Is this Hyperbole or not? (8 Viewers)

[HiveKueen]

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2025...eg_Lk7VkrBV_VPx14Q_aem_qoD3qIRQu4aQadEM2cIfQg

 

[upNdown]

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2025...eg_Lk7VkrBV_VPx14Q_aem_qoD3qIRQu4aQadEM2cIfQg

Not at all. Think about a high roller type. If a guy is in for $5,000,000 and out for $5,500,000, he’s earned $500,000 on the year. But if he can only write off 90% of his losses, that’s 90% of $5,000,000, which is $4.5 million. So even though he only profited $500,000 on the year, he’s paying income tax on $1,000,000.
That’s not good.

 

[HiveKueen]

Will this kill poker in the US? How long do we think it will take to get this repealed!?

 

[ThinkingFold]

At least one member of congress seems to be trying to address it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1940421608201744573

 

[Taghkanic]

Not at all. Think about a high roller type. If a guy is in for $5,000,000 and out for $5,500,000, he’s earned $500,000 on the year. But if he can only write off 90% of his losses, that’s 90% of $5,000,000, which is $4.5 million. So even though he only profited $500,000 on the year, he’s paying income tax on $1,000,000.
That’s not good.

I mean… On the face of it, this seems to suck. But:

(a) How many people in the entire U.S. would this meaningfully impact, really?

(b) Depending on a player’s tax bracket, this means maybe an extra $75K in taxes. Sounds like a lot… But if you’re grossing $5.5M in winnings, I dunno, maybe you can handle it.

(c) I have seen some pushback that says that true pros with sharp accountants likely will be able to avoid or at least mitigate the increase, by itemizing deductions and using various forms of LLC ju-jitsu.

It’s rarely big earners who actually pay a lot of tax, whatever the rules appear to say. There are endless loophole and workarounds… Warren Buffett famously noted that his secretary pays more taxes than him.

 

[doctorchips]

Genuinely curious about the logic here. Lets say you're an average gambler. You win 15k and lose 14k in the year. So 1k net win.

You can only deduct 90% of the 14k loss? 12,600.

So you're taxed as if you won 17,600? Wouldn't this be more in tax than someone's actual net winnings?

 

[Pinkdan]

 

[Littleluck55]

It’s a dumb part of the bill for sure, but something like 90% of filers use the standard deduction. Most people don’t claim their winnings/losses now.

A big one caught in this is when you get a tax form for a $1200 slot win. You can only deduct 90% losses so not sure how you can get around that.

 

[allforcharity]

I think many of you might be on the wrong side of the math here.

 

[allforcharity]

Genuinely curious about the logic here. Lets say you're an average gambler. You win 15k and lose 14k in the year. So 1k net win.

You can only deduct 90% of the 14k loss? 12,600.

So you're taxed as if you won 17,600? Wouldn't this be more in tax than someone's actual net winnings?

No, you're taxed on $2400.

$15000 win - $12600 deductible loss = $2400. Even though you only pocketed $1000.

 

[doctorchips]

No, you're taxed on $2400.

Even though you only pocketed $1000.

So that still sounds kind of... not great.

 

[allforcharity]

So that still sounds kind of... not great.

I'm not saying it's not fundamentally flawed. The math is just the math.

 

[Taghkanic]

$15000 win - $12600 deductible loss = $2400. Even though you only pocketed $1000.

So you add $2,400 to your income for the year.

Presumably your other income is… a lot more than $2,400.

Now say you pay 25% on your total income (pretending that you have no other deductions). You pay $600 on the $2,400, instead of $250 on the $1,000.

That’s an extra $350.

Yeah, it cuts way into your meager profits. But are you quitting gambling over $350? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[merkong]

People pay taxes? Weird.

 

[doctorchips]

So you add $2,400 to your income for the year.

But you only won 1,000 dollars (in the scenario above).

So this means that someone would have to pay tax on losses?

 

[smashed_potato]

@Taghkanic so far the most compelling argument that “this is terrible for the reC player” is poker doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If the high rollers get a hair cut the shit rolls down hill fast, example Doug Polk gave was how many reG players become unprofitable at 90%. What will these players do? How will this affect the business models of WSOP, WPT, GGPoker etc…

Poker and another forms of gaming are part of an ecosystem that we all benefit from with various inputs. Hard to tell if this leads to a major cooling period once the bill takes hold.

Personally I think this is not great, will it stop the rec player? No… in the short term, but maybe yes if business models become disrupted and things become harder to play. Friction is never a good thing to be adding to degenerate hobbies. Lol

 

[ekricket]

We’ve got a pretty big sample set here - how many people do you know that have actually claimed gambling losses on their taxes? I’m sure it’s not 0, but I’d be surprised if it was more than a handful.

 

[Frogzilla]

I claimed a decent amount last year (80ish?) but it sure seems like no one claims anything. 8k extra income so 3k taxes. Not nothing but it isn’t the end of the world. Honestly for me it might mean very few trips to Oklahoma though. Harder to justify this plus the gambling antes plus the state income tax (both the amount and the frustration of dealing with them)

We’ve got a pretty big sample set here - how many people do you know that have actually claimed gambling losses on their taxes? I’m sure it’s not 0, but I’d be surprised if it was more than a handful.

100%, a shockingly high number of people seem to think getting a W2G is what makes a gambling win taxable.

 

[smashed_potato]

I claimed a decent amount last year (80ish?) but it sure seems like no one claims anything. 8k extra income so 3k taxes. Not nothing but it isn’t the end of the world. Honestly for me it might mean very few trips to Oklahoma though. Harder to justify this plus the gambling antes plus the state income tax (both the amount and the frustration of dealing with them)



100%, a shockingly high number of people seem to think getting a W2G is what makes a gambling win taxable.

How does that apply to say big tourneys though? Isn’t all that tracked and reported from the casino side? I know the average job isn’t on the WSOP circuit but there are the regs that events really rely on, no?

 

[Frogzilla]

How does that apply to say big tourneys though? Isn’t all that tracked and reported from the casino side? I know the average job isn’t on the WSOP circuit but there are the regs that events really rely on, no?

You’re required to report and pay taxes on any poker income from any session

Poker tournaments with a win (net of buyin) over $5000 also get a W2G filed on your behalf.

 

[ekricket]

I don’t file any gambling losses, and from the confusion and math and suppositions above I’d say most responders to this thread don’t either, because they are upfront about not knowing anything about it.

You can only deduct gambling losses against wins. So if you won $5000, but lost $6000 in another session you can only claim $5000 of the loss because that’s how much you won.
I’ll say it again, under the current law you can only deduct losses up to the amount of your wins. If you go to the casino and lose $5000 you can’t claim any deduction because you don’t have any wins.
It was designed to help offset gains with losses, not to have a bunch of people filing “losses” as it was before. The casino does not file “loss” forms, so nobody knows what you “lost”, it’s an honor system. And everybody cheats in an honor system, that’s why they limit your amount of loss deduction by the amounts you win.

IMHO under the new law, using the example above, if you win $5000 in one session and lost $6000 in another, you can claim your deduction - but only 90% of it. So in this case you can only use $5400 of deduction against your $5000 win and you are still ok, just a shitty gambler.
There is no point in reporting more losses than you win, but this law may make it become a point to report 10% more losses than your winnings

Tax or no tax, if your losses are more than your wins (the only way to avoid the taxes on your wins) then you should just quit calling it gambling and just straight up call it losing.

I think if it’s your “job” to gamble then you may be able to deduct expenses as well.

But deducting anything means detailed records, and I mean pretty detailed. Like dates, times, length of session, casino names, etc…… kinda like a truckers log.

 

[ekricket]

“In plain terms, if someone wins $100,000 but also loses $100,000, for tax purposes, it will be treated as if only $90,000 of those losses occurred. That means the gambler owes tax on $10,000 that they never actually profited from.”

https://www.gamblingnews.com/news/new-tax-rules-could-hit-gamblers-hard-in-big-beautiful-bill/

No professional gambler is losing more than they win, nor are they losing exactly the amount that they win. Neither of those cases are sustainable at all if you think about it for a little. They’d make more money and spend less hours working the drive thru at McDonald’s if that was the case.

When you win 3mil and only have 25,000 in losses - well those losses aren’t helping you at even 200% of deductibility.

A bunch of hullabaloo about nothing that affects almost nobody that’s making a true 100% living from gambling. They are already paying shitloads of taxes and this isn’t going to affect them at all. Kinda like a bunch of noise about tariffs, I’m still looking for that surefire destruction that was going to kill the entire universes financial markets. Give it another two weeks and this won’t even be news anymore, it will be something else absolutely sensational and earth shattering like it always is with people looking for drama.

 

[suchj0sh]

“In plain terms, if someone wins $100,000 but also loses $100,000, for tax purposes, it will be treated as if only $90,000 of those losses occurred. That means the gambler owes tax on $10,000 that they never actually profited from.”

https://www.gamblingnews.com/news/new-tax-rules-could-hit-gamblers-hard-in-big-beautiful-bill/

No professional gambler is losing more than they win, nor are they losing exactly the amount that they win. Neither of those cases are sustainable at all if you think about it for a little. They’d make more money and spend less hours working the drive thru at McDonald’s if that was the case.

When you win 3mil and only have 25,000 in losses - well those losses aren’t helping you at even 200% of deductibility.

A bunch of hullabaloo about nothing that affects almost nobody that’s making a true 100% living from gambling. They are already paying shitloads of taxes and this isn’t going to affect them at all. Kinda like a bunch of noise about tariffs, I’m still looking for that surefire destruction that was going to kill the entire universes financial markets. Give it another two weeks and this won’t even be news anymore, it will be something else absolutely sensational and earth shattering like it always is with people looking for drama.

This was my thought. The rec that gets a massive score is never losing enough for loss deduction to matter anyways.

 

[Frogzilla]

I would not be surprised to see this have a noticeable effect on Americans playing the low ROI stuff like Triton, PokerGO cup, WSOP high rollers

 

[Gus]

Rather than think about 'deducting losses' I think it's much clearer to track "total won" and "total lost."

People aren't obsessing about deducting losses, just as employers aren't obsessing about deducting employee wages. It's the balance of total income vs total expenses that matters.

If businesses could only count 90% of their expenses against revenue it'd be a huuuuuge deal. Most mature businesses only net 3-10% profit annually, and this kind of tax treatment would be devastating.

Not sure how much total cash professional gamblers are moving around annually. If you're playing high stakes cash + tournament, and are buying action on other players, and hey you also like some sports gambling and goofy prop bets on the golf course... If you're genuinely moving $10m/year in gambling, swinging wildly up and down, this new change could easily result in an extra $250k owed even if you were flat for the year.

Big thing I don't know - can gambling losses offset normal non-gambling income? I doubt it... a year-end $10k loss at the slots is probably not a thing you can write off to reduce your total income that year unless you have substantiated gambling income to place it against

 

[ekricket]

There is a ton of FREE information in the internets about this and many other things. Education is much better than musing with incomplete information and hearsay. I’d believe my tax preparer that files itemized deductions a lot more than randos on this site.

Any change to anything is going to kill everything anymore it seems. I heard a story about a chicken squacking about the sky falling when I was younger, seems like that’s about the only thing that never changes.

 

[Frogzilla]

Big thing I don't know - can gambling losses offset normal non-gambling income?

No

 

[Taghkanic]

But you only won 1,000 dollars (in the scenario above).

So this means that someone would have to pay tax on losses?

Apples and oranges. You don’t pay $2,400, you pay tax on $2,400 in income (ex. 25% = $600). Before the change you’d pay on $1,000 in income (= $250).

 

[ktran]

You also got to think about the long term. "Small" changes like this is how they take advantage of more over time without upsetting/up roaring with little resistance at the moment. Making a big change all at once will definitely cause more attention. With the whatever mentality and all the distractions, it will slide even more over time. Next time it would be a little more and the next.

What they are taking is already generous enough especially when you're taking all the risk too.

 

[Taghkanic]

If you're genuinely moving $10m/year in gambling, swinging wildly up and down, this new change could easily result in an extra $250k owed even if you were flat for the year.

I would argue that if you’re moving $10M per year, and consider yourself a professional, $250K shouldn’t be enough to cause you to quit. Unless you’re not very good.

I don’t think the new regs were well thought through. Seems arbitrary and inconsistent with other tax laws. I just don’t think this is going to “end high stakes gambling” etc.

My guess is that if left as-is a lot of pros move to private high stakes cash games run by hosts who don’t report to the IRS. Then they can complain that 20% rake is killing private cash.