Home Game Ruling on Substantial Action (1 Viewer)

Headhunter13

Headhunter13

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True home game (not in a card room) with a dedicated dealer. We play a round by round mix of Big O, 5 card PLO, 4 card PLO, Drawmaha, etc. We had just finished a round of 4 card PLO and are on the first hand of Big O. Dealer deals four cards and then stops. Immediately, UTG and UTG+1 fold. Next player raises. We then realize that we only have 4 cards and we should have 5 for Big O. What to do now?

Call it a misdeal and redeal all hands
Give everyone who hasn't acted (and also the raiser) a 5th card
Play Big O with 4 cards
Play 4 card PLO since that's what the first three people thought we were playing
Something else?
 
Santa123 said:
Players who folded accepted the action. Get everyone else a fifths card.
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This is silly. Home game with friends playing all kinds of goofy games and you're going to pull that?

If hands are easily discernible, give em back and laugh when they fold after they get the 5th card. If they aren't, misdeal and redeal. If I'm running different games and there's a dedicated dealer who forgets how many cards my players get, 0 chance I'm blaming the players for literally playing the hand they're dealt.
 
Santa123 said:
Players who folded accepted the action. Get everyone else a fifths card.
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Santa123 said:
Its like a blind raise.
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Yeah that’s creative. I can almost get onboard with the accepted action by the folders, except they have the same problem as the raiser - it was a raise made thinking he was playing a different game, when he was understandably mislead by the dealer.
I don’t see any reason to try to play this one out.
 
Many actions have been made based on 4 card PLO, no one said anything immediately. Just play an extra normal hand. Why make this more complex?

If I'm ruling anything it's a misdeal, which seems pointless in a home game unless there's some history.

What's Big O btw? - edit: just 5 card hi/lo?
 
All players hold invalid hands for the game being played, and all hands are thus ruled dead.

No winners, no losers. Deal the next hand, please.
 
We usually have the opposite happen and deal an extra card (5th) in 4 card PLO. Usually is caught mid-deal of the 5th card and we will decide to either play 5 card PLO or an extra hand of BigO (we don’t want to waste the time of a re-deal).

I would say play the hand as PLO. None of the players were paying enough attention during the deal or during the first couple players action to now get to make a stink that it should be BigO.
 
But if the players thought it was Big O (a high-low game) and acted accordingly, wouldn’t O8 make more sense?
 
Taghkanic said:
But if the players thought it was Big O (a high-low game) and acted accordingly, wouldn’t O8 make more sense?
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If the players really thought it was Big O, no one would have acted or the 'serious player' would say something once the dealer stopped after 4 cards. However it is unclear.

My guess is the game change wasn't clearly announced or much drinking involved
 
upNdown said:
Sounds like a misdeal to me. There’s been a raise and nobody has a legal hand.
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MatB said:
Carry on with 4 cards only.

It’s a home game. Let’s not Re deal and waste time. Someone is stuck already
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There's certainly something to be said for bending the rules since it's a home game.

I wouldn't call this is a 'misdeal' since there wasn't technically an error like someone receiving too many cards or an inadvertently exposed card, etc. I would call it an 'incomplete' deal if anything.

If this were to occur in my game, since I try to mimic a casino environment as much as possible in terms of rule enforcement, I would instruct the dealer to finish the deal and resume action with the player who's yet to act.

UTG and UTG+1 might bitch if they're of the personality to do so... but if they folded a 4-card hand... chances are that fifth card wasn't going to change their hand much.
 
Moxie Mike said:
If this were to occur in my game, since I try to mimic a casino environment as much as possible in terms of rule enforcement, I would instruct the dealer to finish the deal and resume action with the player who's yet to act.

UTG and UTG+1 might bitch if they're of the personality to do so... but if they folded a 4-card hand... chances are that fifth card wasn't going to change their hand much.
Click to expand...
Perfect casino copy if thats what you're looking for: ignore the dealers error and blame the players, dismiss the players that are unhappy, plus a bonus for the silly comment about the 5th card not changing anything in a hi/lo game. Just perfect!
 
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upNdown said:
Sounds like a misdeal to me. There’s been a raise and nobody has a legal hand.
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In a hand of Hold 'em, action is on the Button who raises. It is discovered that he only has one card.

Do we declare a misdeal, kill his hand, or simply pitch him the top card from the stub?
 
If there was any prior action, I’m pretty sure his hand is dead.
If not, if we learn he only has one card after he has bet, I think that in and of itself is significant action to kill his illegal hand.
 
@upNdown you are correct by TDA rules (Rule #37). I think I just pitch him a card in a home game. The timing element seems meaningless to me:

A player on the button dealt too few cards should announce it immediately. Missing button cards may be replaced even after substantial action if permitted for the game type. However, if the button acts on a hand with too few cards (by check or bet), the button’s hand is dead.
Click to expand...
That said, I play this hand as a four-card hand. Two players have already decided based on that understanding, and it is the least destructive.
 
glynn said:
@upNdown you are correct by TDA rules (Rule #37). I think I just pitch him a card in a home game. The timing element seems meaningless to me:


That said, I play this hand as a four-card hand. Two players have already decided based on that understanding, and it is the least destructive.
Click to expand...
For a home game, I don’t have a problem with it either way. I tend to lean toward formal rules because it’s the easiest thing to do. But if I’d been in that hand and people wanted to play it out as PLO, that’s fine, it makes no difference to me.
 
pltrgyst said:
If you call it Congress, there'll never be any action...
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I think this wins the interwebz for the day! :D

Re the OP, in our games, we would probably redeal... no big thang... Fwiw, I can't remember any time that situation has happened in our games. On the flip side, I can't count the number of times people have discarded when they didn't need to (e.g. been playing pineapple PLO8 and then switching to BigO) or there's been a few times where I dealt too many cards and either switched games (e.g. dealing BigO, giving 1 too many and switching to SOHE, before anyone has looked at any cards) or everyone just started off with a better starting hand... haha
 
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umbkcshah said:
If the players really thought it was Big O, no one would have acted or the 'serious player' would say something once the dealer stopped after 4 cards. However it is unclear.

My guess is the game change wasn't clearly announced or much drinking involved
Click to expand...

If even one of the players assumed it was high-low, and either mucked or bet their hand based on that, continuing the hand as high only is pretty unfair. Ditto the other way around. Pull everything back then.
 
We play Holdem and pass a button for 1 hand of PLO/orbit. At least once a night someone deals 2 cards when they should deal 4, and no one catches it until action has passed. We play the hand out as Holdem and play PLO the next hand.

So for this, i say play it out and move to the correct game next hand.
 

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