Tourney Multi-Table Deep Stack. (1 Viewer)

[JoeBGo]

T100 structure

100-200
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200
800-1600
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
2500-5000
3000-6000
4000-8000
6000-12000
8000-16000
10000-20000
15000-30000
20000-40000
25000-50000


We used this structure for a 10 man tournament for the superbowl with 60k starting stacks and it ran 6 hours with 20 minute blinds and breaks…adding another 2 tables would definitely make tournament run longer.

 

[upNdown]

Just a consideration: For a set amount of time, the deeper the stacks the more turbo-ish the endgame will be. This goes against a common misconception that the deeper the stacks the less of a turbo it is. Time vs numbers of players are the most important factors.

To show what I mean, compare what the calculator spits out for a T100 base with 40k stacks with your results when using 100k stacks (7h for both). The 100k one will allow deeeeep play at first, but compare the last 2 hours, taking the average stack into account (the number of eliminations need to be estimated, and are most likely less in the 100k structure). Which if the two endgames is more of a turbo?

I'm not against deepstack tourneys, but one should to be aware of the effects.

This can be true, but structures can be tweaked. This calculator is suspect - it actually suggested a 275/550 level - never seen that one before.

 

[Frogzilla]

No antes?

 

[Mr Winberg]

What'ya mean, do you actually omit the classic 275/550?

 

[TomC727]

This can be true, but structures can be tweaked. This calculator is suspect - it actually suggested a 275/550 level - never seen that one before.

Yeah, it was definitely an odd round to see the 275.

 

[TomC727]

Another question.

I am confident in the rule knowledge, but just to review, must in case, does anyone have a book recommendation for poker rules.

 

[upNdown]

T100 structure

100-200
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200
800-1600
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
2500-5000
3000-6000
4000-8000
6000-12000
8000-16000
10000-20000
15000-30000
20000-40000
25000-50000


We used this structure for a 10 man tournament for the superbowl with 60k starting stacks and it ran 6 hours with 20 minute blinds and breaks…adding another 2 tables would definitely make tournament run longer.

I like this structure. I might drop the 2500/5000 if necessary. But yeah I think this is a good example of a nice balanced structure for a deep stack - it starts off more quickly, but you're really deep, so there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Another question.

I am confident in the rule knowledge, but just to review, must in case, does anyone have a book recommendation for poker rules.

https://www.pokertda.com/poker-tda-rules/

 

[TomC727]

T100 structure

100-200
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200
800-1600
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
2500-5000
3000-6000
4000-8000
6000-12000
8000-16000
10000-20000
15000-30000
20000-40000
25000-50000


We used this structure for a 10 man tournament for the superbowl with 60k starting stacks and it ran 6 hours with 20 minute blinds and breaks…adding another 2 tables would definitely make tournament run longer.

I really like this structure but I think it would put my tournament well over 8 hours, comparing it to the tournament calculator blind structure for the 7hr tournament.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

25 minute rounds...

View attachment 1129725

One more thing you might have to do on the fly since this is your first deepstack with this many people. You might actually want to freeze the blinds at some point or if you see them getting really out of control and jumping up too high too fast then insert an extra level on the fly.

I see what might be a problem from level 13-16. Levels 10-13 progress nicely then boom the BB goes from 40k to 100k from level 13 to 15.
There will be $2.5mil on the table and lets say there are 5 players left at level 15. That's an avg stack of 500k but the BB will be 100k, there is really no poker left to play, its an all in fest. So all that first 5 hours of work basically comes down to who gets dealt the best hands during level 15. You might want to freeze the blinds at level 12 or 13 and keep them for 2 levels to see how things play out. If people are still dropping you can leave them at that level for the remainder and still get done in 7 hours and at least players can actually raise and bet without going all in or fold every hand.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

I really like this structure but I think it would put my tournament well over 8 hours, comparing it to the tournament calculator blind structure for the 7hr tournament.

Agree that these levels are great but also agree that the tournament will last forever with 25 players and 100k stacks.

 

[TomC727]

One more thing you might have to do on the fly since this is your first deepstack with this many people. You might actually want to freeze the blinds at some point or if you see them getting really out of control and jumping up too high too fast then insert an extra level on the fly.

I see what might be a problem from level 13-16. Levels 10-13 progress nicely then boom the BB goes from 40k to 100k from level 13 to 15.
There will be $2.5mil on the table and lets say there are 5 players left at level 15. That's an avg stack of 500k but the BB will be 100k, there is really no poker left to play, its an all in fest. So all that first 5 hours of work basically comes down to who gets dealt the best hands during level 15. You might want to freeze the blinds at level 12 or 13 and keep them for 2 levels to see how things play out. If people are still dropping you can leave them at that level for the remainder and still get done in 7 hours and at least players can actually raise and bet without going all in or fold every hand.

I like that idea. Another option I was thinking about was inserting a smaller blind increase in between the larger increases in the later rounds. I have some time to play around with it.

 

[upNdown]

One more thing you might have to do on the fly since this is your first deepstack with this many people. You might actually want to freeze the blinds at some point or if you see them getting really out of control and jumping up too high too fast then insert an extra level on the fly.

I see what might be a problem from level 13-16. Levels 10-13 progress nicely then boom the BB goes from 40k to 100k from level 13 to 15.
There will be $2.5mil on the table and lets say there are 5 players left at level 15. That's an avg stack of 500k but the BB will be 100k, there is really no poker left to play, its an all in fest. So all that first 5 hours of work basically comes down to who gets dealt the best hands during level 15. You might want to freeze the blinds at level 12 or 13 and keep them for 2 levels to see how things play out. If people are still dropping you can leave them at that level for the remainder and still get done in 7 hours and at least players can actually raise and bet without going all in or fold every hand.

It’s a nice idea in terms of creating quality play, but I guess I’d be pretty pissed if I was one of the bigger stacks remaining, and the host just arbitrarily tossed a lifeline to the shorter stacks. And god forbid the host is still alive at that point.
I think the most fair thing to do is to stick to the blind schedule and hope for the best. And then adjust it for next time as needed.

 

[TomC727]

Possible round insertion points to slow the massive increase would be the 4000 and 7000 rounds inserted to slow the massive increase of 3000, 5000, 10000.

3000
4000
5000
7000
10000

 

[TomC727]

It’s a nice idea in terms of creating quality play, but I guess I’d be pretty pissed if I was one of the bigger stacks remaining, and the host just arbitrarily tossed a lifeline to the shorter stacks. And god forbid the host is still alive at that point.
I think the most fair thing to do is to stick to the blind schedule and hope for the best. And then adjust it for next time as needed.

I wouldn't insert a new round as the tournament was running. I would decide to do it before it started, Completely agree with above.

 

[TomC727]

So I just changed time on the calculator from 7 to 8 hours, and it literally changed the blind increases to 3k, 4k, 6k, 10k (similar to my round changes). 8hrs may be the sweet spot. I was planning on starting the food spread 1.5hrs earlier the I normally do to get the tournament started earlier, anyway.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

It’s a nice idea in terms of creating quality play, but I guess I’d be pretty pissed if I was one of the bigger stacks remaining, and the host just arbitrarily tossed a lifeline to the shorter stacks. And god forbid the host is still alive at that point.
I think the most fair thing to do is to stick to the blind schedule and hope for the best. And then adjust it for next time as needed.

Agree. I remember a tournament I was at and the last few players are the ones that asked the host if he could freeze the blinds which is how I thought it was a great idea.
I guess it all depends on the players. Maybe if you mentioned it beforehand they would be more up for it.
Honestly even for a “big stack” it would be super annoying if you played your ass off now are chip leader with half the chips in play 1.25mil and the other few players are literally forced to jam their 400k and you’re priced in to be calling them with garbage hands. You’re only one hand away from being even at 800k each now.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Here's what I do, which should work for you too. Start with what I call the "standard home game structure":
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
1000/2000
Now repeat from 150/300 but with another 0, i.e., 1500/3000, 2k/4k etc. I hope you get the picture.

If you want to have a T100 base, start with
100/200
200/400
300/600
...and then just like the above. Once you're at 1500/3000 you start the loop again but with another zero.

Regardless of which you have chosen, you now have a solid structure. The only thing left is to set the blind lengths. For that you need to know the last level. For non-ante events the "20 big blind rule" is quite common, but since you will be playing for so long I think you should use the "30 BB rule", i.e., the tournament should end no later than when there are 30 big blinds in play.

So if you do 100k stacks and there are 25 players, that's 2.5 million in play. At the level 40k/80k there will be about 30 BBs in play, so it should end thereabouts.

How many levels? If T25 is the base, there will be 22 levels from 25/50 to 40k/80k.

If you want to play 7 hours excluding breaks, that means 420 minutes divided by 22, which is 19 minutes per level.

For a T100 base starting at 100/200, there will be 18 levels to 40k/80k. That means 23 minutes per level. (This also shows my point earlier that the deeper the stacks the more of a turbo the end game is).

So really all you need to do is

1. Decide the total duration, decide the breaks etc to deduce the total effective playing time: T.
2. Estimate the total chips in play (which is way less important than people think! If twice as many show up that just means 2 more levels).
3. Use the 20 or 30 BB rule to estimate the last level.
4. Count the levels.
5. Divide T with the number of levels to get the level time.
6. Profit!

 

[Mr Winberg]

Sorry @TomC727 , the structure was erroneous when you "liked" it, please look again now.

 

[TomC727]

Sorry @TomC727 , the structure was erroneous when you "liked" it, please look again now.

Thanks for that. I probably wouldn't have noticed.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Thanks for that. I probably wouldn't have noticed.

Questions like "which structure should I use for XYZ" are quite common. Answering with "well here's a structure" is like giving a hungry man a fish. In this post I'm instead trying to teach you to fish, I encourage you to dive into it:

Here's what I do, which should work for you too. Start with what I call the "standard home game structure":
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
1000/2000
Now repeat from 150/300 but with another 0, i.e., 1500/3000, 2k/4k etc. I hope you get the picture.

If you want to have a T100 base, start with
100/200
200/400
300/600
...and then just like the above. Once you're at 1500/3000 you start the loop again but with another zero.

Regardless of which you have chosen, you now have a solid structure. The only thing left is to set the blind lengths. For that you need to know the last level. For non-ante events the "20 big blind rule" is quite common, but since you will be playing for so long I think you should use the "30 BB rule", i.e., the tournament should end no later than when there are 30 big blinds in play.

So if you do 100k stacks and there are 25 players, that's 2.5 million in play. At the level 40k/80k there will be about 30 BBs in play, so it should end thereabouts.

How many levels? If T25 is the base, there will be 22 levels from 25/50 to 40k/80k.

If you want to play 7 hours excluding breaks, that means 420 minutes divided by 22, which is 19 minutes per level.

For a T100 base starting at 100/200, there will be 18 levels to 40k/80k. That means 23 minutes per level. (This also shows my point earlier that the deeper the stacks the more of a turbo the end game is).

So really all you need to do is

1. Decide the total duration, decide the breaks etc to deduce the total effective playing time: T.
2. Estimate the total chips in play (which is way less important than people think! If twice as many show up that just means 2 more levels).
3. Use the 20 or 30 BB rule to estimate the last level.
4. Count the levels.
5. Divide T with the number of levels to get the level time.
6. Profit!

If you do, you'll be able to create structures for any kind of scenario!

 

[TomC727]

This is the structure I’ll probably go with.

T100.

 

[TomC727]

17. 40K/80K
18. 50K/100K
19. 70K/140K
20. 100K/200K
21. 200K/400K
22. 300K/600K
23. 400K/800K
24. 600K/1200K
25. 800K/1600K

 

[TomC727]

Break after Round 21, too. Forgot to put that in there.