Clusterf!ck bomb pot (1 Viewer)

Taghkanic

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Curious about how others would handle this as the dealer, the host, and/or as the players in the hand.

Private game with a dealer.

Double board Omaha bomb pot.

Two players get it all in on the turn.

They want to run it twice (i.e. four boards total) and the house allows it.

The dealer runs two rivers on each board, but weirdly places the rivers in line with the two boards, making two long rows (as if there were “oceans,” i.e. two six card boards instead of four regular ones).

Player A says he scoops, and turns over his hand.

Player Z looks confused, and turns over his hand, and says “Wait, don’t I win one board?”

Multiple players start shouting that no, no A scoops. The dealer looks lost and pushes the pot to A.

Dealer starts dealing the next hand. It finishes and a second new hand gets dealt.

Now Z belatedly chimes back in again: “Wait, I should have gotten a quarter of that bomb pot. I won the second board.”

Action on the new hand stops and a long debate ensues. The table and dealer agree that the bomb pot result was misread. The dealer tells Player A to give Z a quarter of the previous pot.

Player A protests and says, “That’s B.S., you can’t go back two hands like that.”

Player Z initially says, “But I showed my hand and said I won one of the four boards, what more can I do there with all of you shouting that he scooped?”

But when A gets testy Z says, “Forget it, whatever.” A keeps the full pot and play resumes

Dealer says “That was my bad,” and offers to give Z half of what he shorted him out of his own pocket at the end of the night.

Z says nothing and still looks pissed.

About an hour later Z stacks A, and tells the dealer “You don’t owe me anything now, I got it back from him anyway.”
 
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The first thing that comes to mind is that if Z was actually going to take the dealer’s offer to pay the difference personally, Z sucks.

And a further thought. A probably sucks too. Whether or not you can go back and fix a screwed up pot, in a home game you definitely do. In a private game? I dunno, I don’t have much experience there. But I’ve heard you want to bend over backward to take care of the whales and the fishes. So I guess A is either a whale, a fish, or a dummy?
 
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World Series Of Poker GIF by Endless Poetry
 
This is one of those situations where everyone is right, and everyone is wrong.

Z is right that if he tabled his cards and he should have won at least one of the boards that he is owed a quarter of the pot. Z is also wrong in letting play continue without forcing the issue while the cards were still on the table.

A is right that once the dealer pushed him the pot and everyone moved on that you can't "go back" and re-interpret it. Unlike a casino, where the house can review the video tape, any 'going back' would be based on folks recollection of the hand (and thus opens up confusion and misremembering). A is also wrong, from an etiquette standpoint. While technically he may have won the pot, if he in fact wasn't entitled to it and it was a mix-up, the right thing to do is to give a quarter of the pot (especially since he would have still made money from the hand). While A is not required to do so, it's a bit of a dick move if A agrees that Z should have won it, but won't give it up since play moved on already.

Dealer was wrong in pushing the pot to A without thoroughly going over each board. Dealer is also right in offering to make the player whole, since it was his mistake. Agreed that Z would be wrong in accepting that, but the offer from the Dealer was the right thing to do.
 
It is stupid to run multiple times on a double board game. Pot is already being split once (at least) most likely, why create even more confusion having multiple rivers on multiple boards?

Host/dealer should have slowed everything down to make sure it was done properly, even going so far as to deal the first board and determining who wins what from it before dealing the second boards rivers.

There should never be a rush to get the hand resolved in these crazy situations. Slow it down, get it right.
 
Dealer take:
I've never run two boards twice. That is nonsense. And so is placing the cards side by side. I am separating the two boards far enough that I can do it right. Once the hands are tabled...STFU!!! Seriously...why do players feel the need to yell out hands...even the ones not in the hand!? :rolleyes: You will never catch me push any part of a pot to a player until I have read all hands and deliberately killed the losers...even if both players pull their chips back and say "it's a chop". If people start yelling, I will ask them to stop, and wait until they are finished. before I even start.
As for "not going bacK", ummm...what? If everyone realizes there was a mistake, you need to make it right. I would definitely never want to keep any part of a pot that shouldn't have been mine, and I don't want to play with anyone who would.
 
As for "not going bacK", ummm...what? If everyone realizes there was a mistake, you need to make it right. I would definitely never want to keep any part of a pot that shouldn't have been mine, and I don't want to play with anyone who would.

What if it was hours later?
 
* Yes, silly to run it twice on a double board bomb pot.

* I don’t think a dealer should ever offer money on the side to a player even if it seems fair or right. Too many ways for that to become a problem.

* Technically I do agree that once you’re into a new hand it is too late. But I think A should have given the 1/4 over once he realized what happened, if only for the sake of getting along in a private game.

* While Z should have insisted that the boards be read more carefully before they moved on, Z’s hand was tabled (and he did question the result) which put it on the dealer to slow down and double check. It seemed like the crowd overwhelmed both.
 
I erased my preamble. Long story short, ESH (everyone's shitty here).

But to speak to your original question
Curious about how others would handle this as the dealer, the host, and/or as the players in the hand.
As the dealer it simply wouldn't happen as we wouldn't move on from the hand unless it's 100% resolved and agreed upon. It's not a guess, there's a solution with all cards turned up as to who won. IF this somehow happened where someone came back 2 hands later, sorry Bob, we all looked at the boards, the hands, and everyone including you agreed it was a scoop. Actions on you.

As the host, I would absolutely stop play on the boards and have everyone agree before moving forward. But, if this did happen, I would nip it in the bud, tell everyone to shut the fuck up and play, tell the dealer he's not giving up shit out of his pocket, and I'd pay out Z in cash out of my pocket so that chips on the table match the bank and everyone is whole. Anyone complains, again, stfu and have fun.

As a player, I've now attended enough home games that are shit shows where host refuses to make rulings or get involved in anything. I'm no longer quiet and have found my voice, I would absolutely stop play, and if noone else is going to take control tell the table to stfu and here's the winner of each board. Does anyone dispute or see anything we're missing? If several hands or hours later there is an issue, that part I don't feel obligation or authority to speak on - that's on the involved players and house. Dependent on how it's resolved, I may not feel super confident in returning to said private game.
 
P.S. I think bomb pots are unnecessary unless you need a gimmick to get gambly players in. But even strong players seem to want them.
 
Did Player Z even attempt to make the case for why he won one board? He asks what more he could do with everyone shouting at him that he was wrong, but he could have at least read the supposed winning hand out loud.
 
Z did call out what he thought won one of the four boards (a set). The table and the dealer kept saying A had a straight (he did, but on a different board).

Z said he thought he must have misread the hand, since there were so many cards in play, and everyone was so insistent, so let it go. But then the discussion during the next hand caused him to reassert it, realizing he had been right.
 
Z did call out what he thought won one of the four boards (a set). The table and the dealer kept saying A had a straight (he did, but on a different board).

Z said he thought he must have misread the hand, since there were so many cards in play, and everyone was so insistent, so let it go. But then the discussion during the next hand caused him to reassert it, realizing he had been right.
Player A isn’t getting an invite back for a self reflection timeout at minimal 2+ games
 
Was the host and the dealer the same person, or 2 different people?

EVERY time there is a discrepancy on a board, it is the host's job to make a ruling, and that is only after the dealer declares he/she needs a ruling (a dedicated dealer.... self-dealt automatically defaults to a host ruling).

Where was the host when the players started shouting and the dealer ruled on the hand?

Players, dealers, humans all make mistakes, but the person responsible for making the ruling is once again, the host.

Therefore, I don't blame player A or Z or B,C,D,X,Y.... I think the dealer should have stopped all players and either asked for one player to explain the boards, or ask the host to explain the boards, or explain the boards himself, and then get validation from the players so that everyone moves forward on the same page.

There's never a need at a home game to make a quick ruling. Take your time, get it right once, ensure everyone is good, and move on.
 
We had a double board bomb pot that wasn't this confusing, but the payout was wrong. It was a 3-way pot, with one short stack already all in, and the two bigger stacks going all in on the river for about $280 each. We quartered the main pot. Player A got quartered, and only kept 70 of his stack, and gave the rest to Player B. It was bugging me all night, and the next morning I texted B, and explained why he should give B the extra $70. He agreed and gave him the money the next time we played. No worries. But we have a very friendly group of maybe 12-15 regs.
 
Adding to the cluster: The host was in the hand — Z.

As such made it difficult for Z to jump in and rule.

(What is the etiquette for hosts ruling on their own hand?)
 
(What is the etiquette for hosts ruling on their own hand?)
Host picks the smartest poker guy at the table who isn’t involved in the hand and asks for a ruling.

But I’m surprised to hear Z was the host. The guy who’s too timid to speak up on his own behalf to stop the dealer when he knows he’s won one board - THAT guy’s the host?
 
Host picks the smartest poker guy at the table who isn’t involved in the hand and asks for a ruling.

But I’m surprised to hear Z was the host. The guy who’s too timid to speak up on his own behalf to stop the dealer when he knows he’s won one board - THAT guy’s the host?

Host tends to trust his dealer, isn’t there to fight with his players, boards are a mess… Not so strange really.
 
• Z said…. Let me cook…. And dialed in a guy named A…. Waited for his opportunity and felted his new table target.

• Z is the host, he should have hit the pause button and got things sorted.

• The host ALWAYS rules. If you can’t trust the host to rule, even against himself, don’t play there.
 
There's a seemingly subtle but significant difference between "tends to trust his dealer" and "has designated his dealer to be the floor". If the latter, then the host needs to either contest the pot while the cards are still in a state for it to be reasonably contested or accept the outcome of the hand.

(I agree with @louBdub's last point above — ideally there should be zero overlap between players who attend a game in which the host plays and players who don't trust the host to rule against himself. If they don't trust the host, then they shouldn't trust anyone designated by the host!)
 
Curious about how others would handle this as the dealer, the host, and/or as the players in the hand.
As the dealer, I'm going to profusely apologize for my error. It's admirable that the dealer in your game offered to make the player whole - I don't think I would have done that.

As the host, I'm going to rule that since the hand has been completed and the pot has been awarded, it remains as stands. I think this is consistent with what you would find in a casino. I would then offer to (depending on the amount) make the player at least partially whole out of the house fee, which is a small 'rake'* to cover expenses.

*it usually works out to around $100 - $150 over the course of the night to cover dinner, alcohol, etc.

As the player who received the entire pot, I would absolutely give the other player his share without hesitation. I'd do that in a casino too for that matter. As would any of the players in my game.

As the 'wronged' player, I wouldn't have taken the table's word for it in the first place but if I had, I'd probably just keep my mouth shut and move on.
 
What if it was hours later?
That's tough. If I'm involved, I guess it's how well i can remember at that point. I don't necessarily trust what "the table" says.
I saw a situation recently where a player said the button was wrong coming back from break. Everyone at the table told him he was wrong, and they were all so positive. But after video review, the player was right.
 
That's tough. If I'm involved, I guess it's how well i can remember at that point. I don't necessarily trust what "the table" says.
I saw a situation recently where a player said the button was wrong coming back from break. Everyone at the table told him he was wrong, and they were all so positive. But after video review, the player was right.
The worst witness is an eye witness.

Since this is a friendly game you don’t need a steadfast rule how long can you wait. But I’d say 2 hands. Maybe 3 etc.

30 minutes pass by it’s too late imho.
 

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