Dealing @ Home Game Questions (1 Viewer)

[nbrun]

Hey Guys,

Have a successful home league currently going and we are on Game 5 / 10 of our 10-game season. Everything is going great and it wouldn't be going as smooth if it wasn't for PCF, so thank you!

Bit of a dilemma and question and hoping to get your experienced input.

I have been dealing about 90% of the 4 games we have played. I am by far the most experienced in shuffling, dealing and running the game. But my issue is: I find at the end of the game (approx 4-5 hours) i haven't done much socializing. I've basically been watching people place bets, pushing pots and calling the action the entire night. I created this league for the camaraderie poker brings and the good times and laughs. I don't find im getting much out of the night. I should mention though, that everybody does say what a great game it was, runs smooth and some of the best poker they play. I'm hoping to find an alternative.

I do want to uphold some level of professionalism and at least some level of game security (if u want to call it that). Most guys cant do a standard casino shuffle (3 riffles/box/riffle/cut) and usually overhand shuffle. Everyone sees the cards, theyre not shuffled properly, they take a while and there are mistakes here and there. I've some guys what they think if I brought in a shuffling rule (ie. no overhand) and the responses were more or less "You are overthinking it"....

We have tried the 2-deck system so cards are always ready, it worked out okay, but I did observe the shuffling/dealing issues.

What is my best option here. What are some rules/strategies you guys implement at your home games with turn-dealing and shuffling?

Cheers guys

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

If you have the coin for a Shuffletech that might help with your shuffling concerns. I end up being the designated dealer which is the easiest but you could always take turns each night depending on seating position ie the player in the middle of the table.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Bring in a professional dealer and have them pay the hourly rate.

Unless your players are physically incapable, I’d say it sounds like they are lazy/just don’t care to change or help.

I was nervous before my first meetup, wanted to be a good guest. Had no idea what to expect as I never got to play. I looked up on this forum the proper way to shuffle. Saw the preferred method with riffles and such. Grabbed a deck, practiced, thought oh yeah I’ll be perfectly fine.

Took 5 minutes.

 

[Trihonda]

Two decks. Shuffle behind. And I just played a tourney with a few dudes that continually flashed cards while dealing and shuffling, etc. if during the deal, make a point to insist folks call that out.

”I’m sorry, I just saw the 10 of clubs that you dealt to Josh. I dont want an unfair advantage, so we need to consider that an exposed card, make that the burn card, and replace Josh’s card at the end of the deal”.

let folks know that if cards get flashed, it creates unfair advantages, and with money on the line, you want everyone to feel comfortable that the game is fair.

Might be some grumbling, but once you start to enforce the rules and explain why they’re important, some folks will try to be more careful, hopefully…

 

[nbrun]

Two decks. Shuffle behind. And I just played a tourney with a few dudes that continually flashed cards while dealing and shuffling, etc. if during the deal, make a point to insist folks call that out.

”I’m sorry, I just saw the 10 of clubs that you dealt to Josh. I dont want an unfair advantage, so we need to consider that an exposed card, make that the burn card, and replace Josh’s card at the end of the deal”.

let folks know that if cards get flashed, it creates unfair advantages, and with money on the line, you want everyone to feel comfortable that the game is fair.

Might be some grumbling, but once you start to enforce the rules and explain why they’re important, some folks will try to be more careful, hopefully…

Yeah this may be a good alternative method.

Maybe when people get called out a few times and dread having the deck circle around to them, they will take 5 minutes to learn how to shuffle from a simple youtube video..

 

[200 Motels]

Most guys cant do a standard casino shuffle (3 riffles/box/riffle/cut) and usually overhand shuffle. Everyone sees the cards, theyre not shuffled properly, they take a while and there are mistakes here and there. I've some guys what they think if I brought in a shuffling rule (ie. no overhand) and the responses were more or less "You are overthinking it"....

I think self dealt is fine. I find that it's part of the give and take with a non-casino tourney. A 'proper shuffle' isn't going to matter in the grand scheme of things. If everyone else doesn't mind self dealt, it's the way to go. Deal the final table and you get a nice balance.

Are you the only one dealing? How many table are running? Do they have dealers? Are you playing?

 

[nbrun]

I think self dealt is fine. I find that it's part of the give and take with a non-casino tourney. A 'proper shuffle' isn't going to matter in the grand scheme of things. If everyone else doesn't mind self dealt, it's the way to go. Deal the final table and you get a nice balance.

Are you the only one dealing? How many table are running? Do they have dealers? Are you playing?

Yeah i would agree. I think if most the players dont recognize/care about the shuffling the way I do.

Currently, one table and I am dealing/playing in the middle seat.

 

[200 Motels]

I'd propose taking a vacation from dealing and go self dealt and possibly with two decks, if the concept isn't overly confusing for others. I've had games where the concept of two decks broke people's brains. I find that some people take pride in their ability to be confused by simple things.

Quick side story: Bar game near my place, everyone knows each other for the most part. The playing surface was often two tables pushed together or if we were lucky, we got the long bar table. Dealing cards on it was like curling. During one game bring a roll out neoprene table topper. We use it at the table I'm at. Everyone enjoys it. I eventually get knocked out. Table breaks. I offer it to another table. Two players say "naa, we don't need that. - yea, we like the table nice n slippy".

I shake my head internally, and offer to leave the topper with the guy running the tourney. They use it next week, and the week after. Then there's 2 or 3 of them being used at that game. Then every bar game is using them.

Just another part of the give and the take with home games.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

Yeah i would agree. I think if most the players dont recognize/care about the shuffling the way I do.

Currently, one table and I am dealing/playing in the middle seat.

Find one other player (there has to be at least one) to seat across from you and alternate dealing. Let the best of the others that can shuffle, shuffle to give you guys a small break.

 

[opengun]

We use two decks, shuffle behind. "Cut, Pass, Shuffle".

 

[ekricket]

that out.

”I’m sorry, I just saw the 10 of clubs that you dealt to Josh. I dont want an unfair advantage, so we need to consider that an exposed card, make that the burn card, and replace Josh’s card at the end of the deal”.

No. Please don’t be this guy, that watches every shuffle like a hawk and lives to catch sight of a card and announce it. We Used to play with a guy that I swear the only reason he came was to watch and see if he could spot cards that were being dealt. He never knew what he had or who the action was on, but by god if he saw a random 2c while being dealt you would know about it.

If all you have to occupy your time at the table is to watch the deal just to see if you can spot cards the your probably not the first person in the invite list. Your probably on the “last chance to get a game going” list

 

[4SUMERZ]

We all self deal, and we all seem to be distracted by stories (tall tales) etc when someone is dealing. No one seems to be looking for cards they can see when someone else is dealing. We all deal, cut the cards on top of the cut card, and deal...simple..no issues..
The only thing that bothers me is when players don't want to leave their hole cards on the table when they are playing a hand...or not paying attention when it's their turn to bet. How hard would it be to peek at the hole cards, and still leave them on the table?
It's been mentioned numerous times, but they become senile and keep doing it.

 

[Trihonda]

No. Please don’t be this guy, that watches every shuffle like a hawk and lives to catch sight of a card and announce it. We Used to play with a guy that I swear the only reason he came was to watch and see if he could spot cards that were being dealt. He never knew what he had or who the action was on, but by god if he saw a random 2c while being dealt you would know about it.

If all you have to occupy your time at the table is to watch the deal just to see if you can spot cards the your probably not the first person in the invite list. Your probably on the “last chance to get a game going” list

Really? Nobody is advocating the kinda doucheknucklery you’re talking about. If there’s a guy who’s blatantly flashing cards, and people see it, it needs to be called out WHEN it happens.

 

[JustinInMN]

When we play hold'em we self deal. When we play mix games, I deal from the center but rotate the shuffle and we use two decks. Whichever deck is out of play is shuffled by the button. If I am the button, I will nominate whoever won the last pot.

I don't get too worked up about the order of riffles and boxes. If you want to make a rule banning the overhand, that's fine. But as long as the shuffler and the cutter are different, and the cut is the last thing before cards are dealt, it's hard to "stack the deck."

 

[Jake14mw]

There's no reason you should have to deal all of the time. Just have everyone self deal. You may have to put up with some crappy shuffling or dealing for a while, but most guys simply don't care and it will get better. As long as the cards get mixed and nobody sees cards nobody cares whether it's a riffle or ruffles potato chips.

 

[JustinInMN]

There's no reason you should have to deal all of the time. Just have everyone self deal. You may have to put up with some crappy shuffling or dealing for a while, but most guys simply don't care and it will get better. As long as the cards get mixed and nobody sees cards nobody cares whether it's a riffle or ruffles potato chips.

The reason I do it is that it makes players a little more comfortable stretching into unknown games if they don't have to worry about dealing it. It cuts down on errors. Everyone has the skill to shuffle reasonably well, so I just rotate that.

 

[Jake14mw]

The reason I do it is that it makes players a little more comfortable stretching into unknown games if they don't have to worry about dealing it. It cuts down on errors. Everyone has the skill to shuffle reasonably well, so I just rotate that.

That makes sense, sorry I was really directing the comment at the OP. He was saying that he wasn't able to socialize because he had to deal most of the time, and that they can't shuffle effectively.

 

[JustinInMN]

That makes sense, sorry I was really directing the comment at the OP. He was saying that he wasn't able to socialize because he had to deal most of the time, and that they can't shuffle effectively.

That makes sense, I guess I am directing my remarks at the OP on the order of go ahead and outsource the shuffling to get some relief . Even if it's not a perfect casino shuffle so long as different players are cutting and shuffling, it's hard to stack the deck.

 

[ekricket]

That makes sense, I guess I am directing my remarks at the OP on the order of go ahead and outsource the shuffling to get some relief . Even if it's not a perfect casino shuffle so long as different players are cutting and shuffling, it's hard to stack the deck.

Lol stacking the deck. I hear this a lot but thinking through it some

The number of people in the world that can do any card mechanics is small
The chance that they are in your game is small
If it’s pass the deal, they can only stack the deck for one hand per orbit

I think that if every time you got a hand and you flashed one of your cards to a random player at the table every hand, it wouldn’t change a thing at the end of the night. I think typically the “advantage” is really a disadvantage. You start making decisions based on something else besides fundamentals. And whether it’s Gematria or seeing a random card, anytime you deviate from fundamentals it’s an issue.

 

[MeridianFC]

It is not hard to learn to shuffle properly. As long as you have a proper surface the casino shuffle is dead easy. Teach these simpletons.

As far as the issue about about a less skillful dealer flashing cards that has to be pointed out no matter what. If I can notice it so can someone else.

 

[JustinInMN]

Lol stacking the deck. I hear this a lot but thinking through it some

The number of people in the world that can do any card mechanics is small
The chance that they are in your game is small
If it’s pass the deal, they can only stack the deck for one hand per orbit

FWIW, I said nothing contrary to that. I whole-heartedly agree mechanics are rare. I am just pointing out that so long as the person shuffling is not cutting the deck, that defeats most "stacking the deck" moves. And taking this one measure makes the game unattractive to mechanics in the first place.

I also agree that a casino-perfect shuffle is also overrated and doesn't need to be expected from everyone that shuffles. A few riffles, an occasional wash, a box cut, in some order is fine.

 

[upNdown]

I was nervous before my first meetup, wanted to be a good guest. Had no idea what to expect as I never got to play. I looked up on this forum the proper way to shuffle. Saw the preferred method with riffles and such. Grabbed a deck, practiced, thought oh yeah I’ll be perfectly fine.

Took 5 minutes.

That’s funny, that’s exactly why I learned how to shuffle properly - I was going to a meet up and didn’t want to look like the guy who didn’t know what he was doing. YouTube and practice - easy peasy.

But that’s for PCF. At my game I don’t care and I certainly don’t expect my players to shuffle any particular way. Oh no, somebody box-shuffled and you could see some of the cards? I mean if you can follow them through the cut and the deal, more power to you. I’m betting it never happens. And for what it’s worth, casino dealers flash cards while shuffling all the time. If they were THAT good, they probably wouldn’t be stuck dealing the cheapass stakes I play.

OP, just let the players deal. Lighten up. Things will never be perfect and you’ll always be there at the table to make corrections as necessary. What’s the saying, something like don’t ignore good enough in search of perfect? You’re there to have fun, so have fun.
AND USE TWO DECKS!

 

[CantSpellPoker]

This is fair and legitimate question, even though I'm not sure there's a perfect answer, other than having a dedicated dealer brought in from the outside, which isn't exactly typical.

I really appreciate a game being "well-dealt," if you will, which is one of the many reasons I love playing at @Irish place. He is the steady dealer, as long as we're limited to one table, and he keeps everything moving, organized, professional, etc... When we move to 2+ tables, we go to self-dealt so that the first table doesn't have the advantage of using the shuffle machine that's installed in Table #1, but that's where things slow down. It's not like that bothers me or is a big deal, but there is a noticeable difference.

This past weekend, I was at Table #2, and I actually made it a point to have everyone shift seats so that I ended up in the center so I could deal every hand. I think you'll find that most guys prefer not to be involved in dealing, given the choice, and when you get people at the ends of the table having to stand up, flipping cards over by accident from flinging them too aggressively, etc., I feel that it's better for the game if you have someone keep it moving by steady dealing, as long as they're willing and capable.

I also am a bit OCD when it comes to dealing hold 'em, i.e. I make sure the community cards are straight, aligned, etc.. it kind of bothers me when people just haphazardly flip over the community cards and toss them into the middle, or when they allow the community cards to blend in with the pot. But that's just a me problem, and it's another reason I don't mind dealing.

Yes, it can impact your ability to socialize, etc. if you're always shuffling/dealing. To that, I would say a couple things. One, just take your time and enjoy yourself. Nobody cares how quickly you're doing the job, most are probably thrilled that they're not having to do it themselves. Second, have other people at least shuffle for you. Again, I doubt anyone cares how the shuffling gets done, as long as it gets done. I assume the cards are getting cut before dealing, anyway. If you have someone peeking and following exposed cards in your home game, congratulations to them for being a loser.

 

[MrCatPants]

I all-time-deal, and we have the button shuffle. Two decks in play at all times. This has been our best system to keep the game moving, keep consistency - but yes, as a dealer, as the "Action is on you, Biff" person, you get less chance to socialize. Hope you really like poker.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

I all-time-deal, and we have the button shuffle. Two decks in play at all times. This has been our best system to keep the game moving, keep consistency - but yes, as a dealer, as the "Action is on you, Biff" person, you get less chance to socialize. Hope you really like poker.

This is a much more concise version of what I wanted to advise above

 

[QuiQuog]

I brought cards and chips to a family gathering for a micro stakes cash game. Self dealt and they all tried to use the cut card, but nobody could see the need for it. Father-in-law flat out refused to use it and flashed the bottom non stop, along with many of the cards being dealt. He's the cantankerous sort. He only lowered the cards when I started calling the cards he was dealing. Eventually I just gave in and enjoyed the gathering.

 

[nbrun]

This is fair and legitimate question, even though I'm not sure there's a perfect answer, other than having a dedicated dealer brought in from the outside, which isn't exactly typical.

I really appreciate a game being "well-dealt," if you will, which is one of the many reasons I love playing at @Irish place. He is the steady dealer, as long as we're limited to one table, and he keeps everything moving, organized, professional, etc... When we move to 2+ tables, we go to self-dealt so that the first table doesn't have the advantage of using the shuffle machine that's installed in Table #1, but that's where things slow down. It's not like that bothers me or is a big deal, but there is a noticeable difference.

This past weekend, I was at Table #2, and I actually made it a point to have everyone shift seats so that I ended up in the center so I could deal every hand. I think you'll find that most guys prefer not to be involved in dealing, given the choice, and when you get people at the ends of the table having to stand up, flipping cards over by accident from flinging them too aggressively, etc., I feel that it's better for the game if you have someone keep it moving by steady dealing, as long as they're willing and capable.

I also am a bit OCD when it comes to dealing hold 'em, i.e. I make sure the community cards are straight, aligned, etc.. it kind of bothers me when people just haphazardly flip over the community cards and toss them into the middle, or when they allow the community cards to blend in with the pot. But that's just a me problem, and it's another reason I don't mind dealing.

Yes, it can impact your ability to socialize, etc. if you're always shuffling/dealing. To that, I would say a couple things. One, just take your time and enjoy yourself. Nobody cares how quickly you're doing the job, most are probably thrilled that they're not having to do it themselves. Second, have other people at least shuffle for you. Again, I doubt anyone cares how the shuffling gets done, as long as it gets done. I assume the cards are getting cut before dealing, anyway. If you have someone peeking and following exposed cards in your home game, congratulations to them for being a loser.

Thanks for the great response;

Theres a few things I take away from this.

1) Slow my dealing down. I am literally always rushing into the next hand, because thats what I would like a dealer to do.. but the guys that play here recreationally care more about not dealing than the hands per hour! (Thanks, that was a great tip)

2) It seems I am a bit OCD as well when it comes to dealing... watching people not clean up bets prior to dealing the turn, etc.. not mucking the cards into a muck pile... etc. Maybe i should value my dealing a bit more in terms of my overall enjoyment of the night haha.

I do have other people shuffle the other deck for me during hands and then I finally cut it when I am ready to deal it. Maybe I should lighten up a bit and again, if people are tracking exposed cards, go somewhere where you will win real money i guess.

Thanks everyone for their input!

 

[junkandjunk]

I shake my head internally, and offer to leave the topper with the guy running the tourney. They use it next week, and the week after. Then there's 2 or 3 of them being used at that game. Then every bar game is using them.

There was a few bar games where the paper cards were so bad I ended up donating 4 decks to each venue.
Not only were they already used cards from the casino but they were never ever changed.

it's hard to stack the deck.

TBH even if someone does manage to do it, having someone else cut effectively negates it.
The bigger issue is flashed cards.

As long as you have a proper surface the casino shuffle is dead easy.

But unless I built the table with 1/2" closed cell or I'm playing with someone on here, who actually has a proper surface?
The absolute best case I've ever that wasn't my equipment was someone that bought one of those fancy tables and that had some 1/16th open cell.
That was best case. Most everyone else has at least a topper but in most cases those aren't really any better because they're generally just cloth stapled to particle board with no padding.
It basically just gets worse from here.

 

[junkandjunk]

Maybe I'm just used to it now, but I'm usually right in there in terms of socializing. I'm basically on autopilot.
I had a friend question me as to whether or not dealing affects my game because there's so many other things that are going on in my head vs just playing if someone else is dealing. I thought about it and said no because I was confident in my game and know my dealing is basically automatic.

As for the social aspect, I typically just point to whoever's turn it is. I will verbalize most bets too (especially after a raise) but at the end of the day conversation and socializing basically come first.

 

[merkong]

I full-time deal our twice weekly cash game. I socialize. But I’m also the dealer and I spread the game. You’ll get used to it.