Home Game Upgrade Guidance Needed. (1 Viewer)

[codeman00]

I had my most recent work poker game this past weekend. Four of us had a pre-meeting and decided what we wanted to try to improve going forward. The most important step this time was creating a list of games that can be played. I created a chart that showed the available games vs. max number of players vs. if wild cards were allowed or not, etc.

The next part of the plan was to try different gameplay on two different nights to see what everyone likes best. This was all emailed out to the group in advance!

Night #1: Fixed Limit Dealers Choice Night

• Games will be selected from a fixed list of games (The Chart) based upon the # of players. Stud, Draw, Texas Holdem, Big O, O8, Omaha, Razz, Stud8 and others like Guts, all on the list.
• Betting is $1/$2 Fixed Limit with a 25c ante, again, all following the Chart.
• Buy in is Uncapped..but recommended at $20-$100

Night #2: No-Limit Night

• Games are limited to Omaha, Texas Holdem, Big O, Omaha8
• $0.25/$0.25 NL
• $20 Buy in.

So we tried Night #1...Fixed Limit Night, without any objections from the group. (That surprised me.) There were some improvements.

• Very few people splashed the pot with $1 and $2 being the fixed bets. There wasn't a bet of 25c around the table and then a raise of 25c which once wasted a lot of our time every game.
• Everyone knew what game was being played and the rules. This eliminated explaining each particular variations of the rules 3 times to people that weren't listening.
• We eliminated the "Invention of New Games" which was a huge plus. Most times when a new version or variation of a game is invented, it doesn't go well.
• Pots were surprisingly large...I guess with the $1/$2 limits, that should be expected.
• I enjoy learning the other games that I'm not really proficient at like Stud8, and Omaha.
• Some of the other serious players cited it was "better" but still not great (as in NL).
• I thought gameplay was much better and I could live with this as our "social" game, even as a more serious poker player.

That worked well with everyone being up for trying it. So we'll try the No Limit night next and see what happens. Most of the more social poker players keep saying that they like the variation of rules and games...but I think that's because rule variations help make spread limit poker more exciting because it's not that exciting by itself. Getting put to the test with a big bet, that's where the fun comes in.

I'll post back after our next game.

 

[Trihonda]

You mentioned spread limit poker. This is not to be confused with fixed to limit or limit poker. We started playing our dealers choice games, very similarly to your games, with a spread limit. That meant that we would normally post a $.25 antie and limited our betting between $.25 and three dollars. The bet amounts were up to us, but they could not be more than $3. This prevented artificially bloating the pot, and limited the massive pots/swings. We would all die in for $20, and it was very rare for anyone to use more than that night. Granted, this is and the kind of poker I would prefer now

 

[codeman00]

You mentioned spread limit poker. This is not to be confused with fixed to limit or limit poker. We started playing our dealers choice games, very similarly to your games, with a spread limit. That meant that we would normally post a $.25 antie and limited our betting between $.25 and three dollars. The bet amounts were up to us, but they could not be more than $3. This prevented artificially bloating the pot, and limited the massive pots/swings. We would all die in for $20, and it was very rare for anyone to use more than that night. Granted, this is and the kind of poker I would prefer now

That was exactly what I meant by spread limit (although I don't think I used that term at the beginning of this thread...but that's what my game started out to be...Spread Limit up to $2) We changed the game this time to Fixed Limit $1/$2 and then next are going to try NL.

I can see we are definitely looking at some bloated pots and bigger swings but it's a lot better in my opinion than the last person splashing the pot with 25c...a meaningless bet that everyone will call...every round.

I'm definitely all for bigger swings and bigger pots...but yeah, that is definitely moves away from a social game. I'm thinking we're going to see big time swings in the NL format.

 

[detroitdad]

I'm thinking we're going to see big time swings in the NL format.

Especially with NL Omaha. Why not try

NLHE
PLO
NL Crazy Pineapple

 

[Shaggy]

Especially with NL Omaha. Why not try

NLHE
PLO
NL Crazy Pineapple

The short stack-edness of the NL games might minimize the swings... but people ill likely be losing their $20 buy-ins.

 

[codeman00]

Especially with NL Omaha. Why not try

NLHE
PLO
NL Crazy Pineapple

I have never played pot limit Omaha. I think it would make the game cumbersome counting the pot all of the time. to see what your next bet can be. That's the main reason I've avoided PL and went straight to NL. That being said, I'm pretty sure there's a good reason that Omaha is PL and not NL. Crazy Pineapple might work well. I've never played that either but know of it. I'll look into it...Thanks!

The short stack-edness of the NL games might minimize the swings... but people ill likely be losing their $20 buy-ins.

I'm okay with people losing their $20 buy-ins. My goal in this is to move everyone into a more real game of poker instead of what we started out as: a crazy spread limit poker night with games being made up on the fly and no one really knowing where they stand in any given game or hand...not to mention losing because rules are misunderstood or not heard.

 

[Shaggy]

I have never played pot limit Omaha. I think it would make the game cumbersome counting the pot all of the time. to see what your next bet can be. That's the main reason I've avoided PL and went straight to NL. That being said, I'm pretty sure there's a good reason that Omaha is PL and not NL.

Keeping track of the pot is a bit cumbersome, but as the dealer, I got used to it. Overbetting the pot may not happen that frequently in your game if you play NL. That is the only thing I would fear... and is one of the reasons why PL is so actiony. In NL, a player with a made straight on a two flush board can over bet the pot to price out a player with a set and flush draw. In PL that is much less likely... resulting in a potentially correct call. Keep an eye on how your game plays as NL. If people are not abusing the NL... then its no big deal.

Also, regarding counting the pot. Rounding is okay. Also, if people are betting pot, the amount in the pot = pot x (number of players +1)... no additional counting.

 

[codeman00]

Keeping track of the pot is a bit cumbersome, but as the dealer, I got used to it. Overbetting the pot may not happen that frequently in your game if you play NL. That is the only thing I would fear... and is one of the reasons why PL is so actiony. In NL, a player with a made straight on a two flush board can over bet the pot to price out a player with a set and flush draw. In PL that is much less likely... resulting in a potentially correct call. Keep an eye on how your game plays as NL. If people are not abusing the NL... then its no big deal.

Also, regarding counting the pot. Rounding is okay. Also, if people are betting pot, the amount in the pot = pot x (number of players +1)... no additional counting.

That's great advice....much appreciated. I will definitely keep an eye on it. I knew there had to be a reason why Omaha was played Pot Limit and not No Limit. It will be a very interesting first NL game.

 

[Lemonzest]

I have played some really bush poker as well. I played in a game where the dealer suggested just not doing any burn card on the flop....:/

There is a large gap between hardcore poker fans who understand the game and guys that are just out looking to have a good time. Not everyone is a massive poker fan so there is nothing wrong with being ignorant. However, it is up to the host to enforce rules and create a structure that makes it a good game for everyone.

The bush poker games I have played are often a gong show when it comes to cashing out because no one knows how to do it and there is never enough money in there because rebuys and cashouts have been mishandled all night. These gong show bush league games never last they are just guys that host a game once or twice a year.

Bottom line is the host needs to take the bull by the horns and make the game orderly which will in turn be a fun sustainable game.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

So...I will share my evolution and it might (or might not) provide some useful guidance.

In the mid 2000s, I moved into a neighborhood that played very infrequently (once every 4 to 6 months). I also spent time playing in a different neighborhood / poker crew (again very infrequently). But what I was really doing was targeting people the I respected and would truly enjoy spending time with.

In 2009, I started hosting my own games. Only once every couple of months at first. As the players I brought together / invited started spending more time together, they yearned for more poker. So...we started playing monthly and eventually weekly. I don't think they realized it at first, but eventually my peeps came to realize that they enjoy the social aspect (i.e., hanging out together) as much as they do the actual poker game.

The moral of the story is be VERY selective about the players you invite to grow your game. We've grown from a handful of ragrag neighbors to 25ish regulars since 2009. We get requests all the time to join our crew, but more get denied than accepted. Becoming a regular requires a 100% yes vote from all current Seeking Alpha Social Club members.

Good luck and be careful as you grow. Quality over quantity!!

 

[codeman00]

Update: NL Night
We were finally able to play our first No Limit Night. Finally! We started with very low stakes because I didn't want any players that have never played no limit to overvalue their hand, get in an all in situation a couple of times and lose a couple of buy ins quick. The game was:

$0.25/$0.25 NL
Buy in: $20, and can buy back in at $10 or under for another $20 max
Games: Holdem, Omaha, Omaha 8, Big O
It was dealers choice but we played an entire round of each game before switching.

Results...
Everyone was happy with the gameplay and liked it MUCH more than our limit night. Everyone really hated limit from our past game. This is progress for our group for sure. Poker night turned into less socialization and more poker as people were put to the test with some all-ins.

I was initially concerned about people playing over their head especially considering the experience level at NL that some of the group had over the others. At that low of a buy in limit, it really didn't happen...but easily could have if the cards would have been different. One of the newer, less experienced players lost his first couple of hands and his stack. I made a mistake on a following hand otherwise he would have lost his 2nd buy-in a few hands later. Luckily, he won that hand which floated him most of the night (otherwise we would have been down a player). So it worked out well to keep him around to get his feet wet.

I found the game fun from a strategy standpoint (Omaha/Big O games are rather new to me). However I never felt like I had enough $$ in my stack and was almost happy to get down to $10 so I could buy back in and have $30. Also, by the end of the night, players were splashing the pot on every hand preflop to at least make it $0.50 which would be called by of course, everyone. We will definitely be moving up to $0.25/$0.50 next time with $20-$40 buy in.

Other benefits were never having to explain the rules to a game which bogged down our old games. And since we didn't have antes, there was no more game of "who didn't post their ante" issue which also bogged us down every night. Definite improvements!! The casinos figured this out years ago.

Still an open issue...
I asked everyone to speak up after the game while I kept my mouth shut. They noted that they loved NL. Two of them that always show up but aren't the decision makers noted that they still miss playing "all of those other games" and that the same games get boring. (sigh) I personally hate those other games and never want to see them again. There's no easy way to have a NL game and stack and then incorporate Ladder, No Peek, Guts, 727, in between and other luck games that have many more betting rounds and require pulling cash from your pocket during a hand. The same players noted that we need to quit worrying about standardizing games and trying to get new people....we need to cater the game to the ones that always show up (not knowing that we immediately lose new players because of the crazy games). Also those are the same players don't worry about planning the game and getting attendance. We don't have a huge group of players as it is...only 8 regular cash players and 3-4 fringe players.

I'm just not sure how to make the couple of people happy since they still want to play those other games....

 

[Poker Zombie]

I'm just not sure how to make the couple of people happy since they still want to play those other games....

You don't.

Running a successful card game is like running a buisness. You make decisions that will keep the game alive, but you never make a decision that will make you unhappy. You will attract more players with the easily recognisable NLHE than you will ever keep with crazy games of random chance. I hate it for the two, but they can always try hosting on your off nights if they think there's a future in silly games.

 

[codeman00]

You don't.

Running a successful card game is like running a buisness. You make decisions that will keep the game alive, but you never make a decision that will make you unhappy. You will attract more players with the easily recognisable NLHE than you will ever keep with crazy games of random chance. I hate it for the two, but they can always try hosting on your off nights if they think there's a future in silly games.

I agree with you...but there is a catch of course. I would say the "game" belongs to me and a friend. My friend originated the game which once moved among a few different player's houses. I started helping with the tournament part of the night and now bring the new chips and am the tournament director. He helps with food and keeping the cash organized. We started playing atone of the other player's house exclusively because we noticed they (husband and wife) play later when they are are at their house and they can drink more freely. Plus, they have a nice setup that works for our game. He just happens to be one of the players that wants more of a variety of games. So it's not easy to make that ruling...but I 100% agree with your post!!

When I have the game at my house, it's NLHE all night...with by the book casino rules.

We might try to add Stud8 and maybe another game that would work in the NL format. I'm not sure it would be enough though.

 

[upNdown]

I agree with you...but there is a catch of course. I would say the "game" belongs to me and a friend. My friend originated the game which once moved among a few different player's houses. I started helping with the tournament part of the night and now bring the new chips and am the tournament director. He helps with food and keeping the cash organized. We started playing atone of the other player's house exclusively because we noticed they (husband and wife) play later when they are are at their house and they can drink more freely. Plus, they have a nice setup that works for our game. He just happens to be one of the players that wants more of a variety of games. So it's not easy to make that ruling...but I 100% agree with your post!!

When I have the game at my house, it's NLHE all night...with by the book casino rules.

We might try to add Stud8 and maybe another game that would work in the NL format. I'm not sure it would be enough though.

Oh my god, Stud8 with rookies? Can I play?
It sounds like you've made amazing progress here. I hear what you're saying about playing at this couple's house. But maybe YOU don't have to make the decision. Can it be put to a vote? If there's really only two people who want to play the stupid games, they should lose the vote, right? And a little subtle behind the scenes campaigning by you wouldn't hurt either.
Stupid games are stupid; I guess you can let the crowd decide about those. But games that can't be played without table stakes should be off limits.

 

[codeman00]

On another note, I have started a separate weekday tournament at my house and followed a lot of your advice here. The tournament is slated for 3-3.5 hrs for a single table of up to 10 players. The buy-in is $20 + $5 bounty with 15,000 starting chips. There is a bonus of 2,000 chips for being on time....and after 4 tournaments, not one player has been late. If anyone is setting up a tournament, this is the way to go...bonus on-time chips.

I also used set up the rules exactly the way I wanted to like that we're on a time schedule since it's mid-week, and everyone needs to eat before hand, and not at the table, etc. This prevents sloppy eating on the carpet during play. I downloaded the Travis Poker software set up on a laptop too. Everyone is on time and genuinely really excited to play each event.

Thank you to everyone for all of your help and advice. It's a true testament that if you set the rules and convey the rules, then it will all work out well.

 

[codeman00]

Oh my god, Stud8 with rookies? Can I play?
It sounds like you've made amazing progress here. I hear what you're saying about playing at this couple's house. But maybe YOU don't have to make the decision. Can it be put to a vote? If there's really only two people who want to play the stupid games, they should lose the vote, right? And a little subtle behind the scenes campaigning by you wouldn't hurt either.
Stupid games are stupid; I guess you can let the crowd decide about those. But games that can't be played without table stakes should be off limits.

Ha.. voting sounds like a good idea...in other words, strong arm the others with behind the scenes campaigning. I'll let you know how it works out!

 

[Pointaker101]

Keeping track of the pot is a bit cumbersome, but as the dealer, I got used to it. Overbetting the pot may not happen that frequently in your game if you play NL. That is the only thing I would fear... and is one of the reasons why PL is so actiony. In NL, a player with a made straight on a two flush board can over bet the pot to price out a player with a set and flush draw. In PL that is much less likely... resulting in a potentially correct call. Keep an eye on how your game plays as NL. If people are not abusing the NL... then its no big deal.

Also, regarding counting the pot. Rounding is okay. Also, if people are betting pot, the amount in the pot = pot x (number of players +1)... no additional counting.

Agreed here. NL Omaha seems like it would be an all-in fest with less than 100 BB...after a few rounds of PLO, you get rather quick with stacking and counting the pots, and rounding is a common occurrence.

 

[codeman00]

Our cash game is still evolving... We had game this past Friday and it was interesting for sure.

We all realized in the last game that the blinds needed to be changed from $0.25/$0.25 to $0.25/$0.50 NL. In addition, buyin max was changed from $20 to $40. We had 9 people in the cash game, 7 bought in for $40, and two bought in for $20. Those changes weren't met with any resistance.

NL Holdem was called for the first orbit. Then the second orbit, all hell broke loose when someone calling Omaha8. This group was rather tentative with NL on our last poker night...not so much this time around. $6 bets started preflop? Pots were $50-$60 early? This WAS a game it was tough to win $20-$30 a night and now and everyone all of a sudden lost their mind at 9PM. What I was afraid of was that this would all come at a cost....many of this group are uncomfortable losing $40...so I had a feeling what would happen if they lost 2 buy ins in the first 2 hrs. Well it happened. The game got quiet and serious. Players were losing their stack and rebuying like crazy....we had our highest bank that we've ever had. After a couple of orbits of crazy huge Omaha 8 pots, you could tell some people reacted like they had been hit by a freight train. And everyone eventually went back to Omaha High and Holdem for the rest of the night with more reasonable bets/pots for this game. As far as the players reactions specifically:

One of the players that didn't like the format change started making some comments about how he wanted to play some of his luck based games when it came for his time to choose. I told him that he could select from Omaha Hi, Omaha 8 and holdem (per our chart). He was not happy. He chose Omaha8 purposely and sat back and watched another orbit happy at the big pots and chaos of splitting the pots so many different ways. Soon after, he just quit, sat back and drank after losing his first buy in. This is the first time he's ever quit playing poker in the 4 years we've been playing. He made comments the rest of the night about how he didn't understand nor agree this "new" rule we were enforcing about one chip being a call and having to verbally say what your bet was, etc. He was not happy about that or anything.

The hosts are a husband and wife. The husband lost a buy in and he quit early too (11PM or so). One player cashed out about 1AM unrelated to the $$ won or lost. The wife fortunately had a great night hitting all kinds of low hands and scooping (up 3 buyins at least)and it's a good thing because I'm pretty sure she would have stopped too after one buy in lost. She started losing some of her huge stack and cashed out at 1:15AM which was pretty early for our poker night. I'm assuming that she wanted to cash out with a win vs losing it back. That left 5 of us awkwardly playing in the host's house with the hosts not playing. After another couple of hands, we felt the pressure and packed up and left.

Many of us were finally happy with a game. But its turned into serious poker now instead of drinking and playing social luck based poker. I was so happy to hear one of the guys that lost early and later made a big comeback say that he realized that he needs to bring more money to poker night next time (after he borrowed $80 from another player). This tells me the light clicked on for him that he was bringing a knife to a gunfight...and he's ready to stay in there and keep playing. However, I'm not sure the other players that quit early are going to react the same. It's going to be interesting going forward as this game evolves.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Our cash game is still evolving... We had game this past Friday and it was interesting for sure.

We all realized in the last game that the blinds needed to be changed from $0.25/$0.25 to $0.25/$0.50 NL. In addition, buyin max was changed from $20 to $40. We had 9 people in the cash game, 7 bought in for $40, and two bought in for $20. Those changes weren't met with any resistance.

NL Holdem was called for the first orbit. Then the second orbit, all hell broke loose when someone calling Omaha8. This group was rather tentative with NL on our last poker night...not so much this time around. $6 bets started preflop? Pots were $50-$60 early? This WAS a game it was tough to win $20-$30 a night and now and everyone all of a sudden lost their mind at 9PM. What I was afraid of was that this would all come at a cost....many of this group are uncomfortable losing $40...so I had a feeling what would happen if they lost 2 buy ins in the first 2 hrs. Well it happened. The game got quiet and serious. Players were losing their stack and rebuying like crazy....we had our highest bank that we've ever had. After a couple of orbits of crazy huge Omaha 8 pots, you could tell some people reacted like they had been hit by a freight train. And everyone eventually went back to Omaha High and Holdem for the rest of the night with more reasonable bets/pots for this game. As far as the players reactions specifically:

One of the players that didn't like the format change started making some comments about how he wanted to play some of his luck based games when it came for his time to choose. I told him that he could select from Omaha Hi, Omaha 8 and holdem (per our chart). He was not happy. He chose Omaha8 purposely and sat back and watched another orbit happy at the big pots and chaos of splitting the pots so many different ways. Soon after, he just quit, sat back and drank after losing his first buy in. This is the first time he's ever quit playing poker in the 4 years we've been playing. He made comments the rest of the night about how he didn't understand nor agree this "new" rule we were enforcing about one chip being a call and having to verbally say what your bet was, etc. He was not happy about that or anything.

The hosts are a husband and wife. The husband lost a buy in and he quit early too (11PM or so). One player cashed out about 1AM unrelated to the $$ won or lost. The wife fortunately had a great night hitting all kinds of low hands and scooping (up 3 buyins at least)and it's a good thing because I'm pretty sure she would have stopped too after one buy in lost. She started losing some of her huge stack and cashed out at 1:15AM which was pretty early for our poker night. I'm assuming that she wanted to cash out with a win vs losing it back. That left 5 of us awkwardly playing in the host's house with the hosts not playing. After another couple of hands, we felt the pressure and packed up and left.

Many of us were finally happy with a game. But its turned into serious poker now instead of drinking and playing social luck based poker. I was so happy to hear one of the guys that lost early and later made a big comeback say that he realized that he needs to bring more money to poker night next time (after he borrowed $80 from another player). This tells me the light clicked on for him that he was bringing a knife to a gunfight...and he's ready to stay in there and keep playing. However, I'm not sure the other players that quit early are going to react the same. It's going to be interesting going forward as this game evolves.

This is where you may need to decide: Smaller stakes, capping the pot, or picking up new players. Poker is fun, but everyone has different risk tolerances for a night of fun.

If you need an extra player on occasion, you know where to find me...

 

[CraigT78]

Our cash game is still evolving... We had game this past Friday and it was interesting for sure.

We all realized in the last game that the blinds needed to be changed from $0.25/$0.25 to $0.25/$0.50 NL. In addition, buyin max was changed from $20 to $40. We had 9 people in the cash game, 7 bought in for $40, and two bought in for $20. Those changes weren't met with any resistance.

NL Holdem was called for the first orbit. Then the second orbit, all hell broke loose when someone calling Omaha8. This group was rather tentative with NL on our last poker night...not so much this time around. $6 bets started preflop? Pots were $50-$60 early? This WAS a game it was tough to win $20-$30 a night and now and everyone all of a sudden lost their mind at 9PM. What I was afraid of was that this would all come at a cost....many of this group are uncomfortable losing $40...so I had a feeling what would happen if they lost 2 buy ins in the first 2 hrs. Well it happened. The game got quiet and serious. Players were losing their stack and rebuying like crazy....we had our highest bank that we've ever had. After a couple of orbits of crazy huge Omaha 8 pots, you could tell some people reacted like they had been hit by a freight train. And everyone eventually went back to Omaha High and Holdem for the rest of the night with more reasonable bets/pots for this game. As far as the players reactions specifically:

One of the players that didn't like the format change started making some comments about how he wanted to play some of his luck based games when it came for his time to choose. I told him that he could select from Omaha Hi, Omaha 8 and holdem (per our chart). He was not happy. He chose Omaha8 purposely and sat back and watched another orbit happy at the big pots and chaos of splitting the pots so many different ways. Soon after, he just quit, sat back and drank after losing his first buy in. This is the first time he's ever quit playing poker in the 4 years we've been playing. He made comments the rest of the night about how he didn't understand nor agree this "new" rule we were enforcing about one chip being a call and having to verbally say what your bet was, etc. He was not happy about that or anything.

The hosts are a husband and wife. The husband lost a buy in and he quit early too (11PM or so). One player cashed out about 1AM unrelated to the $$ won or lost. The wife fortunately had a great night hitting all kinds of low hands and scooping (up 3 buyins at least)and it's a good thing because I'm pretty sure she would have stopped too after one buy in lost. She started losing some of her huge stack and cashed out at 1:15AM which was pretty early for our poker night. I'm assuming that she wanted to cash out with a win vs losing it back. That left 5 of us awkwardly playing in the host's house with the hosts not playing. After another couple of hands, we felt the pressure and packed up and left.

Many of us were finally happy with a game. But its turned into serious poker now instead of drinking and playing social luck based poker. I was so happy to hear one of the guys that lost early and later made a big comeback say that he realized that he needs to bring more money to poker night next time (after he borrowed $80 from another player). This tells me the light clicked on for him that he was bringing a knife to a gunfight...and he's ready to stay in there and keep playing. However, I'm not sure the other players that quit early are going to react the same. It's going to be interesting going forward as this game evolves.

It sounds to me that you need two groups for poker - the fun group where you can just socialize, drink, and then play and the serious group where you can play, drink, and socialize. Mixing the two does not work. I hold my regular poker monthly and then will host a different night a couple times a year where I invite only those would wouldn't normally play because $20 is their limit. It's not that they couldn't afford it - it's just like Zombie said - $20 is their comfort tolerance.

 

[Rhodeman77]

PLO8 is a crazy game for new players to pick up. It is a very expensive learning curve that more often than not just drives players away from the game than bring them in.

I would consider adding Crazy Pineapple instead and have a 2,3,4 cards being dealt.

It should calm down the crazy betting and pot sizes.

Good luck!

 

[upNdown]

PLO8 is a crazy game for new players to pick up. It is a very expensive learning curve that more often than not just drives players away from the game than bring them in.

I would consider adding Crazy Pineapple instead and have a 2,3,4 cards being dealt.

It should calm down the crazy betting and pot sizes.

Good luck!

Yeah I was surprised that PLO8 and Omaha were the two games added for a bunch of noobs.
The betting probably got crazy initially because every player who had two pair or a straight thought he had a good hand. Baby steps, like pineapple, (or even just a full night of NLHE) might have helped with this group. But it sounds like you have a few people who wouldn’t like the transition to real poker, no matter what. Obviously the fact that the hosts are two of them, is a problem.
I don’t know what to tell you besides cut the dead wood and move on. I’d rather not play cards at all than play those luck based games. But that’s me. If you can stomach them, do what @CraigT78 said and have two separate games. Or alternate,

 

[codeman00]

It sounds to me that you need two groups for poker - the fun group where you can just socialize, drink, and then play and the serious group where you can play, drink, and socialize. Mixing the two does not work. I hold my regular poker monthly and then will host a different night a couple times a year where I invite only those would wouldn't normally play because $20 is their limit. It's not that they couldn't afford it - it's just like Zombie said - $20 is their comfort tolerance.

Four of us met today at lunch to discuss this. We put out a lot of ideas but I'm not sure we have a solution yet. I personally can't go back to playing the crazy luck games like we once did. I also don't have fun playing for small stakes where I might have a chance of winning $10 for the night. I think tournaments solve a lot of the problems but the last thing I want to do is planning on spending all of Friday night playing poker only to get knocked out at the beginning of the tournament thus ruining my night. I wouldn't easily be able to leave either because I'm the one with the sets of chips, cards, buttons, racks, etc. It's amazing how complex this can get.

 

[codeman00]

Yeah I was surprised that PLO8 and Omaha were the two games added for a bunch of noobs.
The betting probably got crazy initially because every player who had two pair or a straight thought he had a good hand. Baby steps, like pineapple, (or even just a full night of NLHE) might have helped with this group. But it sounds like you have a few people who wouldn’t like the transition to real poker, no matter what. Obviously the fact that the hosts are two of them, is a problem.
I don’t know what to tell you besides cut the dead wood and move on. I’d rather not play cards at all than play those luck based games. But that’s me. If you can stomach them, do what @CraigT78 said and have two separate games. Or alternate,

You are spot on about Omaha8. The strange thing is the group has played Omaha for over 3 years so it's not like they don't know the game. Do they know it well? No, but they do know it. The first time we played it NL, everything was fine. I even cautioned everyone and it was a good game. 2 months later we increase the blinds $0.25 and the buy in $20 more dollars and all hell breaks loose.

I wanted to just play Holdem too but some have voted that down because it's too boring. They want to have a variety of games. Well now we're not boring!!

 

[Poker Zombie]

I tried to advance my group toward Omaha, but the first step I took was Pineapple.

The only opinion that was voiced was "I did not like it as much". I took that into consideration and did the only thing I could think of - I bought a new set of chips that could support a limit game . Now I'm going to teach them Limit Holdem, and may move forward from that into Limit Omaha. This gives my more experienced players hope that the game will not always be "boring" NL tournaments (my personal favorite is a NL tournament), but won't result in a big loss for my little spenders.

the last thing I want to do is planning on spending all of Friday night playing poker only to get knocked out at the beginning of the tournament thus ruining my night.

Answer: rebuys. Limiting the number of rebuys prevents Richey McStack-Shoves from bullying Sir Twenty-bucks into folding every hand, but a single rebuy helps deter the straight flush that lost to a bigger straight flush from going home the very first hand of the night (BTW that actually did happen in my game).

 

[detroitdad]

I standby that HOPE is a great rotation to play. Fives you two NL games and two PL games.

Hold'em
PLO
Crazy Pineapple
PLO8

We have a guy that doesn't much care for PLO8. He takes a long smoke break when that orbit comes up.

 

[upNdown]

I standby that HOPE is a great rotation to play. Fives you two NL games and two PL games.

Hold'em
PLO
Crazy Pineapple
PLO8

We have a guy that doesn't much care for PLO8. He takes a long smoke break when that orbit comes up.

Okay, what exactly is crazy pineapple? Is that when you discard your third card after the flop?

 

[detroitdad]

Okay, what exactly is crazy pineapple? Is that when you discard your third card after the flop?

correct.

 

[detroitdad]

Okay, what exactly is crazy pineapple? Is that when you discard your third card after the flop?

Double Board Crazy Pineapple can be interesting btw.

 

[inca911]

I agree with Bill that HOPE is a good format to provide boundaries for a wide range of players, but as a host you still need different games/stakes/formats to cater to the different player populations. These are some of the games I have been hosting/attending:

• Micro-stakes learning nights, where $10 gets you $100 in chips for $0.25/0.50 blinds (i.e., 2.5/5 cents). Good way to have fun, and a huge losing night rarely breaks a real $100 loss. A great way for players to get exposure at low cost to games they may not have seen: 2-7TD, badugi/-deucey/-dacey, etc.
• NLHE cash nights, with varying stakes based on the players: $0.25/0.50, $1/2, etc.
• Tournament nights, with varying games, structures, and buy-ins based on the players. I play tournaments with $20 buy-ins, and multi-day $$$ events.
• Limit nights at various stakes are also a ton of fun with very low cost. Good for drinking groups of players, as well as to get folks comfortable with new games they only recently learned.
• And of course, true PCF three-ring circus, with resulting $900 lazy SOHE pots. Inventing and playing new games (e.g, imPLOcean8) is great way to spend a weekend!

Rarely do you find local players who enjoy all of these formats, so I find I need to rotate the games to see everyone who wants to play. I know I can't make everyone happy, so I don't kill myself trying!