PAHWM - 1/3 $800 deep with middle set multiway (1 Viewer)

[Legend5555]

Back at it again in my weekly $1/$3 game. Some new faces this night.

New Kid (A) $800
I've been battling a bit with this kid on my right. One of the most knowledgeable players I've seen yet in this game. But his bet sizings are very strange sometimes, and he likes to gamble a decent bit. One those that knows what he probably should do, but the gamble side of him gets the better of him. Very capable of mixing it up.

Passive Kid (M) $180
Played with him several times now. He obviously knows some things and follows streams and stuff. But he buys in short even though he brings enough to buy in for the max ($500). And sizings tend to be too small, especially pre. Often just dwindles down and isn't willing to jam pre like he should when down to $100 or less.

I cover A.

M opens from the HJ to $10, which is a tad small in this game.
A calls from the CO.
HERO calls from the button with .
SB calls.
BB calls.

5 ways
Pot: $50
Flop:

Checks to M who bets $15.
A min raises to $30.
SB and BB are older ladies who are already gearing up to fold.

HERO?

 

[MrCatPants]

You didn't give us a chance to raise pocket 6s from the button?

Also, what is your stack size?

Weak ace two pairs and some combo draw potential given the action. Effective stack size is important here.

 

[dinosaur]

Raise to 130.

 

[grebe]

Back at it again in my weekly $1/$3 game. Some new faces this night.

New Kid (A) $800
I've been battling a bit with this kid on my right. One of the most knowledgeable players I've seen yet in this game. But his bet sizings are very strange sometimes, and he likes to gamble a decent bit. One those that knows what he probably should do, but the gamble side of him gets the better of him. Very capable of mixing it up.

Passive Kid (M) $180
Played with him several times now. He obviously knows some things and follows streams and stuff. But he buys in short even though he brings enough to buy in for the max ($500). And sizings tend to be too small, especially pre. Often just dwindles down and isn't willing to jam pre like he should when down to $100 or less.

I cover A.

M opens from the HJ to $10, which is a tad small in this game.
A calls from the CO.
HERO calls from the button with .
SB calls.
BB calls.

5 ways
Pot: $50
Flop:

Checks to M who bets $15.
A min raises to $30.
SB and BB are older ladies who are already gearing up to fold.

HERO?

Lots.of.action.

We probably need to bomb this right away, as there are tons of hands that will call us, and all the draws. I like $100 on top, or $150.

EDIT: I would have bet the above, but in retrospect, a smart bet would be to either:
-bet enough to put M all in....so $170
-or bet enough to have M shove and reopen the action. Raise to $100. But since your read is he doesn't shove when he is supposed to, this might back fire.

 

[Legend5555]

You didn't give us a chance to raise pocket 6s from the button?

Also, what is your stack size?

Weak ace two pairs and some combo draw potential given the action. Effective stack size is important here.

I suggest re-reading the initial post if you don't know the effective stack size.

As far as 3 betting... 3 betting against this opener on only $180 when he pretty much is never folding pre and possibly shutting out the bigger stack in between that likes to gamble a bit doesn't seem like a very good idea.

 

[grebe]

I cover A.

Also, what is your stack size?

Effective stack is $800

 

[perfectjawnz]

I don't really like any option here haha. Re-raising basically ranges you to only sets as I don't think most draws are doing this (except maybe straightflush draws), and given varying stack sizes, it seems difficult to choose a good size.

I'm leaning towards call, but depending on the game flow and how serious everybody is, I think it'd be pretty funny to minclick it up to 60.

 

[MrCatPants]

@Legend5555 have you played enough with A to know their preflop tendencies? Do they raise with suited connectors or limp? Same with a wheel ace? What kind of hands is he open limping with that would connect with this board enough to raise with an actor still behind?

 

[Legend5555]

@Legend5555 have you played enough with A to know their preflop tendencies? Do they raise with suited connectors or limp? Same with a wheel ace? What kind of hands is he open limping with that would connect with this board enough to raise with an actor still behind?

This wasn't an open limped pot. M raised to $10, A called, I called. This was the first time I'd played with A. He was somewhat laggy pre as the opener, but wasn't 3 betting very much.

 

[Legend5555]

Part 2

New Kid (A) $800
I've been battling a bit with this kid on my right. One of the most knowledgeable players I've seen yet in this game. But his bet sizings are very strange sometimes, and he likes to gamble a decent bit. One those that knows what he probably should do, but the gamble side of him gets the better of him. Very capable of mixing it up.

Passive Kid (M) $180
Played with him several times now. He obviously knows some things and follows streams and stuff. But he buys in short even though he brings enough to buy in for the max ($500). And sizings tend to be too small, especially pre. Often just dwindles down and isn't willing to jam pre like he should when down to $100 or less.

I cover A.

M opens from the HJ to $10, which is a tad small in this game.
A calls from the CO.
HERO calls from the button with .
SB calls.
BB calls.

5 ways
Pot: $50
Flop:

Checks to M who bets $15.
A min raises to $30.
SB and BB are older ladies who are already gearing up to fold.
HERO flats the $30.

Reasoning: I already know the 2 ladies behind are folding. If they didn't it would be quite the shock as I've played with them a bunch and the typically telegraph pretty accurately. M has been running into it all night and is somewhat frustrated. I expect him to jam TP or a FD the majority of the time, and his preflop raising range is fairly snug. So I'm fairly confident he is going to jam. If he does, I'll have perfect clarity about what to do given what A decides to do. If for some reason, M just calls. Well... that sucks. But I feel like this gives me the best chance to bloat the pot against A. And A can basically never have AA here. If he has a set of 5s, then this gives me the best chance to get the money in before a scare card comes off. If he has just an A, it gives me the best chance to pick up his call of M's jam.

Ladies fold.
M jams for $170 total.
A calls.

Pot: $390 ($560 if I call)
Eff Stack: $620 (after call of $170)

HERO?

 

[dinosaur]

Can you fold here? How? Like you said, cant put him on aces.
Call and jam non club turns or jam now, right? And hope for no club?

Iono, I’ma dummy.

 

[MrCatPants]

Jam now.

 

[Legend5555]

A lot of times I post hands, that have just 1 or 2 critical decision points. This I think has 2. Was calling the 30 on the flop a good idea or not? I know I gave my reasons why, but that doesn't mean it's correct. And the 2nd point is here. And obviously fold is not an option.

 

[JoeBGo]

Yeah I’m pushing my stack in now. There’s enough in the pot even if A folds.

 

[dinosaur]

Im sure youre more seasoned than I. But my reason for wanting to raise the 30 was to stay away from this particular spot. Hopefully folding out 1 of the 2 villains. And going heads up.

I’m guessing there’s an ak-clubs or some world draw and a two pair or perhaps a straight flush draw. I mean, if the guy has aces, boo on him. Either way, stacks are going in the middle - I’d prefer it be heads up and not 3 way.

But following to see what happens/ed.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

Easy jam 100% of the time. Can't even get away on a scary turn with basically a 1:1 SPR.

 

[perfectjawnz]

yep, can't see anything other than jam here. tons of cards OTT can kill action or make your life harder

 

[Dugthefish]

I like flatting the 30. Reraise here basically turns our hand face up and pushes out all the hands that will give us action.

When A just flats the jam, now I think we can come over the top and it looks like we're trying to push him out to go heads up. If he likes to gamble, he's calling it all a fair amount of time.

 

[Legend5555]

 Conclusion

So I did indeed jam... Snap jammed actually.  A thought for a minute and talked for a bit and folded face up.

I won against  M.

 

[warma]

 Conclusion

So I did indeed jam... Snap jammed actually.  A thought for a minute and talked for a bit and folded face up.

I won against  M.

Interesting intel. Did you end up showing?

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

I like flatting the 30. Reraise here basically turns our hand face up and pushes out all the hands that will give us action.

When A just flats the jam, now I think we can come over the top and it looks like we're trying to push him out to go heads up. If he likes to gamble, he's calling it all a fair amount of time.

Yah I’d rather get him to put some money in now and jam the River if no club
Obviously one or both hopefully have clubs

I’m shocked he folded that nut club draw

I don’t know a single player in any game here would fold even a bare 10 high flush draw

 

[Legend5555]

Interesting intel. Did you end up showing?

I had to because the third player was all in.

 

[warma]

I had to because the third player was all in.

Ack. Forgot that

 

[chipchipchip]

Was calling the 30 on the flop a good idea or not? I know I gave my reasons why, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

I’m always looking at short stacks in spots like this. A short stack that’s very interested in the pot is such a valuable tool to leverage. If I can get them to shove and reopen betting with a big hand like middle set, that’s the best possible outcome, squeezing the other big stack(s) involved. So on that I say risking this call and possibly giving a cheap card is worth it because the value of getting stacks in now due to short-stack dynamics is too high.

Calling here is the best way to convince shorty to shove, and get the other guy to call in between. You look like a much weaker hand than a set here pretty much all the way until it’s all in. Good play.

Same goes in spots with a shorty where you *don’t* want to reopen betting, raise just enough to make their shove an incomplete reraise. Either way always watch stack sizes and size your bets accordingly.