Is it an investment? (5 Viewers)

[Davism72]

Seems like there's a really active buying and selling scene here. Do you all consider your collections investments? Do you expect their value to appreciate over time, or do you just expect to pay a premium for ownership and expect any sales to be at a loss?

Just wondering. Easier to sell the hobby if it's not sunk cost.

 

[Forty4]

@DrStrange has had a few great write ups about this point.

I certainly don’t consider it an investment everything I’ve sold has been at a small loss nothing to concern me with. But I’m also not buying chips that are above my threshold.

 

[Davism72]

I'd like to read what he's written. Have a link?

 

[allforcharity]

No. It's not a good vehicle for investment. But, dependent on what you buy/own/keep, it has some chance of retaining its value.

Treat this as a hobby. The enjoyment you get out of pursuing your hobby is the best sort of dividend that it pays. If you don't enjoy it, liquidate and get out as fast as you can.

 

[hod]

If you ‘invested’ wisely you’d have made a pile of cash, however most of the big changes that increased chip values either couldn’t have been predicted, or the value of the increase was much greater than would reasonably been foreseen, imho.

 

[trigs]

I buy them too play with them. No way I'm keeping chips sitting in a case just for show. Maybe I'd consider selling some if the prices suddenly skyrocketed but even then I'd be reluctant to sell I think.

 

[Davism72]

Certainly I understand that it's a hobby first. Not here looking to get rich. But other collection-based hobbies can pay for themselves, I'd think.

 

[arch3r]

I could probably sell my PCA secondaries at a pretty good profit, if I chose to. The rest of my sets, I would probably break even or loose some on. But I did not acquire any of them for the purpose of making money.

This is just my expensive hobby.

 

[glom]

I have owned 2 paulson sets in my life. Bought both at a good price and sold both when prices were up. I have made a little money on my chips. Not enough to consider it investing, but I'd say the over all loss you might take is going to be very small if you don't buy chips that are seeing short term spikes in pricing due to fad or newness to market when their prices are spiking if you're buying real chips and not plastic or china clays.

 

[Davism72]

not plastic or china clays.

Wait, China Clay is derogatory? I thought it was just a type of clay chip -- like a higher-end variety.

 

[Rhodeman77]

@BGinGA likes to acutely say that if you are buying the right chips at the right price you are essentially renting them for free as you will be able to get your money back pretty easily. Good quality casino chips will hold their value pretty well. Cheaper stuff is a money pit.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Do you all consider your collections investments?

I buy high and sell low. Seriously though, I have sold lots of sets, including several Paulsons and one TRK, always for less than I paid.

 

[Lemonzest]

Wait, China Clay is derogatory? I thought it was just a type of clay chip -- like a higher-end variety.

China Clay are fine they are just a lower quality product than say Paulsons, TRK, or other casino quality chips.

People who take collecting seriously will guffaw at China Clay chips. The same way a serious car collector would laugh at a Ford Fiesta.

 

[Davism72]

Cheaper stuff is a money pit.

Is that any non-Paulson? Honest question.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Is that any non-Paulson? Honest question.

There are other non-Paulson chips that hold value. TRK for sure!!! BCC as well, even customs form ASM/CPC if you buy them second hand at the right price will still hold their value.

 

[BGinGA]

Cheaper stuff is a money pit.

Is that any non-Paulson? Honest question.

No, and even some Paulson chips (typically used-condition) don't hold value as well as others.

Chips that lately tend to hold (or increase in) value over time: excellent-condition Paulson casino chips (particularly older THC-mold leaded versions), TRK casino chips, some 43mm ceramic hybrid designs.

Chips that will almost certainly lose value immediately upon receipt: almost all custom-design chips (regardless of mfg or initial cost), most china clays, most ceramics, and all low-end budget plastic chips (slugged or not).

Generally speaking: the more you can afford to spend initially, the better the chances of being able to get most or all of your money back. Hence the "leasing-high-end-chips-for-free" mantra. Even if sold for small loss, the long-term cost of high-end chip ownership is much lower than what a sunk cost into a cheaper set would have been (with limited resale value or options).

 

[gopherblue]

Lol, I’m not sure mine could ever be called “an investment.” To be an investment, I’d have to be willing to sell them!

And my Riversides aren’t exactly liquid, if you know what I mean.

 

[FDLmold]

I'm happy if I can pay my "rental fee" then get it all back when I choose to "rent" other chips.

 

[Ethan]

TLDR: They are not an investment. But I love them anyway.

If chips aren’t appreciating by at least 100% every 7 years on average it is a poor investment. On average I’d agree that chips will hold their value. But there is sunk cost from tied up funds not appreciating in more traditional vehicles.

 

[Davism72]

But there is sunk cost from tied up funds not appreciating in more traditional vehicles.

This is a good point.

Chips that will almost certainly lose value immediately upon receipt: almost all custom-design chips

Makes sense, but that's too bad. Been here for a week or two now and I think I'm most drawn to a set of CPC customs.

 

[Darson]

Supply and demand. If there is high demand and short supply, the price will increase. Since Paulson don't make chips for the home consumer any more, their prices have gone up. Supply has dried up yet there is still demand.

If Paulson start making custom poker chips for the home market again, then even those highly valued chips will crater in value. Not my idea of a smart investment.

 

[Ethan]

But what you lose in economic value is far offset by the sentimental value that customs provide (so I imagine!) @Davism72

 

[BGinGA]

Makes sense, but that's too bad. Been here for a week or two now and I think I'm most drawn to a set of CPC customs.

The real draw of customs isn't the resale value, but rather purchase of a personalized life-long item that may even be passed down to future generations. Just make sure it's exactly what you want (and hard to predict).

 

[BGinGA]

If Paulson start making custom poker chips for the home market again, then even those highly valued chips will crater in value.

Not according to history. When GPI re-entered the home market with Paulson chips, there were no major hits to prices of existing "highly-valued' chips whatsoever. At the time, it was just another niche filled in the chip market.

However, if GPI started remaking their previously marketed home-game chips, those older sets (currently selling for 2-3 times what the new chips would likely cost) will almost certainly drop in value. But the effect on other chip prices will be minimal.

 

[MykL316]

Money I’ve made from selling chips, whether it be at a slight loss or a slight profit (mostly loss) usually goes towards buying more chips. It’s a revolving door for me.
And for what it’s worth, I only buy chips to play with them, never just to look at them.

 

[gopherblue]

If Paulson start making custom poker chips for the home market again, then even those highly valued chips will crater in value. Not my idea of a smart investment.

That is the double-edged sword that is TRK, in an obtuse way. Virtually no chance they’ll ever be made again, so as a result they’ll likely hold their value. But it also means acquiring them is a spendy endeavor.

 

[arch3r]

That is the double-edged sword that is TRK, in an obtuse way. Virtually no chance they’ll ever be made again, so as a result they’ll likely hold their value. But it also means acquiring them is a spendy endeavor.

Not real TRKs, but with CPC offering large and small crown molds now, people who like them but can't afford a true mint TRK set, can now get a pretty close proximity to the real thing. More than good enough for the casual chipper for not a huge expense. But like @BGinGA said, customs are definitely not an investment for resale.

 

[FCCDAD]

Seems like there's a really active buying and selling scene here. Do you all consider your collections investments? Do you expect their value to appreciate over time, or do you just expect to pay a premium for ownership and expect any sales to be at a loss?

Just wondering. Easier to sell the hobby if it's not sunk cost.

it's a hobby. like any hobby, it will suck up as much of your available money as you are willing to let it.

like any hobby, the "best" stuff *tends* to hold it's value among other hobbyists. pretty much anything that is strictly limited in supply (e.g., chips from a closed casino; they won't be re-opening under that name or ordering more of those chips) will increase in value over time simply because the supply can only decrease over time.

to be an investment, you'd need some reason to expect them to appreciate as reliably, or more, and as quickly, or more, as stable investments like bonds or index funds. you'd also need to take care of them so their condition doesn't deteriorate (i.e., you might never play with them, for fear of them getting chips and nicks on the corners). you'd also need to dispassionately consider them a commodity, buying and selling strictly (or holding) according to the market, with no emotional attachment.

i have sold some chips for more than they cost me. i have also sold some for less than i paid. i have also had good offers on some, that i declined. i will probably do so again. which is fine, so long as i never put in money that i actually need for anything.

no, they are not an investment. but if you shop carefully, casino chips can hold their value enough that if you ever want to get out, you will probably be able to do so at no great loss, and if you want to change your sets periodically, you can probably do so in relative stability cost-wise.

 

[Klobberer]

I've never sold a chip! I will be soon...maybe.

 

[saleen121212]

It's the best investment out there. Whatever you need to tell the boss to let you buy more chips . In reality hobbies are all about the enjoyment you get from them. Hunting rare chips, designing sets, buying, trading, selling is just half the fun for me. Getting to use them is the other half. It is nice knowing there is a market for me to get some money back if I need too, but I don't plan on making a living or small fortune buying and selling chips.