How do I keep my "high roller" buddy entertained/moderated? (1 Viewer)

[Darson]

My game is almost entirely a bunch of casual amateurs and the stakes are $20 buy-in with rebuys. Most will rebuy once or twice for a max of $60, occasionally one will go to $100 and there are a couple that will only ever risk $20.

I have one pal who in the online days would play on the $40/$80 tables. Compared to the rest of us, he's the high roller! He usually comes with a pocket full of cash with the objective of rebuying as many times as he can to stay in the game. Usually he only buys in once and wins! If we get in a 5c/10c cash game, he'll only bet in dollars.

Clearly he's a much better player than us and he's a very good friend but he ends up being the table bully. Is it fair to ask him to chill or should we just suck it up? I'm happy to play with him because he makes my game better but I'm also worried that the other guys are going to see him as a ringer and won't be so willing to come to poker night. Much more fun to have 10 guys around the table than 3.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Usually when a player that is used to playing much higher stakes comes down a lot in stakes that player loses. They play too many hands.

Your group should love having a guy like this. As long the rest of the table doesn’t try to match his loose play they should all do just fine.

 

[justsomedude]

I'm happy to play with him because he makes my game better but I'm also worried that the other guys are going to see him as a ringer and won't be so willing to come to poker night. Much more fun to have 10 guys around the table than 3.

I've found this to be the case as well. Not much you can do except keep an eye on it. If you see attendance dropping among the other "regulars", it might be time to stop inviting Mr. High Roller, even though he is a good friend. Table bullies in low-stakes games are just no fun, and can end up killing a "casual" game. If he wants to play .05/.10 like it's $2/$5, tell him to go to a casino.

 

[WedgeRock]

Don't ask him to chill. Soft-playing is worse than bullying.

Poll the other players. I'd love to have a guy like that at the games I play...but if your group doesn't share my opinion, you may wish to stop inviting your high roller friend to your casual game and see if you can get a higher stakes game going.

The other option is to invite him to PCF, where he will be quickly divested of his disposable income and be forced to play mircostakes.

 

[Rhodeman77]

You are better off giving the rest of the guys some advice on how to play against the overbetting agro player for sure.

If each of them plays pretty solid and wait for strong hands to play back at him with he will be paying all of them off at some point.

Sure he will get lucky at times, but that is poker.

 

[Coyote]

An adamant maximum buy-in of 100 BBs (and maybe a total maximum per night per player of 400-500 BBs) should keep the game true to its stakes and protect it against any higher-roller.
Teach them to play TAG against the LAG (what @Rhodeman77 said). Explain to them that he is an asset for the game and for themselves becoming better players (in case they 're interested).
If thy can't afford losing 300-400 BBs I would say lower further the stakes. If the stakes have already hit the bottom like in this case, make your game a $10 tourney when the teacher is there. No teacher works for free.

 

[Kyle]

Not a problem especially if he is losing and constantly having to rebuy. I would assume your group likes that.

But to make this simple just ask the group. Don't just assume it is a problem.

If your players are worried about a dollar bet then make it a limit game or spread limit game to the comfort of the majority of your players. I assume your "high roller" just wants to have fun too and a limit game will handcuff his higher betting habits.

 

[Old State]

I wouldn’t invite him to those games. I have poker friends from my $1/2 and $2/5 game that I don’t even message to play in my $.25/.50 game. Some of them, if they would even come, act like jackasses and constantly complain and ask to raise the stakes. Years ago I had two small stakes cash games going and one of those guys kept asking his table to up the blinds. Many were new to cash poker and he basically shamed them into doing it. Next thing you know people started busting out or leaving. Some didn’t play again for over a year.

When I found out what happened I berated him as I had told to not do exactly what he did. Crazy thing is he is a perpetual loser in our bigger game. After yelling at him for being an ass I asked him why he was so anxious to lose money and that he was that last person that should be asking to raise blinds. I was pissed!

Now I keep separate groups with only a few that are able to play in both without being fools.

 

[JustinInMN]

Clearly he's a much better player than us and he's a very good friend but he ends up being the table bully. Is it fair to ask him to chill or should we just suck it up?

This is a tough call for me because this is pretty close to trying to regulate a certain strategy as a requirement for playing in a game.

But I get the other side if players don't like playing with him it kills the game.

I know from your other posts that you really only have players interested in low stakes cash, so separating the games really isn't an option for you right now.

But I say let him play as he likes and deal with the problems if they arise. But if he's just spreading money in your game, the players that figure out to just call more often will be rewarded.

 

[Darson]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I will never not invite this guy to poker night - he's one of my best friends. I'm happy (and he's happy) to stick bounties on him because he knows he's a better player than the rest of us. He does play a lot looser with us but often means he catches a piece of something on the flop and punishes his opponent.

Maybe the problem is that my buddies all call the BB and we're 5 or 6 handed to the flop. I guess we're playing like a P*s play money table. Hopefully this will improve over time.

The other option is to invite him to PCF, where he will be quickly divested of his disposable income and be forced to play mircostakes.

I've tried! He's not interested in chips, just playing. He keeps rolling his eyes at me when I show him the 'yet another' set I've bought.

 

[BGinGA]

The other option is to invite him to PCF, where he will be quickly divested of his disposable income and be forced to play mircostakes.

this is gold

 

[crussader]

An adamant maximum buy-in of 100 BBs (and maybe a total maximum per night per player of 400-500 BBs) should keep the game true to its stakes and protect it against any higher-roller.

I have done this before and it works quite well. The total maximum buy-in per night is the key.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I have a combination of both low stakes and high stakes players in my game. I implemented 3 rules that really helped, and were met with no resistance:

1. I limited the buy in range from a minimum of $20 to a maximum of $200. You can tweak the range depending on the size of your game.

2. I don't allow a $200 rebuy (i.e., no add on) until the first $200 is gone.

3. I loosely keep track of topoffs. For example, if somebody buys in for $100, and then wants to top off for another $100....that counts as their $200 limit and they have to loose it all before they can rebuy again.

Good luck!

 

[DJ Mack]

You've gotten some solid suggestions above. I'll add just one bit of caution. Be very careful about chasing one player to keep him happy, even if he is your BFF. There's only so much you can do when there's a mismatch. When I was hosting regularly I fell into this trap early. You're so happy to have players that when it looks like you might lose one your instinct is to bend over backwards to keep him. Handled incorrectly you'll placate him for a short time while the others start dropping like flies. Then you're left with jack.

Sometimes the best thing to do is take stock of where your game is and where you want it to be. Make the necessary moves but expect and accept that one or more players will say adios. Yes there's a dynamic when the odd man out is a good friend but that doesn't make the game problem go away.

It's been said before but it bears repeating: games that aren't recruiting are dying. It would take some effort but maybe you can recruit some higher stakes players and set up a separate game that your high roller migrates to. He still has an invite to your place and you get more players overall.

 

[JustinInMN]

Most will rebuy once or twice for a max of $60, occasionally one will go to $100 and there are a couple that will only ever risk $20.

Out of curiosity how would it be received if you dropped the max to 10? Or maybe just did that in alternating games?

This might make it harder to bully the players that are going to try and nit their one buy-in of 20?

Maybe I am overthinking this, but players only interested in buying in once seems like a sign the stakes are beyond their comfort.

 

[Coyote]

@DJ Mack has correctly pointed at another important dimension: The probably wrong bias of the opening question.
Maybe it should be of more urgent concern "How do I keep my players from being chased away and my game wiped out by my best friend".
If you enjoy your neighbourhood's basketball game and also happen to be best friends with an NBA star, would you invite him to play? What's the point of mixing friendship and basketball in such a case?

To carry the analogy further on, (provided that your friend is really good at poker and not just a maniac at the table): If your buddy was the late Muhammad Ali, would you include him in a friendly invite to some casual amateur boxing session among accountant and lawyer friends?
He would be bored to death, and the rest of the friends would end up in hospital.

 

[Darson]

The beauty of poker is that you can sit at a table with a pro and not get beaten to a pulp!

Based on your advice, I think the best plan is to limit his buy-ins. He's a good friend and will understand why but it will also force him to be a bit more careful with his chips.

 

[JustinInMN]

The beauty of poker is that you can sit at a table with a pro and not get beaten to a pulp!

Based on your advice, I think the best plan is to limit his buy-ins. He's a good friend and will understand why but it will also force him to be a bit more careful with his chips.

I'm not sure if I understand why. If he's losing multiple buy-ins a night, it's good for the game. It sounds like he's the guy that won't leave the game. You are considering a rule that would be the only way to ensure his departure at some point in the night? Are you sure that's what you want?

I really think the better approach is figure out how you can keep people in the game that otherwise leave after one buy in. That's why I was advocating for lowering the max.

 

[Darson]

I'm not sure if I understand why. If he's losing multiple buy-ins a night, it's good for the game. It sounds like he's the guy that won't leave the game. You are considering a rule that would be the only way to ensure his departure at some point in the night? Are you sure that's what you want?

I really think the better approach is figure out how you can keep people in the game that otherwise leave after one buy in. That's why I was advocating for lowering the max.

He's never losing his buy-ins - we play tourney style and he always wins so gets all his money back and everyone else's!

 

[JustinInMN]

He's never losing his buy-ins - we play tourney style and he always wins so gets all his money back and everyone else's!

Oh my bad, I assumed we were talking cash because of this.

Usually he only buys in once and wins! If we get in a 5c/10c cash game, he'll only bet in dollars.

If we're talking tournament then it's pretty standard to cut off rebuys on a certain level. (Say after 60-90 mins, I tend to write structures with rebuys cut off on the first break/color up.)

Otherwise an infinite tournament is theoretically possible.

But if we're talking tournament and not cash, just limit the rebuy period to a set number of levels. Easy peasy

 

[Beakertwang]

Oh my bad, I assumed we were talking cash because of this.



If we're talking tournament then it's pretty standard to cut off rebuys on a certain level. (Say after 60-90 mins, I tend to write structures with rebuys cut off on the first break/color up.)

Otherwise an infinite tournament is theoretically possible.

But if we're talking tournament and not cash, just limit the rebuy period to a set number of levels. Easy peasy

This. And/or limit it to one, maybe two rebuys per person. Maybe even give a rebuy chip, that becomes an add-on chip after the break. I wouldn't want someone able to spend 10 buyins to have a huge advantage over someone who can only afford 2. Unlimited rebuys make the game into a bingo fest. If he's good, he can still win with one rebuy, and his bad beats will hurt him as bad they would hurt everyone else.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Just limit re-buys to the first two or three levels.

 

[JustinInMN]

Hosting cash and tournament are very different animals.

In cash, you want the game to go as long as people are willing to play. On the other hand, tournaments are designed to eliminate players so one player ends up with the chips at the end. Limiting buy-ins is in line with that goal.

 

[Dr Newnham]

Don't ask him to chill. Soft-playing is worse than bullying.

Poll the other players. I'd love to have a guy like that at the games I play...but if your group doesn't share my opinion, you may wish to stop inviting your high roller friend to your casual game and see if you can get a higher stakes game going.

The other option is to invite him to PCF, where he will be quickly divested of his disposable income and be forced to play mircostakes.

I don't understand how soft playing in this situation is worse then bullying? If he soft plays and give the other people a chance who is clearly much lower in skill by a huge margin, I dont see how thats bad for the game? Thats keeps everyone happy and reduces his winnings slightly. In no way is that disadvantage to the other players.

 

[Dr Newnham]

one way is to make your tourney structure very turbo? Which increases the element of luck. Even a pro player can't consistently win in turbo mode. If he is that good then i would ask him to chill a bit. Give the other players some chance since he can so easily control whether he win or lose. Another option is to make the payout structure different to include more winners, thus reducing the prize money for first place. Its either that or dont invite him to the game where the gap in skill is so wide.

 

[WedgeRock]

Thats keeps everyone happy and reduces his winnings slightly. In no way is that disadvantage to the other players.

Soft playing is essentially cheating. If he adopted a strategy of always check-calling and never betting or raising, maybe that would be okay. But invariably, he's going to lose a pot because of playing soft and end up having to make it up against someone else. He's not going to go from a winning player to a donating player just to keep everyone else happy.

 

[Moxie Mike]

I'm glad I read the whole thread - otherwise I too would have assumed you were discussing a cash game situation.

Have any of your other regulars actually complained? If not, is it possible there's no actual problem here?

As others have noted - in a tournament, capping the # of rebuys or capping the rebuy period* after an hour or 2 is the simplest solution.

*This is pretty standard actually.

In a cash game, if he's consistently winning with a hyper aggro style it is only because he's playing against opponents who don't know the proper adjustments to make - which is pretty typical of a low stakes friendly game. But it's not something you can do much about.

There are a couple things you can do if you think this a problem worth addressing. 1) Let people rat-hole part of their stack - maybe 1/2 of their profits above their initial buy in. If your buddy is playing loose-aggro but the stacks around him don't increase as he donates, this will encourage him not to play that way if he can't win his money back. 2) Another thing you can do is change the action to pot limit. This will force your buddy to make reasonable bet sizes.

Lastly though - I think it's worth pointing out that your friend seems to not mind the low stakes compared to what he's accustomed to - so perhaps showing up and donking off a few bucks is enjoyable for him, and more power to him. Low stakes home games are about getting a good group of friends together on a regular basis - not a measure of poker prowess.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

He usually comes with a pocket full of cash with the objective of rebuying as many times as he can to stay in the game. Usually he only buys in once and wins!

It seems like he's just a good player---if he's usually winning on one buy in, it doesn't seem like he has the objective of rebuying as many time as he can. If I was at that game I would take it as a personal challenge to figure out a way to beat him, just like any other player!

 

[Lash]

If people stop coming because someone keeps winning they should find a different game to play

 

[TheOctagon]

Infinite rebuys in a tournament setting is really non-standard. This is the problem. Nobody should be allowed unlimited rebuys. It's not in the spirit of tournament poker to do so.]

Edit: even if limited rebuys and he's taking people down, it's just a fun low stakes game. Clue your guys into calling his aggressive raises with a wider range. Do you find them playing too tight for his style and letting him push guys off draws and even made hands or are they calling every bet, every time, every flop? Adjustments are key here, but it's all in good fun.