Tourney Player Storms out Mid-tourney!!?? (38 Viewers)

[HiveKueen]

A first for the K$B Hold Em Hive...a relatively new player storms out mid-tourney leaving a good size stack, and many rattled players, behind. It was the last game of the season and several players at the table were battling to make the Season Championship.

She will be banned from teh league.

My question is, did I do the right thing taking her stack off the table right away? Some players, being aware that there were more chips in play at the other table, wanted the chips to stay and get blinded off. I can't make this make sense in my head but I'm open to feedback. we combined to the final table about 2 hours later which would have been the only other time to get them off the table and stop pretending she was still there.

Thanks for your thoughts.
HK

 

[Josh Kifer]

Id pull the stack for ease, but the players are right. You'd generally wanna blind off the stack or split it up so all the players stay at the same ratio of chips in the game vs blinds.

That could be as easy as tossing everyone 1k and banking the overage (for example, if they have 15k at a 8 person table.)

This isn't official rules, but how we would handled it to get the game back going.

 

[Beakertwang]

That’s how I would handle it. Having an absent player blinding off drastically affects decisions, IMO giving a distinct advantage to the 2 players directly to the absent player’s right. And the more chips on the other table is negligible, particularly if it’s a rebuy tournament. That’s just how it goes sometimes.

Also, I’m surprised this isn’t a @MrCatPants thread.

 

[Thomacetti]

A first for the K$B Hold Em Hive...a relatively new player storms out mid-tourney leaving a good size stack, and many rattled players, behind. It was the last game of the season and several players at the table were battling to make the Season Championship.

She will be banned from teh league.

My question is, did I do the right thing taking her stack off the table right away? Some players, being aware that there were more chips in play at the other table, wanted the chips to stay and get blinded off. I can't make this make sense in my head but I'm open to feedback. we combined to the final table about 2 hours later which would have been the only other time to get them off the table and stop pretending she was still there.

Thanks for your thoughts.
HK

Stack can not be forfeited and has to stay on the table and blinded off....unless player is DQ-ed.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Up to you. I believe, by the rules, you should leave the stack and blind it because it has not been officially forfeited. If I was at the table I would prefer they be blinded and that's technically the fairest for that now-banned player. But if I didn't have a dedicated dealer and it was too much I'm fine just grabbing it off the table.


Either way, use it as a teaching moment, mention it in an email and cite the Tournament Director's Association's rules. I think the way you would go about it is you would disqualify the player for whatever action it was. In that case, the stack must be taken off the table.

@Thomacetti beat me to it.

 

[Beakertwang]

Just to satisfy my curiosity: what precipitated her storming off?

 

[HiveKueen]

Just to satisfy my curiosity: what precipitated her storming off?

As best as we can tell she was frustrated with other players decisions including three players not checking down to bust an all in player and somebody beating her pocket KK on the river. She has shown herself to be an anxious, know-it-all type of player. Think a nasty Karen at the table. Given her volatility I’m actually afraid to have her attend any more games.

 

[upNdown]

The rules have always been pretty clear that the stack stays on the table, gets blinded off, and she is eligible for any prize money that her might win.
If you’d established a rule prior to that night, fine, follow your home rule. But you shouldn't be making a decision like that mid-tournament, especially if you yourself are playing.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I’m happy I’m not the only one that was shocked this isn’t a @MrCatPants thread

 

[HiveKueen]

More info...
The league's official rules are the TDA rules. Rule 71 D says the chips of a disqualified player shall be removed from play.

I think this rule fits my situation. She disqualified herself, versus the House doing it.

I'm actually open to splitting the stack evenly amongst the remaining players are the table - as a house rule, knowing this would never happen at a casino. I think the players at the affected table would have been happy with this. But, would the players at the other table be ok with it? Because now every player at the split-the-stack table has chips they didn't actually earn.

My goal here is to come up with the most fair outcome for all. Every option I've considered so far seems to have winners and losers, and some (blinding off) are harder to execute than others too.

 

[HiveKueen]

I’m happy I’m not the only one that was shocked this isn’t a @MrCatPants thread

Don't know him but this is funny!

 

[Jimulacrum]

As best as we can tell she was frustrated with other players decisions including three players not checking down to bust an all in player and somebody beating her pocket KK on the river. She has shown herself to be an anxious, know-it-all type of player. Think a nasty Karen at the table. Given her volatility I’m actually afraid to have her attend any more games.

I understand the practice of checking down to improve chances of a bust, but players who treat it like a religious edict and berate those who don't go along are insufferable. You should be grateful she made it easy to get rid of her.

 

[HiveKueen]

The rules have always been pretty clear that the stack stays on the table, gets blinded off, and she is eligible for any prize money that her might win.
If you’d established a rule prior to that night, fine, follow your home rule. But you shouldn't be making a decision like that mid-tournament, especially if you yourself are playing.

Agreed, not optimal to make a decison like that mid-tourney, but it was what it was. Can you point me to the TDA rule or rules you believe are applicable cause I don't see anything other than 71 D.
Thanks.

 

[Jimulacrum]

More info...
The league's official rules are the TDA rules. Rule 71 D says the chips of a disqualified player shall be removed from play.

I think this rule fits my situation. She disqualified herself, versus the House doing it.

It sounds like she just stormed out, so didn't expressly DQ herself, but I'd support the house DQing her for being a ragey wet blanket. Either way it's fair. Taking chips off the table is a little awkward, but if TDA supports it, great. Less annoyance for the remaining players to deal with.

 

[HiveKueen]

Stack can not be forfeited and has to stay on the table and blinded off....unless player is DQ-ed.

So doesn't leaving the game and premises qualify as disqualification? I would think yes. I would not have allowed her to come back into the game if she showed up a half hour later with her tale between her legs!

 

[ekricket]

lol, getting mad at her and rage banning her from the league for rage quitting one game. You guys sound like a bunch of Karen’s. “Players are supposed to act a certain way”.

Probably where she learned it from.

 

[Tonysquander]

Blinding off would be correct in my opinion. Also, it would be fairer especially if the departure resulted in a disadvantage at that table (e.g. 7 players instead of 8 at the other) because the remaining players are now being hit with blinds more frequently than their competitors. So I might exercise director discretion and blind the stack on the table until they are equalized (if that was even an issue) and them remove them at that time.

 

[HiveKueen]

One more tidbit of info...it was very clear from her verbalizations when she stormed out that she was not just taking a break and would be back. She shouted several times on the way down the long hall that she was done and leaving. Again, even if she had tried to come back into the game a while later, we would not have let her take her seat, even if we had left her stack on the table. Hope this additional info helps.

 

[Thomacetti]

More info...
The league's official rules are the TDA rules. Rule 71 D says the chips of a disqualified player shall be removed from play.

I think this rule fits my situation. She disqualified herself, versus the House doing it.

I'm actually open to splitting the stack evenly amongst the remaining players are the table - as a house rule, knowing this would never happen at a casino. I think the players at the affected table would have been happy with this. But, would the players at the other table be ok with it? Because now every player at the split-the-stack table has chips they didn't actually earn.

My goal here is to come up with the most fair outcome for all. Every option I've considered so far seems to have winners and losers, and some (blinding off) are harder to execute than others too.

She didn't DQ herself and it's her right to go away and maybe return or not, or maybe cash on that stack.
You only DQ-ed her because she didn't return...

Your move created a big disadvantage for the players at that table....

You normaly only get DQ-ed due to cheating or behaviour, not for leaving your stack unattended....but home environment is obv different.

 

[HiveKueen]

lol, getting mad at her and rage banning her from the league for rage quitting one game. You guys sound like a bunch of Karen’s. “Players are supposed to act a certain way”.

Probably where she learned it from.

No rage banning happened. Here is the respectful email we sent her this morning.

Subject: The League has made a difficult decision...
Kimberly (name changed to protect the guilty),

I can't tell you how stunned we were when you abruptly left the game last night. That has never happened before. It was pretty disruptive and left the other players at the table, some of whom were trying to secure a seat in the Season Championship, rattled.

All indications are that while you really like to play, you are not enjoying playing in our league. The other players seem to frustrate you quite a bit.

After a lot of thought, for the best interests of the league, we really feel it necessary to withdraw your league membership and the league welcome mat we have extended to you.

Maybe you and HiveKueen will cross paths at the casinos in western NY.

All the best to you.


Take care,

K$B

 

[ekricket]

She didn't DQ her and it's her right to go away and maybe return or not, or maybe cash on that stack.
You only DQ-ed her because she didn't return...

You move created a big disadvantage for the players at that table....

You normaly only get DQ-ed due to cheating or behaviour, not for leaving your stack unattended....but home environment is obv different.

I agree. But “she didn’t do what we wanted” so kick her ass out of the group.

Now they are asking The Manager if it’s ok that they kicked her out.

 

[upNdown]

Agreed, not optimal to make a decison like that mid-tourney, but it was what it was. Can you point me to the TDA rule or rules you believe are applicable cause I don't see anything other than 71 D.
Thanks.

Off the top of my head, no. But I’ve seen it happen in tournaments in real poker rooms.
I’m not trying to argue with you or anything, but you asked the question. She wasn’t disqualified; she just left. Barring a house rule, her stack was live and should have been blinded off.

 

[HiveKueen]

She didn't DQ herself and it's her right to go away and maybe return or not, or maybe cash on that stack.
You only DQ-ed her because she didn't return...

You move created a big disadvantage for the players at that table....

You normaly only get DQ-ed due to cheating or behaviour, not for leaving your stack unattended....but home environment is obv different.

Thanks for this feedback. **Immediately** after she left, I told my wife that she would not be allowed to play in the league anymore ( we had already conducted a post game "interview" with her a week before due to concerns about her behavior) - so even if she had come back to the game, which she clearly indicated was not her intent, we would not have allowed her to take her seat. We disqualified her based on her behavior (she was also speaking without "appropriate filters" to players in this game and the previous games she played in). We have learned the hard way not to try to motivate people to change their ways at the poker table. We strongly prefer to give too little leeway than to give too much and have a bigger problem down the road.

 

[ekricket]

Thanks for this feedback. **Immediately** after she left, I told my wife that she would not be allowed to play in the league anymore ( we already conducted a post game "interview" with her due to concerns about her behavior) - so even if she had come back to the game, which she clearly indicated was not her intent, we would not have allowed her to take her seat. We disqualified her based on her behavior (she was also speaking without "appropriate filters" to players in this game and the previous games she played in). We have learned the hard way not to try to motivate people to change their ways at the poker table. We strongly prefer to give too little leeway than to give too much and have a bigger problem down the road.

I’m sorry, but is this The Church Poker League? Just joking but it looks like you kick people out for cussing? Not knocking it, you guys do you guys, but I can’t fathom something like that in today’s society.

 

[Thomacetti]

You are welcome...
Just from my perspective (as a player and casino environment), I see a lot of quirky players at the table.
Most I like others I don't...but the rules are the rules and they are the same for everyone.

While I HATE players like Kassouf, I think WSOP TD's were way out of line taking decisions based on frustration & emotions....
Even when players don't act as desired, they still have their rights.

Again, home environment is different, so YMMV

 

[ekricket]

You are welcome...
Just from my perspective (as a player and casino environment), I see a lot of quirky players at the table.
Most I like others I don't...but the rules are the rules and they are the same for everyone.

While I HATE players like Kassouf, I think WSOP TD's were out of line taking decisions based on frustration & emotions....
Even when players don't act as desired, they still have their rights.

Again, home environment is different, so YMMV

It sounds like a HOA is running this game.

I’d just ignore it. Blind their stack off, do it every tournament as long as they contribute. Maybe try to tilt them early so they leave faster. There’s all kinds of players, some are good and some are bad for different reasons.

 

[Thomacetti]

It sounds like a HOA is running this game.

I’d just ignore it. Blind their stack off, do it every tournament as long as they contribute. Maybe try to tilt them early so they leave faster. There’s all kinds of players, some are good and some are bad for different reasons.

ban players for cursing would be like banning players at @ekricket's game for blazing at the porch

 

[Vinman]

What I would have done was left her stack to be blinded off over time, and if she finishes in the money/rankings, then she does.

Players have not showed up for the final day of top tournaments, be it due sickness, alcohol, drugs, or just being a jerk (*cough* Stu Ungar *cough*) and that's the way it's played out, and it's the fairest method for all involved. Like others have said, getting DQ'd in-tournament is due to much more serious offences like cheating or actual fisticuffs.

And later, after the tournament is over and you feel it is warranted, then send her a letter of disqualification for her actions.

P.S. Don't invite Phil Helmuth to your home tournaments.

On that note, didn't Stu Ungar finish 2nd or 3rd in a tournament where he never even attended the final day? Must have been some lead.

 

[Jimulacrum]

You are welcome...
Just from my perspective (as a player and casino environment), I see a lot of quirky players at the table.
Most I like others I don't...but the rules are the rules and they are the same for everyone.

While I HATE players like Kassouf, I think WSOP TD's were way out of line taking decisions based on frustration & emotions....
Even when players don't act as desired, they still have their rights.

Again, home environment is different, so YMMV

I can see ejecting Kimberly based on the YMMV of a home environment. It sounds like her storming off wasn't the sole offense but the last straw.

As to Kassouf, AFAIC he should be banned from everything. He exploits the closed format of tournaments to be disruptive and abusive to a captive audience, clearly to grant himself an advantage that's against the spirit of the game. He oozes bad faith. If I ran a restaurant I wouldn't let him order take-out.

 

[upNdown]

On that note, didn't Stu Unger finish 2nd or 3rd in a tournament where he never even attended the final day? Must have been some lead.

Yup. 1990 WSOP Main Event