Double Board PLO8 River - Nut Low with 4 players (1 Viewer)

[MrCatPants]

So was playing a hand last night and not sure I took the right action - curious on others thoughts. Cards are (sort of) irrelevant for this question.

1/1 game. Pot has built to about $100.

I'm in 3rd position out of the four players remaining in the hand.

Player 1 is a pusher, and pretty aggressive on draws but generally gives up pots he won't win on the river.
Player 2 is a strong player but calls rivers a little on the wide side and will often raise with the nuts on one side and at least a chance at the other side to try to scoop the pot. Generally doesn't push with nuts on one side and air on the other.
Player 3 is me, table image is LAG even though I'm playing TAG.
Player 4 is a calling station.

River comes, and I end up with nut low (A 4) but no additional blockers, miss on all my high draws and just a middling two pair and a missed straight. Straights and flushes out there.

Player one leads out to $40 (has about $300 behind)
Player two raises all in to $125.

Pot's at $265, with a $125 bet to me with a player to act behind me and player one yet to respond to the raise. My stack is at about $200. And my spidey sense is telling me I'm decent odds to get quartered here.

Accordingly, what's the move you'd take and why?

 

[APatHand]

I can't see calling off 125 or 200 on the proposition of breaking even or losing money.
Save it for a better spot.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

At $125 to win $500ish (assuming future action), even if you get quartered, a call is a winning play. If you get worse than quartered of course it's not, but I'm calling all day. If you have to put in the last $75 oh well. At worst you're losing a small amount.

 

[DrStrange]

Snap fold. If Hero has the nut low on both boards, then snap call.

Let's see what could go right. Everyone calls, so four way action. The pot is divided into four equal parts, hero gets his money back. On a lucky day, Hero's two pair wins another quarter. (by the way, it matters which two pair it is - top two pair is much more valuable than a garbage two pair.)

What could go wrong? A player could fold leaving Hero losing money on his 25% of the pot. Hero could get quartered. Or worse, both could happen.

In general, calling the last bet, the big bet without more than a nut low is a mistake. Rarely wins money but can easily lose money. Hero should be aiming to be that guy who is getting half or more of the pot while the rest squabble over Hero's crumbs.

It is hard to fold the nuts though -=- DrStrange

 

[Rhodeman77]

Most people don’t lead/raise with just a bare nut low because of the very real possibility of being quartered. So it is more likely the bet and raise are strong high hands with a decent low.

I lean towards a call vs folding and am never raising. If A2 was the nut low I’d be more worried about getting 1/4. If you think everyone is sticky and the remaining players are likely to call as well then there is very little chance you lose money in this hand. You want to keep player 4 in the pot along with the player 1.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

Snap fold. If Hero has the nut low on both boards, then snap call.

Let's see what could go right. Everyone calls, so four way action. The pot is divided into four equal parts, hero gets his money back. On a lucky day, Hero's two pair wins another quarter. (by the way, it matters which two pair it is - top two pair is much more valuable than a garbage two pair.)

What could go wrong? A player could fold leaving Hero losing money on his 25% of the pot. Hero could get quartered. Or worse, both could happen.

In general, calling the last bet, the big bet without more than a nut low is a mistake. Rarely wins money but can easily lose money. Hero should be aiming to be that guy who is getting half or more of the pot while the rest squabble over Hero's crumbs.

It is hard to fold the nuts though -=- DrStrange

I'm assuming he is playing double board PLO8 with one winner for the high and one for the low. If I'm mistaken, then disregard my previous comment lol

 

[Moxie Mike]

There's a lot of missing information here. The runout on both boards and corresponding action would be helpful to know. Even the fact that it's a double-board hand is more or less irrelevant since we don't know if a low is possible on both boards, if either board is paired, if a flush is possible on both boards and what their suits are... about all we know is that at least one board contains a 2 and a 3 and another low card that's not a 5.

I think your 2-pair for high is never good here.

I'll try to answer from context and experience.

Player 1 in this hand probably has the straight or a marginal flush with a medium strength low hand. A $40 bet into a $100 pot feels like a blocker bet, where he hopes to get to showdown reasonably cheaply. Player 1 doesn't hold the nuts for hi or lo here. I imagine he called the raise from P2 if it folded around to him and mucked if you or player 4 called (or raised).

Player 2's shove strongly suggests he has the nuts one way or the other. Maybe both.

So you're facing a bet and a raise... calling $125 puts $390 in the pot. Assuming not another dollar goes into this pot, you're risking $125 to win $195 max. And if you get quartered you're getting back ~$97.

So given the action and the fact that your hi hand has little showdown value I think you have to fold.

 

[v1pe]

I agree with Dr Strange, depends on if you hold the nut low on both boards. Generally I'm not taking and aggressive action with a bare nut low. I'm more apt to call with A4 than A2 (more likely multiple hands contain A2 than A4).

Side note, why in the world would you play PLO8 with a double board?!

I can only imagine how long it takes to calculate the pot when there are multiple tied low hands. You could potentially have what...a 6-8 way tie?

 

[trever]

If you call and the original bettor calls and you get quartered, you lose $6 by calling. If the original bettor folds and you get quartered, you lose $27.

If you scoop the low, you win $113 in a three way pot, and $70 heads up.

There are other scenarios like the original bettor shoving, or getting 1/6ed which are both pretty awful for you.

No shame in folding this, but I think that you can find a call here. Would love to know the board's and action on prior streets though.

 

[MrCatPants]

To clarify, double board, but it's best high on either board versus best low on either board. So A4 was the nut low across both boards.

And not my game. and softest game I've ever played in by far....never had a losing session there.

And as I mentioned in above post there were multiple straight and flush possibilities. Both flushes would have come on the river. Neither board paired.

 

[MrCatPants]

So I ended up flatting. Player 4 calls as well. Player 1 calls. Players 1 3 (me) and 4 all with nut low and only player 1 with a decent high (q high flush). Player 2 has nut flush.


So player 2 wins half.
The rest of us get sixthed.

Sounds pretty split on if I should have gotten away from it?

 

[v1pe]

To clarify, double board, but it's best high on either board versus best low on either board. So A4 was the nut low across both boards.

And not my game. and softest game I've ever played in by far....never had a losing session there.

And as I mentioned in above post there were multiple straight and flush possibilities. Both flushes would have come on the river. Neither board paired.

Yuck! I know... Not your game... But I really dislike that way of playing double board. Feels very bingo to me. Fine if you want to play bingo I guess. Also very confusing for new players vs just playing a single board split pot as usual.

Sounds like a good game though

 

[Moxie Mike]

Interesting. If P1 had shoved instead of calling, he could have gotten 4/6ths of the side pot.

I don't like the call... but you'll learn from this. Interesting hand. Thanks for sharing

 

[MrCatPants]

Yuck! I know... Not your game... But I really dislike that way of playing double board. Feels very bingo to me. Fine if you want to play bingo I guess. Also very confusing for new players vs just playing a single board split pot as usual.

Sounds like a good game though

Yeah. If you just sit and bleed them when you flop strongly it's like printing cash.