Tourney Going from cash game to tournament - chip distribution (1 Viewer)

[Naww_Mann]

I normally host friendly cash games twice a month with $50 buy-in. By the end of the night after (5-6 hours), sometimes we have "big" winners with $50+ profits but most players end up winning or losing just a few dollars at most (and that's still ok too, it's mainly a fun social get-together)

Since my friends are beginners, in our $50 cash games I start off with 16x25c ($4), 26x$1 ($26), and 4x$5 ($20). Lots of chips around the table and we like it like that, they limp and min bet/raise a lot)


But now I want to try hosting a single table 10-player tournament just to mix it up. I plan on using a T100 base, 25K starting stack. I use this little app from the android play store called "Blinds are Up!" to figure out starting stack and chip distribution. Seems to be in line with what people suggest here on the forums?

I get the following with my chips (100, 500, 1000, 5000)

10/4/7/3 (less chips) or 15/5/11/2 (more chips)

I can't seem to get over the fact that the ideal chip distributions use so few chips of each denominations in the starting stack. I guess I'm used to more chips from my cash games.

I can understand why though, can't be having tons of chips to color up later, blinds increasing making the lessor denominations less useful over time, financial limitations of buying chips. I just wonder how my friends will feel about it - we'll see this Friday night I guess.

Does anyone have this feeling as well? Or did you maybe have this feeling when you first started playing tournaments.

I know the starting stack is the same regardless of how many chips you can use but since it's less chips overall (especially 10/4/7/3, it psychology feels like less money)?

What are your thoughts?

Attached some screenshots from the app showing the chip distribution and blind schedule.

 

[Legend5555]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/basic-tournament-set-breakdowns-for-beginners-updated.49446/

 

[tabletalker7]

I get where you are coming from, but having this feeling is proof that you don't fully understand how tournaments work. The constant rising blind structure in tournaments makes it a very different animal when compared to cash games. Try it for a few tournaments and see how it works out.

 

[Mr Winberg]

For cash games, having a ton of chips doesn't have that much overhead. Once in a while an all-in needs to be counted or someone asks for a chip count. In tournaments you need to color off chips (as you stated), players move, and all-ins are counted very frequently. It's more overhead.

In your shoes I'd go with 15/5/11/2 or even 20/6/15/1 just to try the "moar" approach. If it works for you, then great! If not, then adjust next time.

Last week I hosted 18 players T50k with stacks of 20/6/20/5 and I just don't see the issue with lots of chips. But I'm an anomaly, most hosts prefer a more Spartan approach.

 

[Legend5555]

FYI, there is nothing wrong with using a lot of chips. It can just be expensive to get that many depending on what you use. When I only end up running one table with T100 base, I usually do 15/3/8/2. But you'll just find that having more than that just isn't necessary. You want enough that people don't have to make change constantly, and when they do they can easily get it from another player without disrupting the game flow. Time and # of hands dealt is everything in tournaments.

 

[swemon]

Does anyone have this feeling as well?

Always!

I'd definitely recommend the 15/5/11/2 option. We used the above "less" approach once, and I just got the sensation people felt short-stacked most of the time, even though they weren't. And, maybe it prevented them from limping, afraid of a) making change, or b) like they're almost eliminated already. Both those sensations won't have been particularly nice to experience. Next STT I'll run will be inspired by @Mr Winberg's "moar" approach!

 

[buzzmonkey]

My set allows for 10/6/11/2 in a 30 player game, but that also allows for 15/6/11/2 in a 20 or less player game. It's worked out very well for us.

 

[Naww_Mann]

For cash games, having a ton of chips doesn't have that much overhead. Once in a while an all-in needs to be counted or someone asks for a chip count. In tournaments you need to color off chips (as you stated), players move, and all-ins are counted very frequently. It's more overhead.

In your shoes I'd go with 15/5/11/2 or even 20/6/15/1 just to try the "moar" approach. If it works for you, then great! If not, then adjust next time.

Last week I hosted 18 players T50k with stacks of 20/6/20/5 and I just don't see the issue with lots of chips. But I'm an anomaly, most hosts prefer a more Spartan approach.

Thanks for your input, I'll try out the 15/5/11/2 distribution and see how that works.

Do you find players are making change a lot throughout the game?

 

[Naww_Mann]

FYI, there is nothing wrong with using a lot of chips. It can just be expensive to get that many depending on what you use. When I only end up running one table with T100 base, I usually do 15/3/8/2. But you'll just find that having more than that just isn't necessary. You want enough that people don't have to make change constantly, and when they do they can easily get it from another player without disrupting the game flow. Time and # of hands dealt is everything in tournaments.

I'm using pretty basic, cheapo slugged chips, but they work for me for now.

I believe they are like the claysmith gear wheat mould chips, like the mints or dessert heats. They are just relabeled with another name.

I don't mind them, though I do invest a lot of time an effort sanding the sharp edges down.

My have a 500 chip cash set that I've already sanded down and they feel so smooth now.

Just got myself 650 chip set for tournament and already dreading the thought of going through that process again. I wonder if a dremel tool would help...

 

[PARADOX]

10/6/6/3

10/4/7/3

Too many chips is a pain for color up.

Use 25ks for rebuys and color.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Do you find players are making change a lot throughout the game?

With 20/6/20/X, no, not much change making.
With base 25 I use 20/20/5/15 for T20k, not much change making there either. ;-)

Too many chips is a pain for color up

I'm not gonna disagree with you. But when you have as many chips in the stacks as I do, and with 20-ish players, racks are your friend! Not much counting, just shove-em in the tracks and count the barrels. Also, my crew are getting pretty good at selling their lowest denom chips to the chip leader prior to color-up, that helps a lot.

 

[SlowPokeTony]

I have players that will complain the starting stack looks too small (t5 base, 2500 stack 10/10/7/3) and then another day complain there are way too many chips in play when I give them 20/16/10/2. Play with more chips if you like. If it sucks you just adjust next time. Eventually you’ll find a sweet spot for your group. Any time you’re going more than one table you’ll want less physical chips in play though.

 

[Naww_Mann]

I've finally hosted the tournament and wow, now I see the reason for 10/4/7/3 chip distribution, especially if you run more than 1 table.

I used the 15/5/11/2 and by the end of the night everyone had so many chips, mind you I did forget to color up because we were do into our very first home tournament but still.

Just a question to everyone, when coloring up, do you only use the highest chip denomination to make change? For me, that would be T5000.

 

[AnteAndy]

Just a question to everyone, when coloring up, do you only use the highest chip denomination to make change? For me, that would be T5000.

Pretty much for my T100-base set. Also have some T25k chips but haven't put them in play yet. Granted I never through bigger than a 2-table tourney which my set accommodates. Also some extra T1000 to help color up too.

And yeah, I'm in the 10/4/7/3 camp too. Would go 15/7/10/2 unless it was a single table game.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Just a question to everyone, when coloring up, do you only use the highest chip denomination to make change? For me, that would be T5000.

It depends a bit. I usually try to add chips that help the game. For example, if the workhorse for the next couple of levels will be T1000 and you're a little low on them, then color up with T1000. If you're good on T1000 then add T5000 instead, or even T25k if you think you have enough T5k. A good rule is to never introduce chips that will be colored off later. For example, if the tourney is scheduled to and after the T1000 is colored-off, it's a bit of a waste to add more of them.

 

[legonick]

I've been doing T100-base, T20K starting stack, 15xT100, 7xT500, 10xT1K, 1xT5K. Happy with the structure!

However I'm planning to play with some more fun stuff at our next game - pre-buys. So it'll be less chips, but a blue chip worth a rebuy. If you bust before the 2nd break, you can re-buy for T10K with the blue. If not, everyone turns in the blues at the 2nd break for a T10K addon. Should be fun to mix it up, see how it plays differently, if at all.