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Have we finally reached market saturation?? (3 Viewers)

DirtyTIVA said:
Just my personal opinion here but I think if the public doesn’t know who sold the chips and at what transaction price I would say it was a private deal. Nothing wrong with it but certainly there was a point to not making everything known.

I could also say my Kings Castle sale resulted from that trade thread I put up publicly.
Click to expand...

I want to correct myself. I didn’t have the correct understanding of the facts. This has since been pointed out to me. Apologies for my misunderstanding :confused must be old age kicking in.
 
DirtyTIVA said:
I want to correct myself. I didn’t have the correct understanding of the facts. This has since been pointed out to me. Apologies for my misunderstanding :confused must be old age kicking in.
Click to expand...
I don’t know what’s happening anymore.

IMG_2965.gif


Time for some promethazine and sleep. Maybe it’ll help me see the whole chipping market matrix.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
I don’t know or interact with your circles much as they’re not that active here, so no clue as to y’all’s experiences but good to hear.
Click to expand...
My circles have always been folks looking to get together to splash pots and have a good time.
You do know these people cause you’ve been to some of the same meetups as I.

BarrieJ3 said:
Your last public thread for sale or purchase was like half a decade ago, so not sure how much current knowledge of current/newer chippers and their financial exchanges you have. (I don’t claim to have a clue, you might wheel and deal privately, you might engage buy/sales wise elsewhere, etc.)
Click to expand...
Haven’t ever sold much except for a set of HS Cleveland and some singles here and there.
My tastes purchase wise are very specific and less likely most of the time to be public.

When chipping became more flipping amongst many members ( New and Old) Over time I lost much of my interest in others financial exchanges.
BarrieJ3 said:
I don’t think dislike is that strong, lol the words that come up at meetups and in PMs and texts are far worse than that - jokes no doubt, but still far worse.
Click to expand...
On one point you say “jokes no doubt” but claim “dislike” isn’t that strong.
Just seems contradictory to me or like you’re trying to have it both ways?

I wouldn’t dislike someone I claimed to know was joking.
BarrieJ3 said:
There are absolutely a group of chippers that a large % of folks would actively avoid based on their dealings. Again, it’s private and word of mouth thing - who knows if it’s just small social circles or widespread - we have no clue because public feedback isn’t a real thing.
Click to expand...
Lots of truth here. I would say someone who has been a consistently honest and reliable chipper/member would never have to be concerned about being someone in that group you mention.
BarrieJ3 said:
Everyone’s entitled to opinion and the more people that engage and post the better! I’m sure you’re still super active in chipping, buying/selling, and have your finger on the pulse of the market, but…..that all might not be true too based on post history. Which is….the primary topic at hand.
Click to expand...
From someone who claims they’re “not a chipper?”
For me personally, being less active in the hobby could be a result of the hobby and some of its members being far less interesting to me than at one time.

Could also be I have a real life, a real job and a lot less time to pointlessly ramble on about nothing on a website associated with a personal hobby.
BarrieJ3 said:
And hey, it’s always nice to find a hobby where I’m still a kid in comparison! Lol despite the whole marriage thing, family with kids, start and sold businesses, worked and climbed ladder in different industries, lived all over the country and globe, etc., chipping wise held meetups, tattoos, bought and sold hundreds of sets, banned, have a chipping site for historical reference, played wsop last couple years, etc.
Click to expand...
Just a figure of speech Jeff but I appreciate you sharing with me all the reasons you’re not a kid.
I must admit my maturity level hasn’t progressed much past the age of 17, I still love a good poop joke.

All that’s really changed is the level of responsibility I’ve taken on and how I go about taking care of it like an adult.
BarrieJ3 said:
One day I’ll have some experience and better well rounded viewpoints!
Click to expand...
You’ve had some really good ones at times in the past when you seemed more principled and less who can I look good to today.
 
Lil Tuna said:
My circles have always been folks looking to get together to splash pots and have a good time.
You do know these people cause you’ve been to some of the same meetups as I.


Haven’t ever sold much except for a set of HS Cleveland and some singles here and there.
My tastes purchase wise are very specific and less likely most of the time to be public.

When chipping became more flipping amongst many members ( New and Old) Over time I lost much of my interest in others financial exchanges.

On one point you say “jokes no doubt” but claim “dislike” isn’t that strong.
Just seems contradictory to me or like you’re trying to have it both ways?

I wouldn’t dislike someone I claimed to know was joking.

Lots of truth here. I would say someone who has been a consistently honest and reliable chipper/member would never have to be concerned about being someone in that group you mention.

From someone who claims they’re “not a chipper?”
For me personally, being less active in the hobby could be a result of the hobby and some of its members being far less interesting to me than at one time.

Could also be I have a real life, a real job and a lot less time to pointlessly ramble on about nothing on a website associated with a personal hobby.

Just a figure of speech Jeff but I appreciate you sharing with me all the reasons you’re not a kid.
I must admit my maturity level hasn’t progressed much past the age of 17, I still love a good poop joke.

All that’s really changed is the level of responsibility I’ve taken on and how I go about taking care of it like an adult.

You’ve had some really good ones at times in the past when you seemed more principled and less who can I look good to today.
Click to expand...
Another thread gone this way.

Simply picking apart piece by piece to argue every line for arguments sake, despite not actually understanding half of what I was saying.

You’re only here for this nonsense, I gave you the response you were looking for, and here we are. Shame on me.

Not a thread left that y’all won’t interrupt and ruin good discussion between members with this nonsense. It’s too fucking bad. Really, legitimately is.

I doubt I keep my promise as I never have before, but I sincerely hope I stick to this being the last response you’ll see from me to you. I truly believe you aren’t worth the time and effort, not in a mean way, simply from a cost/effort/results/worth perspective.

Time to scrape y’all off deez and let my poor scrotum heal.

Goodbye little friend.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
Another thread gone this way.

Simply picking apart piece by piece to argue every line for arguments sake, despite not actually understanding half of what I was saying.

You’re only here for this nonsense, I gave you the response you were looking for, and here we are. Shame on me.

Not a thread left that y’all won’t interrupt and ruin good discussion between members with this nonsense. It’s too fucking bad. Really, legitimately is.

I doubt I keep my promise as I never have before, but I sincerely hope I stick to this being the last response you’ll see from me to you. I truly believe you aren’t worth the time and effort, not in a mean way, simply from a cost/effort/results/worth perspective.

Time to scrape y’all off deez and let my poor scrotum heal.

Goodbye little friend.
Click to expand...
I’ve got an idea…….next time you’re back, just post a list of the folks who are aloud to respond to your nonsense and then we’ll know. ;)
Enjoy the kiddie pool kid. Just tried being honest with ya and now you’re all the victim again it seems. :unsure:
1750747190190.gif
 
I’ve been driving cars for 50+ years. I still don’t understand why the NASCAR drivers won’t take driving tips from me. I mean I’m sitting right here, all they have to do is ask me. I’m a grown up driver after all, with decades of experience with a multitude of different makes and models. But NASCAR drivers have special cars and stuff that an ordinary driver doesn’t have, it’s just not fair that I can’t buy their stuff at my local minimart. Why cruel world, why!!!!
 
This thread is an awesome and quite fun!

As a respectful, five-year plus chipper, I’d say good things are available at reasonable (defined as current market average) prices if you exercise patience and engage directly with members as needed.

I have no idea what is trading behind the scenes or whether it’s at higher or lower prices - or if it’s just the opportunity that I’m missing out on. I’d love to know for curiosity sake, but again, there is plenty of good supply in the market.

Are there various types of tools on this forum that I avoid. Yup, they can’t help but make themselves known. Thankfully, some fade away.

Finally, I have to believe that Tina has helped hasten market saturation. Buying a “grail” set for $3225 vs. the same design Tina set for $225 is a financial and mental hurdle even for semi-chip-addicted members. Plus playing with a Tina set is worry-free. Who cares about pizza grease on Tina chips?!

Chip-on!
 
BirdCage said:
I have no idea what is trading behind the scenes or whether it’s at higher or lower prices - or if it’s just the opportunity that I’m missing out on. I’d love to know for curiosity sake
Click to expand...

If I'm selling something and there is a chipper that I have a relationship with that I know is interested in the chips. I will reach out to them privately. Sometimes I will sell at my cost. Sometimes I will sell between my cost and "fair market value". If I am posting it in the want adds, or someone reaches out to me that I don't have a relationship with. I will sell at "fair market value".

I recently sold a TRK set that I acquired from @Jeevansluck a while back. I thought about only marking it up a bit, but then decided to sell it at market value. Then I used the money from the sales to pay for two vacations this year with my lovely bride!
 
Serious chipping for play, as opposed to singles collecting, is all over the place from my perspective as somebody who’s drifted in and out since the late 90s. I mean, there’s no doubt there’s been some significant changes, the two biggest of which I would say are the loss all but one clay producer to the home market (TRK & BCC are really gone, Paulson is a weird case) and the arrival of Tina.

Even though I’ve been around a while, I’ve only actually done a handful of sales. Both public and private for amounts that are, at least for me, significant. Others might not even blink at them (who knows). I’ve been surprised at both the prices something sell for and the price is something will not sell for. I think I have an idea of what is really desirable and won’t end up on the market for long, but there are still sets I can’t believe linger in marketplace.
 
davislane said:
Calculate Zach Galifianakis GIF

did you just reveal the total order size without revealing the total order size. :cool
Click to expand...
@davislane I had already figured out that ballpark based off of Jim's updates on sets remaining and percentages sold previously.

I like this. I'd rather see smaller runs more often than huge orders with not as much exclusivity to them. I would love it if these chips never hit eBay.
 
extreme517 said:
@davislane I had already figured out that ballpark based off of Jim's updates on sets remaining and percentages sold previously.

I like this. I'd rather see smaller runs more often than huge orders with not as much exclusivity to them. I would love it if these chips never hit eBay.
Click to expand...
The problem with smaller runs is they’ll go to the deep pockets and become completely unobtainable to the Everyman. Jim has shown a willingness to auction when appropriate, and for shorter runs, it’s appropriate.
 
When you have 15 cash sets and 21 tournament sets it’s really hard to convince yourself you need another, no matter what the set is or the price. (Numbers are for illustrative purposes only, just know there’s a large number for everyone eventually)
It doesn’t matter if they are Paulsons or Tina’s or CPC or if they were cheap, free, or the most expensive thing you’ve ever bought, or if you’ve been on PCF for ten years or ten minutes.

I think it has something to do with moving them around.

But when you have a few hundred collectors reach that plateau it’s bound to become saturated if stuff keeps coming along.
 
TheChipVault said:
great pick up on that Sundance set... I would have been a buyer on that one.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think I would've done stupid things if I stumbled into that thread earlier that day. I love those Sundance chips and that set is in amazing condition!

BarrieJ3 said:
Ugh yeah, lol reminds me of my hotstamp journey. Searching for the right pieces for years, and I waited too long.

Eventually they became popular and everything became trade bait.

lol I bet for the last forever the best time to start chipping was 20 years ago, and if you haven’t started the next best time is now.

I agree, I’d hate to start chipping now, but the old school guys prob would’ve hated to start when I started, and so on.

I agree, love the topic and convo, because I don’t think any of us have the real answer. And that’s intentional, because if we really wanted to, we would take steps towards a more transparent landscape with tracking of costs and exchanges.
Click to expand...
Oh man...I've been around way too long! I can share how my perspective and journey have changed over time. I was first on ChipTalk 20+ years ago and loved that forum. Chipping was a different animal then as far as what was available for customization.

I was a sucker for clay chips the second I played with Paulson chips at a casino. I had a real bad hang up about spending more for a chip than what it's face value was in a game. I didn't want anyone to pocket expensive chips and it just didn't logically make sense to me to spend over face value for fracs and dollar chips. So, that was a self-imposed barrier that kept me from picking up chips I truly loved.

I used to spend so much time on @TheChipVault site looking at Ambassador Plaza chips...those were my favorite chips. I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. My first decent set was a set of ceramic Nevada Jacks I earned through rakeback on Party Poker way back then. I still have those somewhere...LOL! (For the record, I have never sold a chip.)

I wanted a set of clay chips, so finally found some mint racks of Rincon $1 chips that were HHR mold. These were and still are amazing chips. The quality on these is a whole different level than HHRs made for the home market. I paid $200 for 300 of these $1 chips. It was virtually impossible to fill these out with other actual real Rincon denoms, so I ordered some HHR blanks from ASM and had labels made. I think solid blank HHRs back then were 40 cents each? So my quarters cost me more than face value, but that was okay. I don't remember what the cost was on the 312 HHR blanks...maybe 50 cents?

Labeling chips back in 2006 was nothing like today. My labels were printed on sheets of paper Avery labels that I then oversprayed with clear satin spray can finish to give them a bit of texture and keep the ink from smearing. They have held up reasonably well, but these are not as thin and professional as what Gear has evolved into. This set of ASM HHRs worked really well for me. Great quality and have held up nicely all these years. I have a pile of them in front of me right now!

@BarrieJ3 I can totally relate about marriage, kids, and life in general being very busy so there were seasons I was more engaged in the community than others. The ChipTalk era was awesome for me. I love forums and they are mostly a dead thing now. I jumped on PCF pretty early on, but then life got busy and I had some seasons of not really logging in much at all.

I have noticed plenty of whining over many years about NAGBs/favorites/offline deals, etc. To me, I think it's fairly simple:
  • 1) I would much rather have chippers working together to come up with creative ways to get cool chips made that never would have existed otherwise.
  • 2) I like hobbies and I like camaraderie, but it can be somewhat hard to find in some hobbies. People get energized when they connect with others and build relationships.
  • I think the meetups are a huge factor in people getting connected in real life. It took me until this year to finally attend a meetup and it was a highlight for me to meet so many great people that just wanted to have a good time around a shared interest. I can't say enough good things about my experience.
  • I think that varying economic situations/means are a factor in all of this.
    • I think some/many of the NAGB/meetup folks are in stages of life where they have the means to "blow money" on chips/travel, etc.
    • Some people that are grinding along at life and just trying to keep moving have a much higher opportunity cost if trying to think about picking up desirable clay chip sets.
    • There are others that don't even bat an eye when buying a set they want and it doesn't have long-term repercussions in other areas of their lives. To some, spending $10K feels no different than spending $100. So yeah...my impression is that plenty of the NAGBers don't need to make a profit on chips and that the thrill of the chase or the thrill of getting "dream" chips made is the real motivation and fun.
    • I think too often people project their own struggles, emotions, and greed onto other peoples' actions. It's better to take a step back and get some perspective. These are just chips. They are fun. They don't really matter. You can only use one set at a time anyhow, etc. It's going to be okay. I have participated in other hobbies where it is literally impossible to have everything, so I long ago stopped caring about being a completionist in any way.
  • People that are feeling negative need to change their paradigm. It's not about being an "insider" or an "outsider". I suppose I am an "outsider" as I'm not part of any inner circle. But, you know what? That's on me or you to go engage with people, talk/post, build friendships, bounce ideas around, etc. You can engage with the PCF community as little or as much as you want.
  • I haven't had any bad experiences here or from old ChipTalk days. Life is what you make of it. All the folks I've interacted with here and the few I have gotten to meet in person are all friendly, helpful people.
In regard to a "golden era" of chipping, yes 20 years ago in retrospect was a great time to buy chips that are now unobtanium. That said, I try to always be forward-looking. The quality of options available now crushes anything that was happening 20 years ago. And all the accessories? Affordable tables, custom toppers/felts, dealer buttons, cut cards, etc. It is so much easier to reasonably put together a cool home setup than ever before.

Yes, certain "premium" chips are always going to hit the pocketbook more than we'd like. But, I have also seen casino-used Paulson playable sets go for less than Chinese chips. So, with patience and attentiveness to the forums it is possible to find decent clay chip sets that won't break the bank. If you want something nicer/custom, then get a side hustle and "chip away" at it until you can get something you like more. Everything in due time.

I think there is a wealth of knowledge, creativity, and ingenuity here at PCF. There is much to be picked up by searching and reading through the forums.
 
Last edited:
extreme517 said:
Yeah, I think I would've done stupid things if I stumbled into that thread earlier that day. I love those Sundance chips and that set is in amazing condition!


Oh man...I've been around way too long! I can share how my perspective and journey have changed over time. I was first on ChipTalk 20+ years ago and loved that forum. Chipping was a different animal then as far as what was available for customization.

I was a sucker for clay chips the second I played with Paulson chips at a casino. I had a real bad hang up about spending more for a chip than what it's face value was in a game. I didn't want anyone to pocket expensive chips and it just didn't logically make sense to me to spend over face value for fracs and dollar chips. So, that was a self-imposed barrier that kept me from picking up chips I truly loved.

I used to spend so much time on @TheChipVault site looking at Ambassador Plaza chips...those were my favorite chips. I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. My first decent set was a set of ceramic Nevada Jacks I earned through rakeback on Party Poker way back then. I still have those somewhere...LOL! (For the record, I have never sold a chip.)

I wanted a set of clay chips, so finally found some mint racks Rincon $1 chips that were HHR mold. These were and still are amazing chips. The quality on these is a whole different level than HHRs made for the home market. I paid $200 for 300 of these $1 chips. It was virtually impossible to fill these out with other actual real Rincon denoms, so I ordered some HHR blanks from ASM and had labels made. I think solid blank HHRs back then were 40 cents each? So my quarters cost me more than face value, but that was okay. I don't remember what the cost was on the 312 HHR blanks...maybe 50 cents?

Labeling chips back in 2006 was nothing like today. My labels were printed on sheets of paper Avery labels that I then oversprayed with clear satin spray can finish to give them a bit of texture and keep the ink from smearing. They have held up reasonably well, but these are not as thin and professional as what Gear has evolved into. This set of ASM HHRs worked really well for me. Great quality and have held up nicely all these years. I have a pile of them in front of me right now!

@BarrieJ3 I can totally relate about marriage, kids, and life in general being very busy so there were seasons I was more engaged in the community than others. The ChipTalk era was awesome for me. I love forums and they are mostly a dead thing now. I jumped on PCF pretty early on, but then life got busy and I had some seasons of not really logging in much at all.

I have noticed plenty of whining over many years about NAGBs/favorites/offline deals, etc. To me, I think it's fairly simple:
  • 1) I would much rather have chippers working together to come up with creative ways to get cool chips made that never would have existed otherwise.
  • 2) I like hobbies and I like camaraderie, but it can be somewhat hard to find in some hobbies. People get energized when they connect with others iand build relationships.
  • I think the meetups are a huge factor in people getting connected in real life. It took me until this year to finally attend a meetup and it was a highlight for me to meet so many great people that just wanted to have a good time around a shared interest. I can't say enough good things about my experience.
  • I think that varying economic situations/means are a factor in all of this.
    • I think some/many of the NAGB/meetup folks are in stages of life where they have the means to "blow money" on chips/travel, etc.
    • Some people that are grinding along at life and just trying to keep moving have a much higher opportunity cost if trying to think about picking up desirable clay chip sets.
    • There are others that don't even bat an eye when buying a set they want and it doesn't have long-term repercussions in other areas of their lives. To some, spending $10K feels no different than spending $100. So yeah...my impression is that plenty of the NAGBers don't need to make a profit on chips and that the thrill of the chase or the thrill of getting "dream" chips made is the real motivation and fun.
    • I think too often people project their own struggles, emotions, and greed onto other peoples' actions. It's better to take a step back and get some perspective. These are just chips. They are fun. They don't really matter. You can only use one set at a time anyhow, etc. It's going to be okay. I have participated in other hobbies where it is literally impossible to have everything, so I long ago stopped caring about being a completionist in any way.
  • People that are feeling negative need to change their paradigm. It's not about being an "insider" or an "outsider". I suppose I am an "outsider" as I'm not part of any inner circle. But, you know what? That's on me or you to go engage with people, talk/post, build friendships, bounce ideas around, etc. You can engage with the PCF community as little or as much as you want.
  • I haven't had any bad experiences here or from old ChipTalk days. Life is what you make of it. All the folks I've interacted with here and the few I have gotten to meet in person are all friendly, helpful people.
In regard to a "golden era" of chipping, yes 20 years ago in retrospect was a great time to buy chips that are now unobtanium. That said, I try to always be forward-looking. The quality of options available now crushes anything that was happening 20 years ago. And all the accessories? Affordable tables, custom toppers/felts, dealer buttons, cut cards, etc. It is so much easier to reasonably put together a cool home setup than ever before.

Yes, certain "premium" chips are always going to hit the pocketbook more than we'd like. But, I have also seen casino-used Paulson playable sets go for less than Chinese chips. So, with patience and attentiveness to the forums it is possible to find decent clay chip sets that won't break the bank. If you want something nicer/custom, then get a side hustle and "chip away" at it until you can get something you like more. Everything in due time.

I think there is a wealth of knowledge, creativity, and ingenuity here at PCF. There is much to be picked up by searching and reading through the forums.
Click to expand...

I read every word of this... twice. Well said sir.

extreme517 said:
I'm not part of any inner circle.
Click to expand...

You are in mine!
 

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