QuadNines
Pair
PCF'ers - looking for some suggestions / feedback here. Thanks in advance...
we have a regular Thursday night game with a pretty consistent roster. Most are older guys, who are looking for a more social experience, and occasionally we have a few guys come that want more action. Those gambler-types often grumble a bit about the lower stakes and structure, whereas the regulars (who outnumber the gamblers 4 to 1), are pretty content. This same bunch used to play a weekly tournament with a lot of re-buys, etc - so the gamblers simply re-bought multiple times, were all in more frequently, etc. The table almost always has 10, and sometime even 11 people (crowded, but again, this is a social thing)...
We converted to a cash game about 3 years ago, and most are happy - however, what it took to convert folks to a cash game was some concessions, as follows, and this is where I need advice and objective feedback / opinions.
We have everyone buy in for $40 - to keep deeper pockets from dominating, and play 25c / 50c, no antes. Rather than no-limit (to pacify some the older guys), anytime there is less than $4.00 in the pot, the max raise is $4.00. After that, its pot-limit. Opening raises are almost always $2.50 (5xBB), and occasionally $3.00 or $3.50 - however at 5x, we often get some of even the older regulars (tighter / non-gamblers) willing to pay 5x see a flop - with these folks then typically folding to a 3 be thereafter (as they should). Even with these stacks and stakes / structure, we play a LOT of pots that are over $25.00 - and its not uncommon to see $100 pots being played. I've seen plenty at / over $200.00. Most players are willing to re-buy at least once if they bust out - and we have some who will buy 3 or 4 times. The most I recall seeing anyone lose in one night is $200 (and he is super loose / not experienced) - and the most I've ever seen anyone leave with was up about $250.00
It was somewhat of a chore to get some of the regulars to go from a $20 Tournament to a $40 cash game, so I am hesitant to bump the buy in up - but as you can imagine with this structure, the chief complaint I hear on occasion is that NOT playing No-Limit makes it a bit of a limp-fest, with speculators remaining in hands they shouldn't etc. then making hands, they otherwise would not have. My reply is often along the lines of noting that those speculators will NOT call a $4.00 pre-flop raise - so the gamblers who complain should stop thinking 5x is going to entice a fold.
What do you guys think...? Given the players and the type of game we are interested in (more social than gambling, etc). what changes might you suggest, or adjustments? I was thinking the next evolution might be to go to a $5.00 max raise anytime the pot is under $5 - thinking that would surely kick out speculators...?
Be kind with your feedback here. This game / group is not looking for casino action / big stakes. Most are happy with things. I am primarily hoping to pacify some of the complainers, and maybe attract a couple other new players without running off the core group that was previously happy playing a $20 tournament structure (!!). Given our criteria, would "you" be interested in such a game / format? what might you change? Thanks!
we have a regular Thursday night game with a pretty consistent roster. Most are older guys, who are looking for a more social experience, and occasionally we have a few guys come that want more action. Those gambler-types often grumble a bit about the lower stakes and structure, whereas the regulars (who outnumber the gamblers 4 to 1), are pretty content. This same bunch used to play a weekly tournament with a lot of re-buys, etc - so the gamblers simply re-bought multiple times, were all in more frequently, etc. The table almost always has 10, and sometime even 11 people (crowded, but again, this is a social thing)...
We converted to a cash game about 3 years ago, and most are happy - however, what it took to convert folks to a cash game was some concessions, as follows, and this is where I need advice and objective feedback / opinions.
We have everyone buy in for $40 - to keep deeper pockets from dominating, and play 25c / 50c, no antes. Rather than no-limit (to pacify some the older guys), anytime there is less than $4.00 in the pot, the max raise is $4.00. After that, its pot-limit. Opening raises are almost always $2.50 (5xBB), and occasionally $3.00 or $3.50 - however at 5x, we often get some of even the older regulars (tighter / non-gamblers) willing to pay 5x see a flop - with these folks then typically folding to a 3 be thereafter (as they should). Even with these stacks and stakes / structure, we play a LOT of pots that are over $25.00 - and its not uncommon to see $100 pots being played. I've seen plenty at / over $200.00. Most players are willing to re-buy at least once if they bust out - and we have some who will buy 3 or 4 times. The most I recall seeing anyone lose in one night is $200 (and he is super loose / not experienced) - and the most I've ever seen anyone leave with was up about $250.00
It was somewhat of a chore to get some of the regulars to go from a $20 Tournament to a $40 cash game, so I am hesitant to bump the buy in up - but as you can imagine with this structure, the chief complaint I hear on occasion is that NOT playing No-Limit makes it a bit of a limp-fest, with speculators remaining in hands they shouldn't etc. then making hands, they otherwise would not have. My reply is often along the lines of noting that those speculators will NOT call a $4.00 pre-flop raise - so the gamblers who complain should stop thinking 5x is going to entice a fold.
What do you guys think...? Given the players and the type of game we are interested in (more social than gambling, etc). what changes might you suggest, or adjustments? I was thinking the next evolution might be to go to a $5.00 max raise anytime the pot is under $5 - thinking that would surely kick out speculators...?
Be kind with your feedback here. This game / group is not looking for casino action / big stakes. Most are happy with things. I am primarily hoping to pacify some of the complainers, and maybe attract a couple other new players without running off the core group that was previously happy playing a $20 tournament structure (!!). Given our criteria, would "you" be interested in such a game / format? what might you change? Thanks!
