Do home games usually take a commission? (2 Viewers)

[TofuNinja]

Quick general question about home games:

In your experience, do home games typically take a commission (rake or per-hand fee), or are most run commission-free?

I recently went to a home game and was told they take a commission. So I’m curious what’s most common and what people consider “normal.”

 

[TheOffalo]

It depends. Some people call all games not at casinos "home games" while others distinguish between "home games" and "private games". I'd say most home games, the ones that are just friends gathering and playing poker, maybe friends of friends, etc., are not raked. Maybe the host asks (or "asks") people to chip in for food and drink, maybe folks round down their winnings and toss the host the change, etc.

If a game is private, and the players main priority is not playing poker with friends and hanging out, but to make money, and the people don't know each other, games are trying to recruit new players, etc. then I might expect a rake in that environment.

 

[GamingWithChips]

Similar thread on this earlier.

I'm going to quote someone else and speak for all and say "Home games do not have a rake. If there is a rake (or commission as you say) it is not a home game, it is a card room/casino or an underground/illegal function".

 

[LotsOfChips]

Taking any money from players that doesn't get returned as prizes (aka rake) is the line that in most jurisdictions defines the difference between legal and illegal gambling.

The vast majority of hosts here don't take rake, and some members here would refuse to play in a home game where rake is taken, preferring instead to play in a casino.

There are some members who don't mind paying a rake in a home private game, depending on what amenities are provided by the host (dedicated professional dealers, drinks, food, security, credit, etc.)

Note that when rake is taken, money comes out of play, so after a certain point, the house stands to make much more from the game than any player might expect to.

 

[springbox]

'Home Game' is kind of a vague term that can refer to a private game among friends and acquaintances not hosted for profit, or to a private game of (most often) strangers of dubious legality at someone's residence, operated for profit. I don't think the latter is uncommon, especially in big cities with no nearby legal card rooms, but on this forum you're going to find people who like hosting and do it for their enjoyment/their community.

Asking for people to chip in $5 or whatever for snacks and refreshments is generally not considered a rake/playing fee. I imagine most hosts, like myself, are spending more on hosting than they're getting back from player contributions.

 

[LotsOfChips]

If a game is private, and the players main priority is not playing poker with friends and hanging out, but to make money, and the people don't know each other, games are trying to recruit new players, etc. then I might expect a rake in that environment.

I think that the question of motivation to make money isn't necessarily based on the player, but the host.

I always am motivated to win (and consequently make money) at any poker game that I enter, including at social/recreational home games.

When the host is trying to make money from the game (including trying to recoup the cost of equipment like tables, chips, etc.) by charging players to play (rake/time charge, etc.), then that isn't a "home game" IMO, but is a (frequently illegal) underground/private game.

I agree with @springbox , collecting money (not from the pot) for shared food costs isn't rake, it's a shared food cost.

 

[joeyshin]

dude.. there are too many games in this area that take no-rake. I would never play in a game that raked.

 

[springbox]

I think that the question of motivation to make money isn't necessarily based on the player, but the host.

I always am motivated to win (and consequently make money) at any poker game that I enter, including at social/recreational home games.

When the host is trying to make money from the game (including trying to recoup the cost of equipment like tables, chips, etc.) by charging players to play (rake/time charge, etc.), then that isn't a "home game" IMO, but is a (frequently illegal) underground/private game.

Agreed. Typically a home game among friends will have a more relaxed/social and less cut-throat attitude than a game among strangers, but the dividing line is whether or not the host is trying to make money on the event not how the players feel about the game. Things just typically line up this way because people who host for social reasons aren't looking to rake their friends, and people inviting strangers into their place aren't looking to give charity to random poker players.

 

[Tonystark137]

dude.. there are too many games in this area that take no-rake. I would never play in a game that raked.

^

 

[TofuNinja]

Thanks everyone for the comments. really appreciate the perspectives.

To add a bit more context: this was a game hosted by someone I know, but we’re not particularly close. I went in expecting a fairly friendly, casual environment, but it turned out I didn’t know about 90% of the people there.

The host had his wife dealing, and each time someone won a hand, she would ask for a “tip.” It wasn’t framed as a formal rake, but there was definitely an expectation, and I felt some peer pressure to tip.

I’m not quite sure how to define it—tip vs commission—but in practice it felt like a commission tied to winning hands.

Curious how others here would view this. Is this considered normal for home games, or is it something you’d want clearly disclosed upfront?

 

[Tonystark137]

Thanks everyone for the comments. really appreciate the perspectives.

To add a bit more context: this was a game hosted by someone I know, but we’re not particularly close. I went in expecting a fairly friendly, casual environment, but it turned out I didn’t know about 90% of the people there.

The host had his wife dealing, and each time someone won a hand, she would ask for a “tip.” It wasn’t framed as a formal rake, but there was definitely an expectation, and I felt some peer pressure to tip.

I’m not quite sure how to define it—tip vs commission—but in practice it felt like a commission tied to winning hands.

Curious how others here would view this. Is this considered normal for home games, or is it something you’d want clearly disclosed upfront?

I think I know the game/location lol

 

[GamingWithChips]

The host had his wife dealing, and each time someone won a hand, she would ask for a “tip.” It wasn’t framed as a formal rake, but there was definitely an expectation, and I felt some peer pressure to tip.

Curious how others here would view this. Is this considered normal for home games, or is it something you’d want clearly disclosed upfront?

I love that, I wonder why they felt the need to not disclose upfront and also blur the lines as much as possible and make it weird and uncomfortable for everyone??

Anyway, this sounds like one of the many reasons there's a distinction between home games and otherwise. I think home games should always be simple, straightforward and fun. For my friends, we would play outdoor activities or UNO for a few hours at a time, we were all having fun. Why would one want to collect money in a situation where all of your friends or friends of friends are having a good time, just because it's poker?

 

[springbox]

Thanks everyone for the comments. really appreciate the perspectives.

To add a bit more context: this was a game hosted by someone I know, but we’re not particularly close. I went in expecting a fairly friendly, casual environment, but it turned out I didn’t know about 90% of the people there.

The host had his wife dealing, and each time someone won a hand, she would ask for a “tip.” It wasn’t framed as a formal rake, but there was definitely an expectation, and I felt some peer pressure to tip.

I’m not quite sure how to define it—tip vs commission—but in practice it felt like a commission tied to winning hands.

Curious how others here would view this. Is this considered normal for home games, or is it something you’d want clearly disclosed upfront?

If I attended a game with a dedicated dealer, I would expect that either the host is paying them, or the host should communicate to players before attending that they are expected to tip the dealer. This is effectively a rake though, since the 'tips' are going to the house. It seems like they're trying to make it seem like it isn't. Not a fan, personally.

 

[LotsOfChips]

A dedicated dealer can add a lot to a home game, especially if the players aren't very adept at shuffling and/or dealing.

Tips aren't typically considered a rake (although they do take a lot of money off the table). At a casino, tips are pretty much expected. Lot's of times a professional dedicated dealer is paid exclusively by tips, especially at home games. Even at casinos, their base wage is pretty small, and they rely on tips to earn a living wage. But when a dealer asks for/demands a tip after a hand, that is pretty off-putting.

IMO, tips to dealers depend a lot on the size of a pot. Having to shell out $1 on a <$5 win is way out of line, especially in what is supposed to be a friendly game. If you win a $50 pot, then sure, a couple of bucks to the dealer is fine. Giving away 10% or more from every hand will strip all the money off the table in pretty short order.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Just curious what others think about this idea - would it be inappropriate to tip the home game dealer a set amount (say $5-10 for a low stakes game) at the start of the game, rather than whenever you win a hand?

 

[Tonystark137]

Just curious what others think about this idea - would it be inappropriate to tip the `

Presuming a dedicated dealer at home game. Like you said, I think it needs to be disclosed ahead of time and expectation needs to be set.

Presuming it is a 1-1 or 1-2 game , $1 a hand is a bit of money coming off the table an hour. I don't disagree in principle, as a player I probably wouldn't play in the game / change my strategy when playing in said game.

If someone offered to play and deal at a game, I probably throw them $20 for the night (stake dependent)

 

[bubz_davis]

I couldnt imagine charging my friends or their friends commission or rake to come to my game. Some weeks I find it hard enough to fill a table. If we all agreed to chip in for a dealer every once in a while for a bigger game I could see that but yeah, I love the game too much and want people to have the best time they can.

 

[springbox]

Just curious what others think about this idea - would it be inappropriate to tip the home game dealer a set amount (say $5-10) at the start of the game, rather than whenever you win a hand?

Not inappropriate at all imo, but I can't imagine a dedicated dealer wanting to deal a whole session where they only expect to get $5~$10 per player unless it's a friend/someone related to the game (hell, I deal all the hands at games I host and no one's tipping me...)

I assume most who do it as a gig expect to receive $40/h or more and that's just not worth it for buy-ins below a few hundred bucks at least. It's also pretty location dependent, card rooms here are not allowed to pay dealers as it's a 'social game' so the expectation for players is to be more generous with their tips. As there's no house rake, it's a pretty player friendly trade-off.

 

[LotsOfChips]

I can't imagine a dedicated dealer wanting to deal a whole session where they only expect to get $5~$10 per player

Yeah, for the amount I mentioned I was thinking of a low stakes home game (0.25/0.50) with buy ins of around $50-100, and a table of 6-8 players for around 4-5 hours. AT $10/player, that's $60-80 or around $15-20/hour. Not what a professional would want, but for the host's wife, probably better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Obviously a higher stakes game (1/2, 1/3) might warrant a higher front loaded tip, but any more than $20 per player for a short session seems a lot to me (but hey, I'm a cheap bastard)

One thing that would prevent me from tipping at all is if the dealer was also playing. No way I'm throwing money toward a dealer who I'm playing against.

 

[bakjak]

Played a game where a small value, like .25-.50, from the pot went to the house. Instead of keeping it for themselves, it became a prize for anyone that gets quads or a royal flush. Ultimately, this game was more for fun vibes than anything else. If no one gets the aforementioned hands that night, the prize continues to grow for next game.

 

[joeyshin]

Played a game where a small value, like .25-.50, from the pot went to the house. Instead of keeping it for themselves, it became a prize for anyone that gets quads or a royal flush. Ultimately, this game was more for fun vibes than anything else. If no one gets the aforementioned hands that night, the prize continues to grow for next game.

You mean a High Hand Jackpot??

 

[GamingWithChips]

You mean a High Hand Jackpot??

Ya, should be a bad beat jackpot. Shouldn't be rewarding card luck lol

 

[DrStrange]

I don't mind paying a door charge to pay for food and drinks. I don't mind taking a collection to order delivery food. If the host doesn't ask for it, I try to pay for it anyway. Food and drink for a table of poker players is Ouchy expensive.

Tossing in for a prop bet is fine. 10bb each goes to the highest hand of the night. 2bb goes to every player who wins with 7-2 each time they win. Raking the game to pay for an accumulating jackpot may become dodgy if the money taken doesn't all go back out to the players.

I don't want to play in a for profit underground game. There are plenty of games without such fees. Paying for my share of consumables is fine. Paying for the hosts lifestyle isn't OK. -=- DrStrange

 

[LotsOfChips]

If no one gets the aforementioned hands that night, the prize continues to grow for next game.

I don't mind paying into a home game high hand fund, but IMO it should go to the highest hand of the night, rather than having it carry over if a threshold isn't met. Maybe fine in a casino (debatable), but it would irk me if the high hand that I contributed to for several weeks got awarded the one game that I didn't attend because of illness or other commitments.

 

[Jimulacrum]

A true home game in the sense I understand it does not take a rake, or at most takes a minimal rake that stops when the night's expenses are paid up (and even this is uncommon). It's basically a party hosted at someone's house, typically among friends, where poker is the main activity.

Many games are hosted in a home but are more of a small-scale commercial venture that is not limited to friends and takes in revenue from poker like a casino. I have heard these called "underground games" or "house games." Whatever name you use, it's clear there's a meaningful distinction to make, both in the fact that money is getting siphoned out of the game and that the player pool is probably not carefully curated like it is for a home game among friends. All the risk and expense of a casino game without the reward of casino amenities and security.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Quick general question about home games:

In your experience, do home games typically take a commission (rake or per-hand fee), or are most run commission-free?

I recently went to a home game and was told they take a commission. So I’m curious what’s most common and what people consider “normal.”

Some do where I live, but I avoid those games. It looks like you live in VA, as do I. VA has weird ass laws. Pretty much every home game can be considered illegal gambling in VA. Nobody usually cares about the rake until the wrong person gets pissed off. Thus, I don't take a rake or commission and I avoid games that do.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I view a poker game as a bunch of friends getting together. Would you charge your friends popping over for a 4th of July cookout?

Hosting is expensive. I may put out a donations jar, but I'm never getting close to a profit. There are nights where the cost of food would require Mrs Zombie and I to finish 1st and 2nd to break even, and that's before incidentals like toilet paper, trash bags, and disposable plates/forks/knives.

Now if the game is no longer "friendly", I still want something (security, drinks, food, dealers, etc) if there is a rake.

Just curious what others think about this idea - would it be inappropriate to tip the home game dealer a set amount (say $5-10 for a low stakes game) at the start of the game, rather than whenever you win a hand?

I would prefer this over a mandatory (or expected) tip. I grew up close to the poverty line. Even though I've broken out of the cycle, I still have the "depression-era" mindset. Waste not, want not. Nearly 60 years later, I don't think that will ever change, and by default I will under-tip dealers unless I pull a big pot. Charge me up front and I won't think about it again.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Similar thread on this earlier.

I'm going to quote someone else and speak for all and say "Home games do not have a rake. If there is a rake (or commission as you say) it is not a home game, it is a card room/casino or an underground/illegal function".

 

[acezag]

Setting aside rake, being invited to a "friendly" home game, and discovering after the fact they have a spouse demanding your cash, is some shady WT nonsense.

 

[valleychips]

Yeah, for the amount I mentioned I was thinking of a low stakes home game (0.25/0.50) with buy ins of around $50-100, and a table of 6-8 players for around 4-5 hours. AT $10/player, that's $60-80 or around $15-20/hour. Not what a professional would want, but for the host's wife, probably better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Obviously a higher stakes game (1/2, 1/3) might warrant a higher front loaded tip, but any more than $20 per player for a short session seems a lot to me (but hey, I'm a cheap bastard)

One thing that would prevent me from tipping at all is if the dealer was also playing. No way I'm throwing money toward a dealer who I'm playing against.

My 2 cents:

Tips should be kept separate from the player's stack and not used in game. To your point, you don't want to your opponent to use your generosity against you. If said dealer busts out and wants to rebuy with the tips, that's fine.

I do think dealers who handle the whole night should be tipped through. That gig requires a lot of work and mental bandwidth that they cannot put into the game for themselves. If people are sharing the gig or handing off, then no tip is fine.

My POV is that a dedicated dealer makes the game so much smoother and faster and we see so many more hands (especially if they handle all shuffles) that it's worth some money coming off the table. Our benefit is greater than the cost. We no longer have player-dealers though. Dedicated dealer-only types who expect tips (as they should), and I encourage all guests to tip. Everyone seems cool with it. YMMV