Tourney new T100 for Christmas? (1 Viewer)

[1A25R]

goal: Build a T100 tournament set for 30 players; 30k and rebuy.
My maths tell me that I need 1120 chips including rebuy for 50% of the field and chip up (constraint; royals are sold by multiples of 25)

T100 x325
T500 x150
T1000 x350
T5000 x250
T25000 x75
T100000 x25


Starting stack
10x 100/ 4x 500/ 7x 1k / 4x 5k


improvements? did i forget something?

 

[Mr Winberg]

This is a matter of taste, but I prefer to get all lower denom chips on the tables in the starting stacks, and for rebuys and color-ups use higher denoms which won't be colored up.

30 player 30k with 50% rebuy means 1.35 million on the table. It should end around the 30k/60k level, meaning T1000 won't be in play but T5000 will. Therefore I would only use T5k and up for rebuys and color-ups.

Starting stack
10x 100/ 4x 500/ 7x 1k / 4x 5k

With my approach, and not taking extras or multiples of 25 into consideration, you would need
T100: 300
T500: 120
T1000: 210
T5000: 120
for starting stacks.
If every rebuy gets a T5k and a T25k, that's 15 more of each.

Coloring up T100 - T1000 requires T300000 in chips, so that's and extra 12 T25k.

In total:
T100: 300
T500: 120
T1000: 210
T5000: 135
T25000: 27

Since you probably are rounding up when coloring up, and since you probably want to remove a lot of the T5k when the final table is shorthanded (especially heads up), some extra T25k won't hurt. The restraint on rolls of 25 takes care of that.

I'm not saying other approaches are wrong, but that's how I would do it (except I would use a non-PCF approved breakdown in the startingstacks! Probably 20/6/20/1 or something ).

 

[Mr Winberg]

T100000 x25

From my experience, you can if you want add a chip denom when the total chip count is ~15 of that denom. It's a bit forced, but I sometimes do it cause it's cool. When the chip count is around 30 of the denom value then the chip comes to use and is actually needed. With a total chip count of around 1.3 million, you don't really need a T100000. If you use that denom, you will get very few into play. I would buy a plaque instead of 25 chips, but probably neither.

 

[1A25R]

thanks for the feedback

regarding the T100: I agree that I need 300. but i'll order 325 to have spares if they are "lost" in a pocket.


here bellow are the structures that I plan to use
T5000 will remain till the end (but I will remove some when the final table is shorthanded)
However 1000 will be used a lot, so can you develop " T1000 won't be in play " cause I'm not sure to understand you point.

 

[Mr Winberg]

However 1000 will be used a lot, so can you develop " T1000 won't be in play " cause I'm not sure to understand you point.

I never said they won't be in play.

My point is a combination of the fact that only 210 T1000 are used in the starting stacks, and that I personally don't like introducing new chips (in rebuys and color-ups) that will be removed anyway.

Personally, if I wanted more T1000 in play (which I would) then I would have them in the starting stacks. For example, 10/4/12/3.

 

[Frogzilla]

goal: Build a T100 tournament set for 30 players; 30k and rebuy.
My maths tell me that I need 1120 chips including rebuy for 50% of the field and chip up (constraint; royals are sold by multiples of 25)

T100 x325
T500 x150
T1000 x350
T5000 x250
T25000 x75
T100000 x25


Starting stack
10x 100/ 4x 500/ 7x 1k / 4x 5k


improvements? did i forget something?

T100 chipsets are really efficient. I’d get it down to 1000 to fit in a birdcage. To run your tournament, you only NEED:
300x 100
120x 500
220x 1000
140x 5000
40x 25000

Which is only 820 chips.

To get to 1000 (and add a mostly decorative barrel of T100k that shouldn’t get into play with this structure)
325x T100
150x T500
250x T1000
200x T5000
50x T25000
25x T100000

 

[Mr Winberg]

T100 chipsets are really efficient. I’d get it down to 1000 to fit in a birdcage. To run your tournament, you only NEED:
300x 100
120x 500
220x 1000
140x 5000
40x 25000

Was my math off? I believe even fewer are needed:

In total:
T100: 300
T500: 120
T1000: 210
T5000: 135
T25000: 27

[...] some extra T25k won't hurt.

Edit: Aaahhh, I see you round to barrels! Yes, in practice that makes sense. For these you need to round to rolls of 25, though. I'd myself probably round to racks...

 

[Frogzilla]

Was my math off? I believe even fewer are needed

I am just paranoid of running out of chips to do rebuys and err high on the top denoms

 

[1A25R]

I never said they won't be in play

meaning T1000 won't be in play but T5000 will.

Yes you did

So if I understand
Option a)
there will be 210 in play in the starting stack + 30 to chip up T100
So i can bring it down to 250 and the rebuy will be done with T5K or 5k + 25k late in the levels ...

option b (your preferred)
go for starting stack 10/4/12/3 then order T1000 x475 & T5000 x200 and rebuy with 5K

 

[BGinGA]

1000 will be used a lot, so can you develop " T1000 won't be in play " cause I'm not sure to understand you point.

He means that the T1000 chips won't be in play at the end of the tournament (having been removed), so adding more T1000 chips (beyond those in the starting stacks) during color-ups is inefficient.

I also agree that 10/4/12/3 starting stacks are superior, since you won't be adding any T1000 chips to pad the initial count -- only having 7x per stack isn't quite enough since the T1000 is a workhorse chip for a large portion of the event. However, you could get by with 10/4/7/4 stacks if you used T1000 chips to color-up the T100s, or if your re-buy stacks contained some T1000 chips in addition to T5000s.

Even with spares, 1000 chips is plenty to run a three-table T30k event using a T100-base set. I'd go with the following (spares included):

325 x T100 (includes 25 spares)
125 x T500 (includes 5 spares)
250 x T1000 (includes 30x for T100 color-up and 10 spares)
225 x T5000 (includes 12x for T500 color-up, 90x for 15 re-buys, and 3 spares)
25 x T25000 (includes 10x for T1000 color-ups and 15 spares, some of which can be used to replace T5000 chips towards the end)
-----------------------
950 total chips

I'd probably round it up to 1000 chips by adding 50x bounty chips.

You won't need T100k chips.

* edited to correct early-morning brain fart regarding required number of T5k chips for re-buys

 

[1A25R]

Which is only 820 chips.

how you handle the rebuys ?
25k +5k ?

 

[Mr Winberg]

Yes you did

Oh, I see. I meant when the tournament ends. The whole quote is

It should end around the 30k/60k level, meaning T1000 won't be in play but T5000 will.

but I guess I could have made myself more clear by adding ".. during the end game".

My point is: Since ALL T1000 will be removed in the last color up, why introduce more during the tournament? Introducing new T1000 at color-ups is a manual task that is undone when the T1000 are removed towards the end. It's much more labour efficient to introduce T5k or even better T25k when coloring up and T5k+T25k for rebuys.

If you want to introduce the T1000 to "get them in play", then why not have them in the starting stacks? That way, they can be enjoyed from the very beginning.

option b (your preferred)
go for starting stack 10/4/12/3 then order T1000 x475 & T5000 x200 and rebuy with 5K

In this case you need to order 375 T1000 since 360 are used in the starting stacks. 3 T5k per starting stack is 90 chips. 15 rebuys means 15 more, which is 105, meaning you need to order 125 (in which case you're covered even if everyone rebuys!)
T25k is just a matter of calculating the total estimated chip count and making sure you're covered. Sure, T5k are in play towards the end, but most will be removed when heads up. If everyone rebuys that's 1.8 million, or 72 T25k.

Beware, most PCF:ers will think this is too much T1000, they will agree with only having 7 per player. I am part of a minority in that regard.

 

[1A25R]

I also agree that 10/4/12/3 starting stacks are superior, since you won't be adding any T1000 chips to pad the initial count -- only having 7x per stack isn't quite enough since the T1000 is a workhorse chip for a large portion of the event. However, you could get by with 10/4/7/4 stacks if you used T1000 chips to color-up the T100s, or if your re-buy stacks contained some T1000 chips in addition to T5000s.

I understand by your comments that the trick is to balance the 1k/5k

yes, originally my plan was to introduce more T1000 chips to color-up the T100s and the rebuy for the erly levels on 5x 1k + 5 x5k


Back to my drawing table......

 

[Frogzilla]

Yes you did

So if I understand
Option a)
there will be 210 in play in the starting stack + 30 to chip up T100
So i can bring it down to 250 and the rebuy will be done with T5K or 5k + 25k late in the levels ...

option b (your preferred)
go for starting stack 10/4/12/3 then order T1000 x475 & T5000 x200 and rebuy with 5K

Option b you only need 375 T1000

how you handle the rebuys ?
25k +5k ?

Early level rebuys, I’d do 5x 1k + 5x 5k.

Later levels, 6x 5k or a 5k + 25k.

 

[Mr Winberg]

25 x T25000

I think this is too few. If 15 rebuy that's 1.35 million in play. The 25 T25k account for 625k, meaning you need 145 T5k to cover the rest. That's 170 chips heads up (actually a few more due to rounding up color-ups), which is a bit too much for my liking.

how you handle the rebuys ?
25k +5k ?

That's how I would do it.

Don't forget the early bird bonus! Make sure you have chips for that!

 

[BGinGA]

I understand by your comments that the trick is to balance the 1k/5k

yes, originally my plan was to introduce more T1000 chips to color-up the T100s and the rebuy for the erly levels on 5x 1k + 5 x5k


Back to my drawing table......

Problems arise from having 4x T5000 in the starting stacks *and* using T5000s (or worse, T5k+T25k) for re-buys -- because there is not sufficient change on the table to break down the 're-buy stack' into playable chips.

 

[Legend5555]

I think breaking a 25k chip in a rebuy stack is going to be very difficult. I think 6 5k chips is better, no?

 

[Mr Winberg]

I think breaking a 25k chip in a rebuy stack is going to be very difficult. I think 6 5k chips is better, no?

Perhaps, I didn't think about that.

 

[BGinGA]

I think this is too few. If 15 rebuy that's 1.35 million in play. The 25 T25k account for 625k, meaning you need 145 T5k to cover the rest. That's 170 chips heads up (actually a few more due to rounding up color-ups), which is a bit too much for my liking.

My preference for total chips in play at tournament end is between 80-200, with optimum numbers in the 120-160 range (two denominations, typically ~75%/25%).

 

[Mr Winberg]

My preference for total chips in play at tournament end is between 80-200, with optimum numbers in the 120-160 range (two denominations, typically ~75%/25%).

Well in that case...

 

[1A25R]

you convinced me on the 10 / 4 / 12 / 3
I'm reviewing the thing to have 6x 5k for the rebuy
And for chip up I need to start using the "big stack" buy lower chips so I do not need 90 5k to chip up the 450'000 in play with 100, 500 & 1000

 

[Frogzilla]

10/4/12/3 is achievable with 1000 also

325x T100
125x T500
375x T1000
125x T5000
50x T25000

 

[Mr Winberg]

And for chip up I need to start using the "big stack" buy lower chips so I do not need 90 5k

Even when the big stack hasn't bought the lower chips (the players don't always behave) it's still easy enough to exchange a T25k with the big stack to get the chips you need.

For example, first color-up is 300 T100, i.e., 30k. I'd take a T25k and a T5k from the bank and get the chips I need from the big stacks.

 

[1A25R]

and get the chips I need from the big stacks.

yep, specially the 500 to exchange with singles 100 ...

I've always played in T25 so I knew that T1000 is the solution, now I have to figure out the dynamics of the T100 and the 25k but it really seems that T100 is more efficient

 

[Legend5555]

yep, specially the 500 to exchange with singles 100 ...

I've always played in T25 so I knew that T1000 is the solution, now I have to figure out the dynamics of the T100 and the 25k but it really seems that T100 is more efficient

I'm personally a fan of T100 as people just seen to do better counting 1, 5, 1, 5. Plus you don't have 12 each of T25 and T100 reduces chips in play. And I've always found 8, 8 causes too much change making.

 

[1A25R]

If I go 10/4/12/3

it's an error to introduce 30 additional T1000 at the first chip up?
Do you suggest go directly with 5k ?

 

[Mr Winberg]

No, I wouldn't say that it's an error. If you want those extra 30 T1000 in play, then go for it!

 

[BGinGA]

If I go 10/4/12/3

it's an error to introduce 30 additional T1000 at the first chip up?
Do you suggest go directly with 5k ?

Not necessarily an error, but 360x T1000s in play is plenty, even spread across three tables. I'd use T5000s to color up the T100s and T500s, and T25000s to color-up the T1000s.

 

[1A25R]

thanks for the advice BGinGA

 

[swemon]

I guess following the WSOP starting stacks is never advisable, where they seem to be using 10/2/8/X? That would appear to put slightly more T1000’s on the table initially, albeit at a cost of more change making with the reduction of T500.