Large & Small Crown hotstamping (2 Viewers)

David Spragg

David Spragg

Flush
Site Vendor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
1,756
Reaction score
4,549
Location
UK
As many of my comments seem to be lost within the previous threads, I will summarise it here.

The Large Crown tests were not 100% conclusive but did look positive. However we will have to confirm this when we go into the first production run as we would also need to establish the area size that can be stamped.

The Small Crown is not stampable with our equipment. Obviously it has to be possible, probably with a non-industrial machine, so those of you out there that do your own should contact me to discuss. Just for reference here are a few test examples using a full size stamp. Left hand pic is with the settings used for A mold, then gradually ramping it up a touch until the 4th scan just about has the full hot stamp. By this time the lettering is merging together, surface of the chip is badly affected by the heat etc. One more stage up (wasn't worth showing a blank chip) and the foil vaporised.

scrownHS.jpeg
 
David Spragg said:
As many of my comments seem to be lost within the previous threads, I will summarise it here.

The Large Crown tests were not 100% conclusive but did look positive. However we will have to confirm this when we go into the first production run as we would also need to establish the area size that can be stamped.

The Small Crown is not stampable with our equipment. Obviously it has to be possible, probably with a non-industrial machine, so those of you out there that do your own should contact me to discuss. Just for reference here are a few test examples using a full size stamp. Left hand pic is with the settings used for A mold, then gradually ramping it up a touch until the 4th scan just about has the full hot stamp. By this time the lettering is merging together, surface of the chip is badly affected by the heat etc. One more stage up (wasn't worth showing a blank chip) and the foil vaporised.

View attachment 210118
Click to expand...
Is it possible to have medal alignment with hotstamping? Not minding the extra time.
 
David Spragg said:
As many of my comments seem to be lost within the previous threads, I will summarise it here.

The Large Crown tests were not 100% conclusive but did look positive. However we will have to confirm this when we go into the first production run as we would also need to establish the area size that can be stamped.

The Small Crown is not stampable with our equipment. Obviously it has to be possible, probably with a non-industrial machine, so those of you out there that do your own should contact me to discuss. Just for reference here are a few test examples using a full size stamp. Left hand pic is with the settings used for A mold, then gradually ramping it up a touch until the 4th scan just about has the full hot stamp. By this time the lettering is merging together, surface of the chip is badly affected by the heat etc. One more stage up (wasn't worth showing a blank chip) and the foil vaporised.

View attachment 210118
Click to expand...

These were my exact same results when I tried to stamp TRK blanks. It may be the mould. The slightly convex face is the killer.

I’ve had it with batches of T moulds too but I found that often one side took a stamp great and the other was a like above.

David,did you try other colours? I’ve always found that black (from ASM previously) is the hardest of your colours to stamp consistently.
 
monkeydog said:
These were my exact same results when I tried to stamp TRK blanks. It may be the mould. The slightly convex face is the killer.

I’ve had it with batches of T moulds too but I found that often one side took a stamp great and the other was a like above.

David,did you try other colours? I’ve always found that black (from ASM previously) is the hardest of your colours to stamp consistently.
Click to expand...

Those tests were dark green. Yes we tried a number of colours, others were worse.
 
Is it possible to stamp twice? Once with the outside lettering and then with a smaller die to do the denom in the center?
 
The A-Mold has all options available, hot-stamps, Standard or AC Oversize or Grand inlay choices, always available makes it the best seller mold, right?
 
I believe the issue here is the center of the blank is forming with a concave center. I've seen this happen with some of the blanks that have a large inlay area like the hourglass blank. Both the hourglass and the no-mold (textured) didn't used to stamp like that, but suddenly they started to, and that's what I see happening here. It forces an over-stamp to get the center to show up, and it shouldn't be a surprise to mention the blank would have to be scraped to make the chip stack post-stamp. Something is causing the center of the chip to contract and crate that concave profile. If that happens they'll be really hard to hotstamp.

Inversely the H-mold has the opposite problem. The chip forms with a convex profile in the inlay area. That's why that blank causes so many "spinners".
 
monkeydog said:
These were my exact same results when I tried to stamp TRK blanks. It may be the mould. The slightly convex face is the killer.

I’ve had it with batches of T moulds too but I found that often one side took a stamp great and the other was a like above.

David,did you try other colours? I’ve always found that black (from ASM previously) is the hardest of your colours to stamp consistently.
Click to expand...

My observations when stamping original TRK's was the actual chip material. They were excessively hard to stamp and very resistant to heat. It's almost like they have a dash of rubber thrown in.

True, color does traditionally have a lot to do with how well the chip stamps. I agree completely that back is typically a difficult one to get consistent. So are the darker red colors. Yellows and greens seem to be the easiest. Try with a gray, traditional yellow, light green or light blue.
 
If the die could be made slightly convex to match the concavity of the chip, would this theoretically solve the problem and make them stampable?

Another thought? If you had a stamp like the Atlantic club, where the outer ring was one stamp and the denom a second stamp would that help elivate the problem?

Obviously twice the amount of work and the possibility of alignment consistency issues.

I really want a hot stamped s crown solid tourney set.
 
doughboy63 said:
If the die could be made slightly convex to match the concavity of the chip, would this theoretically solve the problem and make them stampable?
Click to expand...

Dies are etched so that isn't possible. Plus it is impossible to get the stamp 100% dead center in the middle of the chip every time so that is going to affect it.
Lettering stamps are made up of 2,3,4 small dies put together. You would have to have a set for left position, another for middle, another for right. So just for one font that is 300+ dies = $15k!!
It may be possible to shaped a die after it is made but we don't have any spares.
As I said elsewhere we have far higher priorities right now and can't just spend money to test if something works. We already spent a large amount on the molds and conversion work.
 
Thanks for the reply David. I was more throwing out ideas geared towards the secondary market of hand pressing not your industrial scale.
 
doughboy63 said:
Thanks for the reply David. I was more throwing out ideas geared towards the secondary market of hand pressing not your industrial scale.
Click to expand...

Possible it will work.
We would need a larger sample of blank chips to measure to make sure the surfaces are consistent though. By the time we realised this was an issue we had already removed the mold.
 
Klobberer said:
Why can't a 3D die be done on a cnc machine?
Click to expand...

Not accurate enough unless you want to employ a supplier with a $600,000 machine and pay $2k for a die. *g*
Die has to be brass to enable good enough heat transference and brass distorts ever so fractionally when CNC cut.
Lettering is often too close together to be cut that way anyway.
 
Pressure, temp and dwell time.

I think less pressure and more dwell time might be the trick. I only had a few minutes to mess with it before I had to leave town for work. I’ll be back on it this weekend.
 
More dwell time usually makes it dig in further and dissolves the foil, although all foils are different and I have no idea what you have.
 
At first I was only getting partial stamps, when I added more dwell time and lowered the pressure I was able to get a full stamp. It seemed easier to stamp the lcrown vs the scrown.

I’ll see how it goes this weekend and keep you posted.
 
Those are hot. If the die is brass, intelligent application of nitric acid could theoretically do some thin 3-d reshaping of the elevated surfaces. I am aware that the scrowns are a little concave so a perfect die would be a little convex.
 
The concave shape is not consistent across chips though. Difference of a few thou screws things up. I already had convex dies made before to try.
Another problem is that the 'elevated surfaces' taper to their thinnest point so they get a touch distorted if you mess with them.
Pat's 2 test chips were better than anything I managed though and I burnt through hundreds!
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

TRKingChips
  • Locked
SOLD T. R. King - TRK - Small Crown - Chip from a mold - Manufacturing Process
Replies
7
Views
378
TRKingChips
TRKingChips
toothpic
  • Locked
Found TRK small crown chips to be used as a frac
Replies
8
Views
474
toothpic
toothpic
TRKingChips
  • Locked
SOLD TRK - Small Crown - Chips from a mold used during the manufacturing process
Replies
8
Views
699
AlbinoDragon
AlbinoDragon
G
  • Locked
Cancelled 350+ singles for sale: Small Crown, THC, RHC, limited editions
2
Replies
34
Views
1K
BryantRC
BryantRC
TheChipRoom
  • Locked
SOLD Hollywood Secondary Chip Sale Thread
2 3 4
Replies
104
Views
13K
Rakrul
Rakrul
Back
Top Bottom