Host Liability for damages (3 Viewers)

[MC_CPA]

Hi PCF,

Yesterday while cleaning up at the end of an event I was hosting, I broke cracked the glass back of one of my player's significant other's phone. Was putting away chips into a suitcase and the suitcase must have bumped the phone off the table. It was one of those glass iPhones and since it's an older model without AppleCare the back glass replacement cost is ~$900. Thankfully that is denoted in Canadian dollars so it's not as bad. I have since offered to pay for it.

My question is if going forward I should have a liability clause that players must agree to before participating. For reference, Ceasars uses something like:

"By participating in the tournament, players agree that ~ shall not have any liability for any loss, damages, claims, costs, causes of action or injury whatsoever including, but not limited to, personal injury, accident or death, property damage, disappointment or inconvenience arising from any act, omission or negligence whatsoever relating to the tournament or the receipt, ownership, possession or use of any prize."

Does anyone have any thoughts on how they deal with damages at their home games or similar experiences they'd like to share?

 

[Trihonda]

Two things, just like it's a players responsibility to protect their hands, you had a person, not even a player, who placed a valuable electronic at the table? I think they incur some responsibility for placing an item on the table that you wouldn't expect to be there. It's on them somewhat for putting their phone in your way.

Two, it's an older phone (as you stated) so a lot of that phones life expectancy has been used up. While you can't assume if time for this person to get a new phone, you also shouldn't be on the hook for a replacement phone, or the full value of the phone. Find out the trade in value of that year and model of phone, and maybe (if you're feeling seriously generous) you offer to pay a portion of that. Certainly not the full value of the phone.

 

[SetToBean]

Two things, just like it's a players responsibility to protect their hands, you had a person, not even a player, who placed a valuable electronic at the table? I think they incur some responsibility for placing an item on the table that you wouldn't expect to be there. It's on them somewhat for putting their phone in your way.

Two, it's an older phone (as you stated) so a lot of that phones life expectancy has been used up. While you can't assume if time for this person to get a new phone, you also shouldn't be on the hook for a replacement phone, or the full value of the phone. Find out the trade in value of that year and model of phone, and maybe (if you're feeling seriously generous) you offer to pay a portion of that. Certainly not the full value of the phone.

This is pretty much it. If someone asks for a full new replacement in this situation they're just trying to take advantage of reflexive kindness and probably deserve barely anything for that.

Also, there are a million cheap covers out there that make phones have a pretty solid chance of surviving a drop from a usual table height. I've been a klutz with my old iPhone many times and it has managed to stay just fine because of the cover - someone going with form over function in covers deserves what comes from not being careful.

 

[MC_CPA]

If someone asks for a full new replacement in this situation they're just trying to take advantage of reflexive kindness and probably deserve barely anything for that.

I offered to pay for the repair, or pay a lesser amount to settle it if they're comfortable with the cracks.

I think they incur some responsibility for placing an item on the table that you wouldn't expect to be there. It's on them somewhat for putting their phone in your way.

This is a fair point. Also I would have expected them to mitigate damages by having Apple Care. It's hard to say who's at fault on balance though.

Two, it's an older phone (as you stated) so a lot of that phones life expectancy has been used up. While you can't assume if time for this person to get a new phone, you also shouldn't be on the hook for a replacement phone, or the full value of the phone.

I might propose a third option to buy the phone at the 'trade in value' as in theory they could have traded the phone in before it cracked. I think between the three options (repair to previous condition, or keep phone and get some cash, or sell me phone for trade in) they can't say that I'm being unreasonable.

Would love to hear if other people have any stories or similar liability waivers in place. Some things are better left unsaid but others like this should ideally be in place before something happens.

 

[tabletalker7]

I am a putz. My friends are just as much a putz as I am. If we held each other responsible for something broken, the circle of money will become bigger than 3rd world countries entire economy. We don't hold each other responsible because one of us were stupid enough to leave something behind. Does that make us stupid putzes or smart putzes?

 

[wickedwonka121]

I would be lucky to have someone pay for a fraction of my phone if I were the owner in this case. I think this depends on the situation if it was a simple accident or some kind of carelessness. The former being a wash and the latter maybe sharing costs somehow. In most situations the liability is in the owner for not securing the phone in a "safe" place. I think sharing the cost would be the friendly thing to do.

 

[DrStrange]

Not liable. Hero might toss the phone owner a bone - Say $50 or $100 towards the repair/replacement cost - if feeling guilty.

The phone owner is responsible for their own stuff left in precarious peril. If Hero had been goofing around - say doing a table dance and stepped on the phone or tossed it across the room, maybe Hero would be responsible. But Hero is doing the business of the house as he cleans up the room after hosting. If someone leaves a thousand-dollar breakable at the edge of the table, that is on them.

I would be a bit more compassionate if the person with the broken phone is helping clean up.

Not going to ask anyone to sign a damage waiver at a home game -=- DrStrange

 

[WedgeRock]

You can't contract out of negligence.

 

[doublebooyah85]

$900!?

 

[Colquhoun]

$900!?

No kidding, lol…I’ve got a dresser drawer full of old iPhones.
New chip fund!

 

[drdr]

I think get quotes. I'd like to see proof it cost that much.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Screen replacement or back replacements cost $100.

I haven’t had a case on my iPhone in 5 years. Always fixing it (1x a year). Just gotta find local phone repair shops/kiosks.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Not going to ask anyone to sign a damage waiver at a home game -=- DrStrange

Absolutely!

 

[ekricket]

Some people - it’s always somebody else’s fault and the other party has to pay.
Other people take responsibility for their actions.
I know which ones I hang around.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Screen replacement or back replacements cost $100.

I haven’t had a case on my iPhone in 5 years. Always fixing it (1x a year). Just gotta find local phone repair shops/kiosks.

Why don't you put a case on it?!

 

[Machine]

This is a fair point. Also I would have expected them to mitigate damages by having Apple Care. It's hard to say who's at fault on balance though.

Why would you have an expectation that they would carry Apple Care? I think this is unrealistic and I don't think you can really get it on iPhones older than 2 models behind the current model, and SE ..

For a new phone 269 + 99 ( back glass "Other Accidental Damage" ) = 368 + 7% (tax +24) = 392
For a new phone 269 + 149 ( Lost or Stolen ) = 418 + 7% (tax +30) = 448

You can buy an iphone 16 Pro for 1100

So if on average you don't lose your phone every 2 years 3 months, its a waste of money

I have some dissidence with this thread, but 900 bucks seems like extortion. You didn't list the version of the iPhone, I would call a break fix place and have a discussion with them about the value of the back glass. I would likely offer to at least split it with them, or cover it depending on price.

While I break down the cost of the apple care, I would also weight it against the cost of cases and screen protectors as only a psychopath would walk about with 0 protection on a 1100 USD phone. I would also value the damage lower if they had nothing to protect the phone and left it on a rail. Another thought would be if someone has so much money as to walk around with no protection on their phone, I would hate to lose them as a player.

 

[Eriks]

$900 glass replacement cost? Dude’s got some nerve.

 

[DrStrange]

I don't have insurance on my phone or car for that matter. Insurance is a -EV bet that someone takes because they can't afford the risk. I do have insurance on my house for that reason. I also have a sizable umbrella for personal liability.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

I don't have insurance on my phone or car for that matter. Insurance is a -EV bet that someone takes because they can't afford the risk. I do have insurance on my house for that reason. I also have a sizable umbrella for personal liability.

Just curious if you live in a jurisdiction that doesn’t require automobile insurance?

 

[tabletalker7]

Just curious if you live in a jurisdiction that doesn’t require automobile insurance?

A lot of jurisdictions will allow you to "self insure". If you can afford it and it is allowed in your jurisdiction, I would recommend it. Car insurance is worse than lighting money on fire. At least if you light it on fire, the fire can warm you up. Car insurance raises your rates for no reason, then drops you if you have a claim.

 

[DrStrange]

@Bluegrass Poker In Texas, drivers have to carry insurance for other people's cars, property and personal injury. Damage to my own car is a separate portion of the policy - not only accident protection, but also theft and general protection.

I carry millions in coverage against damage done by me to other people's person and property. But my car is totally on me if I am at fault.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

 

[chippitydoodah]

I don't have insurance on my phone or car for that matter. Insurance is a -EV bet that someone takes because they can't afford the risk. I do have insurance on my house for that reason. I also have a sizable umbrella for personal liability.

So you do have car insurance but its just comprehensive.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

@Bluegrass Poker In Texas, drivers have to carry insurance for other people's cars, property and personal injury. Damage to my own car is a separate portion of the policy - not only accident protection, but also theft and general protection.

I carry millions in coverage against damage done by me to other people's person and property. But my car is totally on me if I am at fault.

Gotcha. So liability but not property coverage.

 

[DuckFat]

Was putting away chips into a suitcase and the suitcase must have bumped the phone off the table. It was one of those glass iPhones and since it's an older model without AppleCare the back glass replacement cost is ~$900.

Sounds like you're not even sure that you in fact bumped it off the table. If she didn't care enough to put a $10 case on a $1k phone then she shouldn't care when it gets broken. The more I think about it, the more it seems like you are being scammed into giving her a free upgrade.

If this had happened at a Starbucks with a random customer bumping into the table would she demand the random customer pay for it? Would she sue Starbucks? People need to be responsible for their own shit.

 

[BGinGA]

"No Phones at Table" policy totally makes this a non-issue.

No waiver for my games, nor would I play in one that required signing one.

 

[ekricket]

Should we get @Tommy to add a liability waiver to the meetup tracking tool?

 

[Chips523]

The person should have paid for insurance. It's not your fault. The phone is not your responsibility to watch out for.

 

[jayfiggy]

Kinda seems like they're trying to bum a Christmas gift off you! I mean, if you're in the giving mood... Still scummy AF. I never use a case on my phone, not sure why. But with that comes 100% responsibility of any breaks. Even if my friend is holding my phone, and dropped it, I am STILL taking responsibility, because if I just used a case, like everyone else, it would've been fine. IMO, that person is not a friend, or at the very least is trying to take advantage of you.

 

[bergs]

This is the kind of loose player you want at a home game - has a glass iPhone, doesn’t have a protective case, potpotpotpotpotpot….