Deep stack tournament sets (2 Viewers)

[cabmitlomac]

Im still trying to decide what chips to get but i still havent figured out what denom and amount to buy if im wanting to run a 16-18 player deep stack tournament. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JustinInMN]

When I think of deep stacks, I think of starting with 200-300 x the BB on the first level. Now to figure out your first level, you should decide what your "base chip" should be for the tournament. Tournaments are generally run using whole numbers so possible candidates for a base chip would be T1, T5, T25, T100, or T500.

T1: Not very common in mainstream, but can be used in home games, often because the host has a pre-denominated set that starts on 1.
T5: This was common in online games and can surely transition to live play
T25: This was the common base for the World Series of Poker main event (until sometime during the 2010s) when the starting stacks were T10,000 in chips and blinds starting at 25-50 (note that is 200 * BB in the first level) Most casinos emulated this for their own tournaments of all buy ins.
T100: This is now the common base for the World Series of Poker main event, blinds are starting at 100-100 with a starting stack of T30,000
T500: This is my personal favorite base for home games now. I like it because the next chip up from this is the T1000, so I don't put a ton of T500 in play which makes the first color up (the one involving the most players) easy.

The next chips up from these are typically the T1000, T5000, T25000, T100000, and possibly T500000 however they would be functionally the same as the T1, T5, T25, T100, and T500 as "base chips" so they don't merit much consideration.

So what you do is decide on your base chip, and include that plus the next 4 (5 at the most) denominations.

Then you design your starting stacks, multiply your starting stack by the number of players you expect, and add larger chips on to account for color ups and re-entries.

Possible 200BB starting stacks for each base chip

Base	First blind level (1 chip-2 chip)	Denominations	Example Starting Stack Quantities
T1	1-2	T1/5/25/100	15/17/8/1 or 10/12/5/2 (total T400)
T5	5-10	T5/25/100/500	15/17/5/2 or 10/10/7/2 (total T2000)
T25	25-50	T25/100/500/1000	12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7 (total T10000)
T100	100-200	T100/500/1000/5000	15/5/12/5 or 10/6/7/6 (total T40000)
T500	500-1000	T500/1000/5000/25000	6/12/12/1 or 4/8/8/2 (total T100000)

Decide which of those look "good" to you and go from there.

So for example, say you pick T25. You know your starting stacks need to be at least 8/8/4/7 * 18 players means you need 144/144/72/126 of T25/100/500/1000 in starting stack chips, plus it's a good idea to add enough rebuy chips for at least one per player plus color ups, so call that another 40. Round your quantities up to the nearest 20 and you get a buy of 160/160/80/140/40 or 580 chips. If the purchase requirement is in multiples of 25 then the buy would be 150/150/75/150/50 for 575 chips. You of course can tweak these to whatever figures fill out your case or what have you.

If you prefer putting more chips in the starting stack to reduce changemaking, you can copy the process above using the 12/12/5/6 format.
You would need 216/216/108/112 for your starting stacks. Then still add 40-50 more T5000s for re-entries and color ups. That would give you a buy of 220/220/120/120/60 for 740 chips, or if buying in quantities of 25 225/225/125/125/50 for 750 chips.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gunnar]

Deep stack tournament also needs structures to match. If having 10 minute levels and big jumps then it is not a deep stack tournament.

I like to go 300BB if the first level is 100/200 and next level 200/400

 

[BGinGA]

When I think of deep stacks, I think of starting with 200-300 x the BB on the first level. Now to figure out your first level, you should decide what your "base chip" should be for the tournament. Tournaments are generally run using whole numbers so possible candidates for a base chip would be T1, T5, T25, T100, or T500.

T1: Not very common in mainstream, but can be used in home games, often because the host has a pre-denominated set that starts on 1.
T5: This was common in online games and can surely transition to live play
T25: This was the common base for the World Series of Poker main event (until sometime during the 2010s) when the starting stacks were T10,000 in chips and blinds starting at 25-50 (note that is 200 * BB in the first level) Most casinos emulated this for their own tournaments of all buy ins.
T100: This is now the common base for the World Series of Poker main event, blinds are starting at 100-100 with a starting stack of T30,000
T500: This is my personal favorite base for home games now. I like it because the next chip up from this is the T1000, so I don't put a ton of T500 in play which makes the first color up (the one involving the most players) easy.

The next chips up from these are typically the T1000, T5000, T25000, T100000, and possibly T500000 however they would be functionally the same as the T1, T5, T25, T100, and T500 as "base chips" so they don't merit much consideration.

So what you do is decide on your base chip, and include that plus the next 4 (5 at the most) denominations.

Then you design your starting stacks, multiply your starting stack by the number of players you expect, and add larger chips on to account for color ups and re-entries.

Possible 200BB starting stacks for each base chip

Base	First blind level (1 chip-2 chip)	Denominations	Example Starting Stack Quantities
T1	1-2	T1/5/25/100	15/17/8/1 or 10/12/5/2 (total T400)
T5	5-10	T5/25/100/500	15/17/5/2 or 10/10/7/2 (total T2000)
T25	25-50	T25/100/500/1000	12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7 (total T10000)
T100	100-200	T100/500/1000/5000	15/5/12/5 or 10/6/7/6 (total T40000)
T500	500-1000	T500/1000/5000/25000	6/12/12/1 or 4/8/8/2 (total T100000)

Decide which of those look "good" to you and go from there.

So for example, say you pick T25. You know your starting stacks need to be at least 8/8/4/7 * 18 players means you need 144/144/72/126 of T25/100/500/1000 in starting stack chips, plus it's a good idea to add enough rebuy chips for at least one per player plus color ups, so call that another 40. Round your quantities up to the nearest 20 and you get a buy of 160/160/80/140/40 or 580 chips. If the purchase requirement is in multiples of 25 then the buy would be 150/150/75/150/50 for 575 chips. You of course can tweak these to whatever figures fill out your case or what have you.

If you prefer putting more chips in the starting stack to reduce changemaking, you can copy the process above using the 12/12/5/6 format.
You would need 216/216/108/112 for your starting stacks. Then still add 40-50 more T5000s for re-entries and color ups. That would give you a buy of 220/220/120/120/60 for 740 chips, or if buying in quantities of 25 225/225/125/125/50 for 750 chips.

Hope this helps.

Excellent write-up.

Just wanted to add another base-chip option for tournaments, which is the T.25-base set.

It allows for actual cash-value stacks in a tournament format, meaning that cash game sets can be used without security concerns.

A T.25-base event starting with .25/.50 blinds and $100 stack buy-ins (200bb) would also be considered a deep-stack event, while a $50 stack buy-in (100bb) would be more typical of a standard home game tournament.

For smaller cash-value tournament buy-in amounts, you can also use a 5c-base set -- with 5c/10c opening blinds, a $20 stack buy-in puts 200bb in play for a deep-stack tournament experience.

 

[JustinInMN]

Just wanted to add another base-chip option for tournaments, which is the T.25-base set.

It allows for actual cash-value stacks in a tournament format, meaning that cash game sets can be used without security concerns.

A T.25-base event starting with .25/.50 blinds and $100 stack buy-ins (200bb) would also be considered a deep-stack event, while a $50 stack buy-in (100bb) would be more typical of a standard home game tournament.

Thanks, I did exclude that because I do believe tournaments should be whole numbers. However if there is an exception that's valuable this is it. It is fundamentally different than T25 because the "natural chip progression" (0.25/1/5/25/100) does not have any 2x jumps unlike T25 and as you say, it does have the advantages at least at the start of using betting figures familiar to cash game players.

 

[cabmitlomac]

Thanks guys! Ill be referencing this when i go to buy my chips

 

[maloviz]

Base	First blind level (1 chip-2 chip)	Denominations	Example Starting Stack Quantities
T1	1-2	T1/5/25/100	15/17/8/1 or 10/12/5/2 (total T400)
T5	5-10	T5/25/100/500	15/17/5/2 or 10/10/7/2 (total T2000)
T25	25-50	T25/100/500/1000	12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7 (total T10000)
T100	100-200	T100/500/1000/5000	15/5/12/5 or 10/6/7/6 (total T40000)
T500	500-1000	T500/1000/5000/25000	6/12/12/1 or 4/8/8/2 (total T100000)

I think you made some mistakes in the "Example Starting Stack Quantities". Specifically in the T1 row (The second example) and both examples in the T100 row.

Here is the table after I attempted to fix those examples:

Base	First blind level (1 chip-2 chip)	Denominations	Example Starting Stack Quantities
T1	1-2	T1/5/25/100	15/17/8/1 or 10/13/5/2 (total T400)
T5	5-10	T5/25/100/500	15/17/5/2 or 10/10/7/2 (total T2000)
T25	25-50	T25/100/500/1000	12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7 (total T10000)
T100	100-200	T100/500/1000/5000	15/5/11/5 or 10/6/6/6 (total T40000)
T500	500-1000	T500/1000/5000/25000	6/12/12/1 or 4/8/8/2 (total T100000)

 

[maxim_666666]

From the point of view of mathematics and common sense, there is no difference between T1 and T100... Only in the number of zeros. I've played tournaments many times with these 1-5-25 sets...And the structure is quite flexible. The only problem is the security of the chips, which will also be used in money games.

 

[maloviz]

From the point of view of mathematics and common sense, there is no difference between T1 and T100... Only in the number of zeros. I've played tournaments many times with these 1-5-25 sets...And the structure is quite flexible. The only problem is the security of the chips, which will also be used in money games.

There is the difference of there being no T1000/T5000 equivalent in a traditional T1 set. Instead there is just T25 which is kind of a middle ground equivalent for the 2.

 

[BillyPaul]

Did not read all above, probably lots of great advice I am sure. I would only say this... Your first consideration is,
1. How much time/hours do you have to run the tournament? hours/ a day/ a weekend?
2. Your starting stack... 5,000 / 10,000 / 50,000 / 100,000? Cash buy-ins can be anything you want in all cases.
and 3. (at this stage) if you are considering re-buys, add-ons etc. (again time allocated)
4. Consider your structure next. You can make any tournament last as long as you need if your structure is balanced.
Good luck. You will get lots of constructive info here.