Tourney Need chip & blind advice for 4-table tourney (2 Viewers)

Chris May

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I am not an experienced player, but I play at friends' small home tournaments once or twice a year and have hosted a 2-table tourney of my own with decent success. Now I want to have a 4 table evening tourney with about 36 players. Hoping to come up with a decent chip set and blind structure so we can start at 7 and finish at 1 or 2 in the morning.

I was going to get a 1000-chip set in 5 denominations (1, 5, 25, 100, 500) and start each player with 500, allowing one re-buy before the end of the second break. However, this only comes to 16 chips for each player's stack, which seems kind of paltry, and I can see that there would be a lot of need for making change during the game. Would you guys go for 1500? 2000? Four denominations or five? Higher denominations?

Here is a spreadsheet I wrote with a tentative structure. Let me know what you think.
 

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At first look, I would say you don't have enough playable chips for the early levels -- you have 80% of your buy-in contained in 4 chips (the T100) and, with your initial blind structure, those won't come into play for a long time.

I would scrap the 1s -- by only giving 5 in the starting stack, a person is only able to call a BB once, and then make the blinds once before they would need to go to another player to make change.
 
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To be honest, the only reason to use tourneys that start at 1's or 5's is so the set can double as a cash set, which is a very bad idea. Separate sets are required. If you're using a dedicated tourney set, why not follow similar progression/starting stacks as most other tourneys (25/100/500/1k/5k)?


To figure out how many chips you need, decide on starting stacks, possible re-entries, and color up chips.

10k Starting stacks:


upload_2016-10-9_20-47-38.png



These are JUST for starting stacks (min of 1120 chips). You'll need to factor in re-entries and color ups (5k chips).
 
I agree with Trihonda with one caveat -- if you're planning on playing other games (like stud), then you might need a collection of 5s for antes / bring-ins.
 
I agree with Trihonda with one caveat -- if you're planning on playing other games (like stud), then you might need a collection of 5s for antes / bring-ins.

40 person stud tourney? Well, at least the tables will be smaller and not require as many chips
 
This is the only playable 40 person breakdown I could get to work with 1000 chips

1000 Chips
320x25 320x100 160x500 200x2000

T$10000 Starting Stacks
20 of each: 8/8/6/3 8/8/2/4

This leaves 60x2000 for color-ups

Have Fun
 
I


I'd love to play just about ANY other game in a tourney format besides Holdem.

When I bought my "Playroom" set, my friends primarily were Hold 'Em types, and we would get a maximum of 2 full tables at our tournaments... however, I got just enough 5s so that I could run 2 tables of HORSE or Stud if I wanted to.

Of course, the game folded before we could put them into use... grrr...
 
All right, thanks to all for your replies to my question. What do you think of this revised T10000 structure, with 1600 chips instead of 1000?

And would you say my terminology is proper? I'd like to make sure it is correct.

 
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The structure needs work. Typically, you never ever want a level with blinds that double. A 50-66% increase is ideal.

You have numerous levels that double, and one level with a 150% increase. I would not play this structure.
 
I am not an experienced player, but I play at friends' small home tournaments once or twice a year and have hosted a 2-table tourney of my own with decent success. Now I want to have a 4 table evening tourney with about 36 players. Hoping to come up with a decent chip set and blind structure so we can start at 7 and finish at 1 or 2 in the morning.

I was going to get a 1000-chip set in 5 denominations (1, 5, 25, 100, 500) and start each player with 500, allowing one re-buy before the end of the second break. However, this only comes to 16 chips for each player's stack, which seems kind of paltry, and I can see that there would be a lot of need for making change during the game. Would you guys go for 1500? 2000? Four denominations or five? Higher denominations?

Here is a spreadsheet I wrote with a tentative structure. Let me know what you think.

If you are going to use T1 chips for tournament play, here is what I recommend:

http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/chips-needed-and-blind-schedule-using-1s.15271/#post-268795

A 36-player tournament will require these additional blind levels and corresponding chip set:

L19 800 1600
remove T100 chips
L20 1000 2000 ***
L21 1500 3000
L22 2000 4000

A 36-player event with 15-minute blind levels should last no longer than L20, or about 5 hours plus breaks.

starting stacks:
10 x T1
8 x T5
10 x T25
7 x T100
----------------
35 chips = T1000 (250BB)

chip set:
360 x T1
288 x T5
360 x T25
271 x T100 (includes 19x to color-up T1 and T5 chips)
73 x T500 (used to color-up T25 and T100 chips)
----------------
1352 chips

However, I recommend that you drop the T1 chips and use a T5 base structure. The same blind structure can be used (drop the first five levels) if you alter the starting stacks to T5000 and add the following blind levels:

L14 800 1600
remove T100 chips
L15 1000 2000
L16 1500 3000
remove T500 chips
L17 2000 4000
L18 3000 6000
L19 4000 8000
L20 6000 12000 ***
L21 8000 16000
L22 10000 20000

A 36-player T5-base event with 15-minute blind levels should last no longer than L20, or about 5 hours plus breaks.

starting stacks:
10 x T5
10 x T25
7 x T100
4 x T500
2 x T1000
----------------
33 chips = T5000 (250BB)

chip set:
360 x T5
360 x T25
252 x T100
144 x T500
83 x T1000 (includes 11x to color-up T5 and T25 chips)
21 x T5000 (used to color-up T100 and T500 chips)
----------------
1220 chips


Tournament length is a product of the number of entrants, the size of the starting stacks (in terms of # of starting big blinds), the progression of the blind structure (percentage increase), and the length of the blind levels. Generally speaking, a deep-stack four-table tournament with 200 starting big blinds and a decent blind structure will run six to eight hours, depending upon the length of the blind levels.

You can typically run a successful tournament using four or five denominations, depending upon the number of entrants. Those specific sets of denominations can vary quite a bit, so long as some basic guidelines are followed. One such guideline is that for maximum value, all denominations should be 4x or 5x apart. Another is that to ease and speed up play, at least 8 chips of the two lowest denominations should be included in the starting stacks (10 is better, 12 is considered optimum by many people). One advantage of using a T1 or T5 base set of denominations is that the starting stacks will contain 10x of the two lowest denominations. T25 base sets will require either 8 (bare minimum) or 12 (definitely better, but more expensive). The T1 and T5 sets (and multiples, like T1000-base and T5000-base) provide more bang for the buck.
 
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All right, thanks to all for your replies to my question. What do you think of this revised T10000 structure, with 1600 chips instead of 1000?

And would you say my terminology is proper? I'd like to make sure it is correct.


Here is a T10000 structure (T25 base) that requires a corresponding set of 1300 chips:

starting stacks:
12 x T25
12 x T100
5 x T500
6 x T1000
----------------
35 chips = T10000 (200BB)

chip set:
432 x T25
432 x T100
180 x T500
227 x T1000 (includes 11x to color-up T25 chips)
27 x T5000 (used to color-up T100 and T500 chips)
----------------
1298 chips. Add additional T5000 chips to cover re-buys (shouldn't need more than 30 extras for 15 rebuys).

rd sb bb
L1 25 50
L2 25 75
L3 50 100
L4 75 150
L5 100 200
L6 150 300
remove T25 chips
L7 200 400
L8 300 600
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200
L11 800 1600
L12 1000 2000
L13 1500 3000
remove T100/T500 chips
L14 2000 4000
L15 3000 6000
L16 4000 8000
L17 6000 12000
L18 8000 16000
L19 10000 20000 ***
L20 15000 30000
L21 20000 40000
L22 30000 60000

A 36-player tournament using 20-minute blind levels should end no later than L19 (6+ hours plus breaks).
 
All right, thanks again for your learned commentary. Here is round 3 of my attempt. I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy a large, versatile tournament set from T25 to T10000, something like the breakdown shown below. I narrowed the blind increments but had to make the rounds shorter to finish at a reasonable hour. Comments are again warmly solicited.

If anyone has Numbers for Mac OS X and wants a copy of the spreadsheet I am using, I will be glad to pass it along. It has helped me a lot.

blinds v.3.jpg
chips v.3.jpg
 
There is no reason to have a T10K chip. You should use a T25K if necessary but consider this.

40 players times X 10K chips = 400K in chips...divided by 5K equals only 80 chips in play when heads up if you color them all. Use 2- 5K chips for rebuys

...and welcome to PCF. Nice to have another AZ member (even though I'm overseas, Mesa is where I'm from and come back to in summer)
 
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I also would consider using BGinGA's blind schedule. He is the authority here regarding tournament structures. In some places your blinds increase too much and the result is a shove fest in place of rewarding good play.
 
a few observations:
  • using T10K chips when T5000s are in play is a waste of money and are awkward to use - get T25K chips instead.
  • the reference color shown for the T10K chip is too close to T1000. Consider a blue, red, or dark green T25000 chip.
  • set breakdown contains a lot of unnecessary chips (should be equal numbers of T25 and T100 chips, for example). See below for set recommendation.
  • re-buy period is too long -- players that re-buy late in L9 get essentially 5BB to start L10, which is pretty pointless. Anything less than 20BB (past L6) is -EV.
  • blind structure is erratic - contains a 100% increase plus four jumps 60% or higher, while other increases are as low as 25%. Consistency is the key to success..

440 x T25
440 x T100
200 x T500
240 x T1000
60 x T5000
20 x T25000
------------
1400 chips

Plenty of chips for color-ups, re-buys, and spares.
 
I also would consider using BGinGA's blind schedule. He is the authority here regarding tournament structures..

This ^

When BG offers tourney structure advice, people listen. In fact, I've often seen tourney directors advertise that their structures are "BG approved". Ha!
 

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