But it's such a huge advantage that it really promotes just shoving all in on the first hand. I could easily imagine a situation where 2 (or more) people are all in on the first hand trying to win this bonus. The winner of that hand is going to have 3+ starting stacks... Definitely exciting, but also kind of unfair

 

[krafticus]

I was going to do a 10% on time bonus for my upcoming tourney. I've never heard of doing this instead but I kinda love it! Might try this

I do this every game. My games are usually 25-34 players, and I never have more than 4-5 that show up really late. Parking can be a pain in butt at my place, so as long as they are close to the 10 minute before the game starts cut-off, i give a chip. I give a 1k chip to add onto the 10k starting stack.

Honestly, one of the best things to get people there on time. Rewards >>> penalties !!!