Pineapple Ruling

ssanel54

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Just curious if others have had this situation occur, and how they would manage it in a home game.

When playing Crazy Pineapple (discard after flop), How do you handle when a person acts after the flop, but neglects to discard a card, and then the Turn card is revealed. In some cases the discard is obvious, but in others not so much. This is a friendly game and no one is trying to angle shoot, so what is the best solution?

Is it player responsibility or dealer responsibility to monitor this in a self dealt game?
 

jbutler

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My house rules are simple. Failure to discard before the turn and your hand is dead. No exceptions

same. sounds harsh, but though our game isn't necessarily social (it's raked), people are watching different games on different TVs and having conversations and it happened too often to reshuffle and redeal the turn on every occurrence, so it's really about saving time.

always player's responsibility unless it's the player last to act and the dealer is super trigger happy, but if a field player doesn't discard simultaneously with his betting/checking decision, that's his problem.
 

Mental Nomad

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The general rule in draw poker when someone has the wrong number of cards after the draw is that it is a "fouled hand." A fouled hand is dead. If your hand is fouled, you're out of that pot, regardless who fouled it. "Protect your hand" applies here - not just from accidental mucking, and others' poorly tossed discards, but also from accidentally getting yourself the wrong number of cards for the game.
 

ssanel54

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So you would allow...

Player 1 Check (no discard)
Player 2 bet (discard)
player 3 call (discard)
player 4 call (discard)
Player 1 call (discard)
TURN

This is another situation that comes up from time to time...
 

Mental Nomad

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Is it before the turn, or before the next person acts?

In Crazy Pineapple, everyone discards exactly one card, and nobody shows the discards, so it doesn't matter in what order people discard. It's critical that's it's finished before the turn card comes out.

To be completely proper - there will be a burn card, followed by the turn card. The discard should happen before the burn. This way, if there's an identifying blemish on the back of the turn card, nobody can use that information to decide what to discard. (This is why you don't burn the top card until you're ready to immediately deal the next one.)
 

ssanel54

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yes, there is a burn card for sure.

Cant you get additional information or advantage by waiting to see how everyone behind you acts? If you act first without discarding, and then the whole field stays in the hand behind you, maybe you change your philosophy breaking up the pair to go for a straight/flush draw....Im not sure if this strategy is just part of the game?

In Crazy Pineapple, everyone discards exactly one card, and nobody shows the discards, so it doesn't matter in what order people discard. It's critical that's it's finished before the turn card comes out.

To be completely proper - there will be a burn card, followed by the turn card. The discard should happen before the burn. This way, if there's an identifying blemish on the back of the turn card, nobody can use that information to decide what to discard. (This is why you don't burn the top card until you're ready to immediately deal the next one.)
 

Mental Nomad

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That's a good point; you can choose between a hand that plays well against a small field, or one that plays well against a large field.

Never occurred to me, because the only time I played it, everyone pitched a card at the same time after the flop betting, so we all knew how many players were going to the flop before we discarded.
 

catalyzeme

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That's a good point; you can choose between a hand that plays well against a small field, or one that plays well against a large field.

Never occurred to me, because the only time I played it, everyone pitched a card at the same time after the flop betting, so we all knew how many players were going to the flop before we discarded.
Isn't that standard? I mean, I don't think anyone is going to stop you from pitching a card early, but isn't the discard after the betting round?
 

Mental Nomad

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I looked around a bit at poker site for rules, and I've seen it both ways -

a. Player makes their betting decision and discards before the next player acts
b. All player bet the flop, and then all discard

Example of a: http://www.crazypineapplepoker.org/crazy/rules-crazy-pineapple-poker/
The first player left of the button, which is still in the hand, can now check or bet. After he has checked or bet, he must discard one of his three hole cards face down into the muck. This rule is, along with being dealt three hole cards, the only difference between Crazy Pineapple Poker and the more common Texas Hold’em.
The next player can then fold, check, raise or call. The round ends when bets/raises have been called and after all players have discarded one of their hole cards into the muck.

Example of b: http://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-strategy/crazy-pineapple-rules-19011
All three cards are dealt face-down, as in Hold’em. There is a typical betting round and then the flop is dealt. After the flop betting round each player still involved in the pot must discard one of their hole-cards.

I see more sites showing version b., and I can't say I respect a site caleld "crazypineapplepoker.org," which smacks of having a domain bought just to be ad bait... but if you choose to play a., I'd enforce that a player must discard when they take their betting action, and if they don't, they have a fouled hand and are out.

Anybody know specific card rooms that spread Crazy Pineapple and might have house rules listed?
 

BGinGA

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We require that the discard occurs as part of the player's action -- not before, and not after -- and it's the dealer's responsibility to get card(s) from every player who acts (no matter what their action). Players that fold throw in three cards. Players who check/call/bet throw in one card. The dealer always gets ~something~ from every player. Players who act out of turn (which includes discarding at the wrong time) are dealt with according to the rules that apply to acting out of turn (typically a warning, followed by rail time for repeated infractions).

But if the turn card appears with a three-card hand still in play, that hand is dead (because it's fouled, containing the incorrect number of cards). No exceptions.
 

catalyzeme

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We require that the discard occurs as part of the player's action -- not before, and not after -- and it's the dealer's responsibility to get card(s) from every player who acts (no matter what their action). Players that fold throw in three cards. Players who check/call/bet throw in one card. The dealer always gets ~something~ from every player. Players who act out of turn (which includes discarding at the wrong time) are dealt with according to the rules that apply to acting out of turn.

But if the turn card appears with a three-card hand still in play, that hand is dead (because it's fouled, containing the incorrect number of cards). No exceptions.

Interesting. I think I have only played it the other way. Pineapple and Crazy Pineapple, both with the discard coming after the betting round. I guess ultimately it doesn't really matter, just a variation. Maybe very slightly different in discard strategy, with position being emphasized more heavily if the discard comes with the bet.

I have a lot of inexperienced players and we are probably going to do a nickel game soon to introduce some games other than Texas Holdem, I will probably stick with the discard after the betting round.
 

Steverino

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We require that the discard occurs as part of the player's action -- not before, and not after -- and it's the dealer's responsibility to get card(s) from every player who acts (no matter what their action). Players that fold throw in three cards. Players who check/call/bet throw in one card. The dealer always gets ~something~ from every player. Players who act out of turn (which includes discarding at the wrong time) are dealt with according to the rules that apply to acting out of turn (typically a warning, followed by rail time for repeated infractions).

But if the turn card appears with a three-card hand still in play, that hand is dead (because it's fouled, containing the incorrect number of cards). No exceptions.


This is the way we have always done it. Never realized there was any other way.
 

CdnBeerLover

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When we play, all players must discard before any action occurs. So...
- flop appears
- all players discard one card
- once all players have discarded, as confirmed by the dealer, the first player to act can do so

To my mind, this keeps things simple.
 

bergs

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We're supposed to discard when each player acts, but the problem is that in some of these self-dealt games there are a number of distractions (discussions, jokes, fresh keg of beer, etc) and the dealer often doesn't police the game like they should. We have a dealer for the big games at BBOTB so hopefully that solves that problem but we really should get better about this (all of us - speaking for the MA/NH contingent and certainly myself).

- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -

There has more controversy over Crazy Pineapple than all other games combined. It's the only game where there is specific non-betting activity the player must take after the flop appears. #lazypineappleFTW.
 

catalyzeme

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For regular pineapple, do you guys play the same way? Bet and discard together? Or discard together pre-flop?
 

courage

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We play Crazy Pineapple every week at my home game where we have a dealer, and the local Horseshoe will spread it (but not Lazy P). I've also asked multiple times regarding the discard rule and the floor at 'shoe doesn't have a clue either. I've seen the web sites above and have encountered most of the arguments/confusion listed above. At my game I do it this way:

1. The dealer or any player (in the hand or not) can remind a player to discard. The lack of discard is usually indecision or distractions, not an angle, so it helps if everyone is keeping the game moving.
2. A discard without chips or verbal bet is a check, this kills the most obv angle shoot.
3. Players have until the turn to discard because yes, it can affect the decision regarding what card to discard if early in the action.
4. If player(s) have 3 cards when turn is dealt, their hand is dead. If this is true for all players in the hand, we return the chips and deal next hand. If an all-in situation and it's obv what card would have been discarded, we'll allow the hand to continue but only if all players agree.

I'll concede Lazy P is the superior game from the ease of play standpoint, and I'm the one who keeps Crazy P alive in my game simply because I enjoy it and the pain of choosing the wrong discard when 2 pair or the straight hits. I ran a Crazy P tourney once, that was quite a cluster. :p
 

Gear

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When we play, all players must discard before any action occurs. So...
- flop appears
- all players discard one card
- once all players have discarded, as confirmed by the dealer, the first player to act can do so

To my mind, this keeps things simple.

I prefer this method. I've played in games where it's the other way, i.e. each player discards when it's their turn, but I don't like it. It doesn't make THAT much difference, but there could be situations where it did matter.

However if you're going to play this method (everyone discards, then everyone acts in turn) players are NOT allowed to discard all three cards during the discard round. That is acting (folding) out of turn.
 

jbutler

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