Tourney Hello from Orlando... New to home tournament format, need structure advice. (1 Viewer)

Keptanony

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Happy New Year PCFers. I am relatively new to PCF and I have some basic (probably stupid) questions to most on here. My son plays baseball (senior in HS, but half his friends are home from college for the holiday break} and have been playing travel ball with most of the same kids since he was 9yrs old. A few times a year we get all the families together just to hang out and have fun. We have anywhere from 25-30 people come. In the process of hosting the gathering this past week, we realized that all the boys disappeared to my poker room to play Hold 'Em for fun. Of course some of us parents decided we wanted to get in on the action, so we set up a parent/kid tournament format game for this Monday with prizes for top finishers.

Here's my dilemma, I thought we might get 4 sets of families (8 players) but as of right now, I have 11, possibly 12 that want to play. I have no clue if I should limit to 1 table and 10 people, or allow more people and try to split into two tables. If we split, I have searched for best ways to play 12 people at 2 tables but have been stumped on when and how to combine the 2 tables. Should we put the kids at 1 table first, the adults at the other table, and then start combining after chip stacks change? When would this be done?

Here is the tournament format that I was thinking would work best:

I only have 1/5/25/100 chip set that I just got from TCR in the BFS - 1000 chips total so yes, I know it's a cash set vs. tourney set, but that's what I'm working with for now. LOL.

10 PLAYERS (Possibly 12): (No colluding at the table. They may be our kids, but they are all 18+and this is war, to the victors go the spoils!!)

BUY-IN: $20 pp (Parents are covering for the kids.)

FORMAT: T1000 Texas Hold ‘em Tournament

BLINDS: $5/$10 and will double every 25-30 minutes, but can change if we need to speed up the night.

RE-BUY: 1 time within the first hour.

POT LIMIT: No limit

PRIZE POOL TOTAL: $180 (Re-buys will be added to prize pool and possibly create a 4th Place prize. Top winners may choose to split pot if agreed upon. )
1st Place: $100 prize value
2nd Place: $70 prize value
3rd Place: $30 prize value

BOUNTIES: Was possibly thinking about reducing prize pool and creating bounties for some of us parents that play more than the kids.

START TIME: 6:00pm

Any feedback or advice would be great. I am sure I am missing something with all of this. Thanks again.

Correction - Prize pool total is $200 split.
 

BPTDirector

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You could have starting stacks of your 5/25/100 chips of 10 10 and 7 for 1000 to each player. Blinds at 5/10 then graduate to 10/25 then 25/50 on up to 50/100 then 100/200 and so on every half hour. Combine to a single table when you get to 10 players drawing for seats. That would be the simplest way. There are other ways just tried to keep it simple for you. Good luck.
 

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I wouldn't double every level. Maybe the first level but after that it should be 50% increase per level at the absolute most.
 

Schmendr1ck

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Howdy, fellow Orlandonian!

I've got a few comments/suggestions for you:

I have 11, possibly 12 that want to play. I have no clue if I should limit to 1 table and 10 people, or allow more people and try to split into two tables. If we split, I have searched for best ways to play 12 people at 2 tables but have been stumped on when and how to combine the 2 tables. Should we put the kids at 1 table first, the adults at the other table, and then start combining after chip stacks change? When would this be done?

Here is the tournament format that I was thinking would work best:

I only have 1/5/25/100 chip set that I just got from TCR in the BFS - 1000 chips total so yes, I know it's a cash set vs. tourney set, but that's what I'm working with for now. LOL.

10 PLAYERS (Possibly 12): (No colluding at the table. They may be our kids, but they are all 18+and this is war, to the victors go the spoils!!)
My general preference for tourneys is nine players per table, but I will go to ten when necessary.

So in your spot, I would start the tourney with two tables for 11-12 players, one table for 10 or fewer. If you have two tables, combine when you get down to nine players.

Also, I suggest you draw randomly for seats. It helps avoid collusion and also forces the kids to listen to dad jokes all night.

FORMAT: T1000 Texas Hold ‘em Tournament

BLINDS: $5/$10 and will double every 25-30 minutes, but can change if we need to speed up the night.
I think tournaments are more fun when you crank up the pressure slowly and steadily. I'd rather see smaller increases every 10-15 minutes than a huge jump every half-hour.

What's the breakdown of your set? How long do you want the tourney to last (on average)? That info would help us put together a blind structure.
 

Ben8257

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Welcome @Keptanony , first off there is absolutely nothing wrong with running a T1 based tournament! That's they way they all started many years ago. We still run them.in our turbo/warm up sets. The value on a chips is just a number of units. Most casinos now run T100 based tourneys and guess what... that is exactly the same as T1 except you added a couple zeros! Congratulations. Lol

So now we discuss breakdown. Well I don't know the parameters of your set, but if you can swing it I would recommend (10) T1/ (8) T5/ (6) T25/ (3) T100s for a T500 starting stacks AKA 250BBs.

The length of your levels Is dependent on how long you want this game to last. I like 20 minute levels. 1/2, 2/4, 3/6 chip up the T1s/ break, 5/10, 10/20, 15/30, chip up the T5s/break, 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300, chip up the T25s/break, 200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 600/1,200, many say avoid 100% jumps but really it works fine.

One 10 person table is tight but fine, but also never turn away players. If you can split it into two tables. When one table is more than 1 player difference than the other (ex. One table has 6 the other has 4) then you need to move one player based off of the dealer position, wherever you open seat is, say coming into the sm blind then you grab the next player to be small blind from the other table. Combine tables for your final table at 9 players.

I wouldn't worry about bounties myself for a new game, just adds another level of complication to what is likely already going to be difficult as it sounds like you will have many new tournament players learning here.

Best of luck and feel free to reach out with any additional questions.

Fellow Chipper Ben

BTW our T1 based sets starting stacks
20210303_163048.jpg

20211221_184757.jpg
 
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Need to decide how long the tournament should last. A good 2 table tournament should be 4-5 hours long. It would look something like this…

T1000 structure with T1 base 15 minute levels: 2/4, 3/6, 4/8, 5/10, 6/12, 8/16. 90 mins in, 10 min break, color up 1s. 10/20, 15/30, 20/40, 25/50, 30/60, 40/80. 3 hours in, final break, color up 5s. 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300, 200/400, 250/500.

Of course you can lengthen or shorten it by playing with the level times or altering the structure. I always suggest to completely avoid doubling the blinds at any point, even the first level. It’s bad for the game.
 

Keptanony

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You could have starting stacks of your 5/25/100 chips of 10 10 and 7 for 1000 to each player. Blinds at 5/10 then graduate to 10/25 then 25/50 on up to 50/100 then 100/200 and so on every half hour. Combine to a single table when you get to 10 players drawing for seats. That would be the simplest way. There are other ways just tried to keep it simple for you. Good luck.
The goal is to keep it simple, especially with the kids. Thanks for the input.

Howdy, fellow Orlandonian!

I've got a few comments/suggestions for you:


My general preference for tourneys is nine players per table, but I will go to ten when necessary.

So in your spot, I would start the tourney with two tables for 11-12 players, one table for 10 or fewer. If you have two tables, combine when you get down to nine players.

Also, I suggest you draw randomly for seats. It helps avoid collusion and also forces the kids to listen to dad jokes all night.


I think tournaments are more fun when you crank up the pressure slowly and steadily. I'd rather see smaller increases every 10-15 minutes than a huge jump every half-hour.

What's the breakdown of your set? How long do you want the tourney to last (on average)? That info would help us put together a blind structure.
I like the thought of the smaller blinds more often. I have 350 $1s, 400 $5s, 150 $25s, 100 $100s. We’re starting at 6pm, would like to be done by 10p or 11p. Would you split the tables evenly?

Welcome @Keptanony , first off there is absolutely nothing wrong with running a T1 based tournament! That's they way they all started many years ago. We still run them.in our turbo/warm up sets. The value on a chips is just a number of units. Most casinos now run T100 based tourneys and guess what... that is exactly the same as T1 except you added a couple zeros! Congratulations. Lol

So now we discuss breakdown. Well I don't know the parameters of your set, but if you can swing it I would recommend (10) T1/ (8) T5/ (6) T25/ (3) T100s for a T500 starting stacks AKA 250BBs.

The length of your levels Is dependent on how long you want this game to last. I like 20 minute levels. 1/2, 2/4, 3/6 chip up the T1s/ break, 5/10, 10/20, 15/30, chip up the T5s/break, 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300, chip up the T25s/break, 200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 600/1,200, many say avoid 100% jumps but really it works fine.

One 10 person table is tight but fine, but also never turn away players. If you can split it into two tables. When one table is more than 1 player difference than the other (ex. One table has 6 the other has 4) then you need to move one player based off of the dealer position, wherever you open seat is, say coming into the sm blind then you grab the next player to be small blind from the other table. Combine tables for your final table at 9 players.

I wouldn't worry about bounties myself for a new game, just adds another level of complication to what is likely already going to be difficult as it sounds like you will have many new tournament players learning here.

Best of luck and feel free to reach out with any additional questions.

Fellow Chipper Ben

BTW our T1 based sets starting stacks
View attachment 839399
View attachment 839400
Thank you for the tourney breakdown, really helps decide starting stacks. Your chips are incredible. I just bought my first set from Jim at TCR, so they’re not the most beautiful, but they look and feel better than the plastic dice chips I’ve been playing with. Lol. Just starting this whole chip thing and I already think I have a problem.

Need to decide how long the tournament should last. A good 2 table tournament should be 4-5 hours long. It would look something like this…

T1000 structure with T1 base 15 minute levels: 2/4, 3/6, 4/8, 5/10, 6/12, 8/16. 90 mins in, 10 min break, color up 1s. 10/20, 15/30, 20/40, 25/50, 30/60, 40/80. 3 hours in, final break, color up 5s. 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300, 200/400, 250/500.

Of course you can lengthen or shorten it by playing with the level times or altering the structure. I always suggest to completely avoid doubling the blinds at any point, even the first level. It’s bad for the game.
Out of curiosity why is it bad for the game to double the blinds?
 
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Out of curiosity why is it bad for the game to double the blinds?
Because it drastically changes the game instantly rather than a gradual progression. For example let’s say you’re halfway through the tournament, 6 players left with a somewhat healthy 50 big blind average stack. The very next hand the average is 25 with the short stacks likely down to around 10 and desperate to shove and double up.
 

Taghkanic

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I normally would rant that 9-handed is already too many for poker—I find 7/8 player games much better. 12-handed? Insanity. But:

(A) This involves family, including kids; it’s probably more fun for everyone to start at the same table.

(B) It’s a fun family tournament, and you want everyone to get a decent amount of play time in, so the slowness of 12-handed isn’t such an issue.

(C) You’ll be down to 9-handed soon enough, and the complications of getting (mostly) inexperienced players to switch or combine tables or move all their chips isn’t really worth it.

So if you have a table big enough, and can figure out a starting stack breakdown that works for what you have, go for as many as a dozen. (Note: Always a strong possibility that a few people you expected don’t actually play.)

If it grows beyond 12, then I’d definitely split it up.
 

Keptanony

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I normally would rant that 9-handed is already too many for poker—I find 7/8 player games much better. 12-handed? Insanity. But:

(A) This involves family, including kids; it’s probably more fun for everyone to start at the same table.

(B) It’s a fun family tournament, and you want everyone to get a decent amount of play time in, so the slowness of 12-handed isn’t such an issue.

(C) You’ll be down to 9-handed soon enough, and the complications of getting (mostly) inexperienced players to switch or combine tables or move all their chips isn’t really worth it.

So if you have a table big enough, and can figure out a starting stack breakdown that works for what you have, go for as many as a dozen. (Note: Always a strong possibility that a few people you expected don’t actually play.)

If it grows beyond 12, then I’d definitely split it up.
I was thinking the exact same thoughts as you. I don’t normally do tournament style format. I have a few groups of guys that do different cash stakes depending on the group. This is new to me but thought it would be best for the kids, they’re not the most experienced card players so we wanted to make it fun.
 

Ben8257

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It is very true that doubling the blinds is cutting your stack in half instantly, especially at level one. Say someone is a more conservative player (myself) when I get an invite to a game I want to know the lenght of the blind levels, the number of big blinds I am starting with and the blind structure. There is a lot of information within that... shorter blind levels woth big jumps typically means that person is looking for this to be ran in a "turbo" type fashion.

So in our regular league game hosted by @krafticus we start with 10k (200BB) in chips and the blind structure is 25/50, 25/75, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300 with 25 minute levels. You can see that is a smooth transition and never any harsh jumps instantly cutting your stack in half. If it was 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400 then in 4 blind levels you are down to just 25 Big Blinds. That game would play very fast and not be a lot of fun, unless your levels are really long. It is all a balance.

So back to the chips we have, @SlowPokeTony suggested a T1k starting stack and 2/4 for the first level. (4 x 250 = 1,000 so we are starting with 250 big blinds which is very healthy) my concern here is your set will be limited on rebuys because you don't have any T500 chips. I would prefer to keep it at 1/2 starting level with 500 in chips. We can avoid the 100% increases by going 1/2, 1/3, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, 8/16 chip up the 1s/ break, 10/20, 15/30, 20/40, 30/60, chip up the 5s/ break 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300, chip up the 25s/break 200/400, 300/600, 400/800, but even with 20 minute levels here we have 17 levels, 17 x 20 = 340 minutes plus breaks ouch so if we drop it to 15 minute levels (4hrs 15 minutes) we are getting it back to the allotted time frame for the game. We have 3 allotted breaks say 10 minutes each) often these get chopped but if you plan to play it out you get more aggressive if it is still going 600/1200, 1000/2000 you would really only need this if you had a bunch of rebuys which I doubt and with your limited set I would personally limit the rebuys anyways.

Let's do a set breakdown so we know what we need.
(350) $1 (400) $5 (150) $25 (100) $100 is our set.

12 players of T500 Starting stacks

(10) x 1 = 10 x 12 = 120
(8) x 5 = 40 x 12 = 96
(6) x 25 = 150 x 12 = 72
(3) x 100 = 300 x 12 = 36

Let's limit this to 1 rebuy per player.
First 6 rebuys:
(5) x 5 = 25 x 6 = 30
(3) x 25 = 75 x 6 = 18
(4) x 100 = 400 x 6 = 24

Already we are running out of T100s here, going to continue but you can see the issue, not everyone will rebuy so let's hope we keep it to 6.

Chips in play now we have
(120) 1 (126) 5 (90) 25 (60) 100

Chip up #1 no T1s x 120= 120/(round up means anyone less than 5 would get a 5, you can also race but I prefer round up so we allow an extra 5 per player or 12 x 5 = 60) 180

So we need (36) T5s at this level for chipping up

Chip up #2 no T5s x 162 = 810/(round up) 1,100

We need (24) T25s (5) T100s

Chip up #3 no T25s x 114 = 2,850/(round up we don't need as many as players are likely eliminated) 3,700

We need (37) T100s which puts us 2 over our set... if you can find a couple $500s it would cover this, but honestly I go heavy on the round ups so you should be fine.

Total chips in play
(120) T1
(162) T5
(114) T25
(102) T100

Just trying to help. That is a long ass Ben book of a post. Remember there are 1000 ways to skin a cat. Do what works for you! I'm sure 5 members will chime in with what I say is wrong but I promise it works! Lol
 
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I would prefer to keep it at 1/2 starting level with 500 in chips. We can avoid the 100% increases by going 1/2, 1/3, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, 8/16 chip up the 1s/ break,
Fair point. I only said T1000 because that’s what was requested in the original post. But you’re right it’s difficult without any 500s unless they have a lot of chips.
 

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I suggested what I did based on fun, not a long drawn out tournament that we prefer here, this seemed like something they would want to end in two to three hours. Certainly if OP wants a longer structure adding incremental blind rounds could easily be done plus he suggested T1000 not me so I was going on his outline. You know there are fun ways to play don’t you? Sorry I was the first to reply. Was just trying to help when it was asked for.
 

Keptanony

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I want to thank everyone that gave input on the format. As is Murphy's Law, the game tonight has been postponed as a few of the players have tested positive for COVID. Sucks, but gives me a little more time to nail down the tourney process. I am going to start with a $500 stack like @Ben8257 suggested with similar blind structures. Thanks again for everyone's feedback, it was more than helpful.
 

Keptanony

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Howdy, fellow Orlandonian!

I've got a few comments/suggestions for you:


My general preference for tourneys is nine players per table, but I will go to ten when necessary.

So in your spot, I would start the tourney with two tables for 11-12 players, one table for 10 or fewer. If you have two tables, combine when you get down to nine players.

Also, I suggest you draw randomly for seats. It helps avoid collusion and also forces the kids to listen to dad jokes all night.


I think tournaments are more fun when you crank up the pressure slowly and steadily. I'd rather see smaller increases every 10-15 minutes than a huge jump every half-hour.

What's the breakdown of your set? How long do you want the tourney to last (on average)? That info would help us put together a blind structure
@Schmendr1ck what part of Orlando are you in?
 

Schmendr1ck

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Tucked behind MetroWest Golf Club.
Well if you ever feel like crossing town for a .25/.50 NL game, feel free to send me a PM. We play one Saturday a month, and if this COVID surge burns out soon, I hope to have a game before the end of January.
 

Keptanony

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Well if you ever feel like crossing town for a .25/.50 NL game, feel free to send me a PM. We play one Saturday a month, and if this COVID surge burns out soon, I hope to have a game before the end of January.

Well if you ever feel like crossing town for a .25/.50 NL game, feel free to send me a PM. We play one Saturday a month, and if this COVID surge burns out soon, I hope to have a game before the end of January.
Appreciate the invite. I have a few groups of guys that play too. One group does .25/.50 NL, one does $1/$2 NL, and the third does a mix of games with micro stakes. I don't host the $1/$2 NL game, that one can get a little out-of-hand sometimes but still fun. We try to play once or twice a month if possible. The invite would be open on this side of town for you as well. Let me know when you try to get together again and we'll see if it works out.
 
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