Lockdown in vegas, electricity and airconditioning (1 Viewer)

[WedgeRock]

after roughly a year, it's saved us $1000, and the total cost of the system (after rebates was ~$18,000)....
We're in it for the environmental impact more than the fiscal......

That's noble of you, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. But most people aren't going to spend $18,000 to break-even after 18 years...

It isn't just the financial payback but also the ability to have some independence when it comes to power supply.

I listened to a podcast buy a guy here who went solar... He wasn't quite breaking even because he wasn't generating enough power during the day of offset the usage at night... But he was getting closer to zero consumption.

One thing that surprised me, though, was that because he was still in the grid (so he could sell daylight power back to the energy company, but also because he didn't have a battery onsite to store power, which was another $10,000), when the utility's power went out, he went dark because if he was still generating power, he would energize the lines the crews were working on.

So he has this expensive solar system on his roof and yet still sits in the dark during a power outage...

 

[nitzilla]

That's noble of you, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. But most people aren't going to spend $18,000 to break-even after 18 years...

There's a lot to it, but it's not $1000/yr into 18 years, as the price of electricity gradually increases, it's going to be closer to ~12 years for the payoff, but after that, it's ~15 more years of 'free' energy.
Definitely the long game.......

 

[Lemonzest]

That's noble of you, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. But most people aren't going to spend $18,000 to break-even after 18 years...


I listened to a podcast buy a guy here who went solar... He wasn't quite breaking even because he wasn't generating enough power during the day of offset the usage at night... But he was getting closer to zero consumption.

One thing that surprised me, though, was that because he was still in the grid (so he could sell daylight power back to the energy company, but also because he didn't have a battery onsite to store power, which was another $10,000), when the utility's power went out, he went dark because if he was still generating power, he would energize the lines the crews were working on.

So he has this expensive solar system on his roof and yet still sits in the dark during a power outage...

Yeah there needs to be some thought that goes into implementation. Batteries and power storage has long been a problem with solar. If I was going to do it and lived in an area with a lot of sun I would probably go with Tesla's Solar Roof.

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

I haven't looked into the details recently as this came out a while ago. However, I know Elon isn't stupid and he wouldn't try to push a product like this if there wasn't a clear value proposition for the end user. IIRC the Tesla roof can also be used in conjunction with a battery that helps to charge your Tesla which is a pretty cool idea albeit not cheap when you factor in also buying a Tesla.

But gong back to the roof itself, I would much rather go with a company like Tesla on something like this since you will get support from a big company that cares about their reputation. I think the roof itself is very good quality and comparable to a roof replacement using standard materials.

 

[WedgeRock]

Always wondered if you re-shingle before installing a solar roof...

 

[moose]

A lot of the heat load comes from the people, machines, computers etc, so even without adjusting the thermostat, companies are saving on their electricity bills through reduced usage.

 

[One Eyed Dollar]

I have a friend who went with Tesla for her solar panels, and it was quite a struggle. Everything got installed quickly and they set up the battery, but then it was time to connect to the grid and turn it on, and nobody cared to move the process along with Xcel, our local utility. She had to personally hound Xcel for a year until it was finally activated.

I've read some articles that the local solar providers are doing better than the big chains because they can focus on the bureaucracy of their own small market, and it's hard for the big chains to manage the differences all over the country. Other than some efficiencies in their quoting systems and big buying power, they don't have many advantages. I went with a big company that did a partnership with the Sierra Club, and they went out of business a few years later, so my panels are now owned by a different company.

Speaking of electric cars, I think this is an interesting article about how competitive they were with gas cars back in the early 1900s:
https://history.denverlibrary.org/news/brief-brilliant-reign-fritchle-colorados-first-electric-car

The Fillmore Auditorium in Denver where I've seen many concerts was originally built as a manufacturing plant for this electric car company.

 

[chkmte]

Here’s how I look at it.

If I had $20,000 cash laying around to buy solar, I’d rather invest that money and realize an 8% return every year as doing so would cover two-thirds of my electric bill, come year two.

Here’s the issue. I don’t have $20,000 laying around and to finance $20,000 at 8+% APR completely reduces any savings - even over the course of 20 years.

So, financially I just don’t get it.

 

[Poker Zombie]

There will be enough of a lull in the pandemic during the summer months for people to be back to work by then. The question is how bad will the second wave be in the fall and winter.

Fall and winter shouldn't see a massive upswing, as warm/hot locations (Panama, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc.) have not been spared from Covid. Sure, little kids in school are a cesspool of cross contamination, but the ease with which this disease has spread, I don't see Fall/winter to be as much of a spike as one more uptick.

On the other hand, people may be developing antibodies that will basically end the threat - as long as it doesn't mutate into Covid-20.

 

[Lemonzest]

Here’s how I look at it.

If I had $20,000 cash laying around to buy solar, I’d rather invest that money and realize an 8% return every year as doing so would cover two-thirds of my electric bill, come year two.

Here’s the issue. I don’t have $20,000 laying around and to finance $20,000 at 8+% APR completely reduces any savings - even over the course of 20 years.

So, financially I just don’t get it.

This is perfectly reasonable. When the Tesla Solar Roof was first released and Elon was hyping it I think his angle was if you are going to spend 10k on a roof anyway then buy a solar roof which will last much longer and also provide you with "free" energy at the same time.

Admittedly, I don't know much about it and would do a lot of research and crunching of numbers if I was actually going to pull the trigger. I just remember when it was released it seemed like a really cool idea.

As someone else mentioned, I would for sure be interested in checking out any local providers as they would be more attuned to working with the local grid/power companies and also be available for support.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Fall and winter shouldn't see a massive upswing, as warm/hot locations (Panama, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc.) have not been spared from Covid. Sure, little kids in school are a cesspool of cross contamination, but the ease with which this disease has spread, I don't see Fall/winter to be as much of a spike as one more uptick.

On the other hand, people may be developing antibodies that will basically end the threat - as long as it doesn't mutate into Covid-20.

The CDC director, Robert Redfield, just said that the second wave could be worse than the one we are experiencing now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...virus-cdc-director-robert-redfield/index.html

As far as antibodies ending the threat is concerned, this isn't going to happen unfortunately. The CDC has updated their estimates for R0 this week based on new findings, and they now estimate that it is about 5.7, not 2.4 like they said earlier. This means the virus is far more transmissable than we previously thought. The percentage of the population needed for herd immunity to win out is inversely related to this value (specifically %needed = 1-1/R0). So with an R0 of 5.7, we would need 82% of the population to be immune for it to die off. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen without a vaccine. We likely have a very long road ahead. Fortunately, the virus also appears to be far, far less deadly than we had previously thought as well.

 

[MaxB]

We bought solar panels a few years ago ... right before the government kickbacks ended (they paid for 45% of the cost). At the time, the break even point was 7 yrs 3 months at the current cost of electricity. Of course the price of power has gone way up so the break even is a little over 6 yrs from install. I haven't paid a bill in almost 3 yrs other than the line fee of $12/mo (because we don't use battery back up at night). We also get an energy credit kickback every 3 months that I pay towards the loan (2.5%).

 

[pluto]

@MaxB, looks great! what is that an 8-10kW system?

 

[RainmanTrail]

Living in CA, it's a no brainer to go with solar. We pay about 40¢ per kwh here if we're pulling electricity from the grid, and that's our lower tier rate. If you have a pool or an electric car, anything that puts you in a higher tier, then you're paying upwards if 60¢ per kwh. As a comparison, many places in the country are paying between 9¢ to 13¢ for their electricity. We also get a lot of sun here, so energy production is very high with solar panels.

I did the math on buying a system a little over a year ago and decided to get it installed. I paid $27k for my system, and it will pay for itself within about 5 years after the 30% tax rebate. I'm saving about $300 per month since I have an electric car. Like I said, it's a no brainer here. It also increases the value of your home by almost as much as it costs to install it. My system will probably pay me back 5 or 6x over the life of it. I didn't get a loan though for my system. I just used my gambol winnings lol.